Unique/ legendary titles through demanding quests

Pls consider to include titles that are rewarded to players through demanding quest lines and provide them with stats or skills or both depending on the difficulty.

I.E. A unique quest with a water tribe, generated after fulfilling some criteria, may reward you with the title "Anuka water tribe's benefactor" and provide you with +5%breathing time underwater.

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Vhaeyne

I hate that idea so much.

I don't even want achievement/quest titles in the game because it is a lame normie system. Now you want to give them stats/skills too?

This crap plays out a few ways, and they are all stupid.
1: One title is clearly the best and becomes mandatory chore.
2: Titles are stackable, and they all become a mandatory chore.
3. Titles are not very effective, and no one does them.

Number 3 is clearly the best case scenario, but still I don't want this crap in the game.
It just sounds like you want a tedious collect-a-thon.
I much prefer the titles being limited to the node government system.

To be clear. I don't hate you. I hate your idea.

Noaani

I'm not a fan of the idea either.

If there was a water breathing title, everyone doing underwater content would be using it. If you are in a group or raid, you would all use the same title because of course you would.

Then if you leave the water and get on your mount to get to a location that has the next piece of content you want to do, you would all swap to the title that increases mount speed, then when you get to the content you want to do, you would change title again to the one that is best for that task - because again, of course you would.

All up, it leaves me asking what the point of it all is. If titles are persistently available, it will be expected that players will get them - even if they require some effort.

If Ashes is to have titles, those titles should be things like "defender of [town]" awarded after successfully defended a siege of a town, but that title should only be available le to that player until that node loses a siege next.

Or you could have "[monster coin boss] vanquisher" if you are a part of successfully preventing damage on a node by the boss in question.

Basically, titles should be things that you cant just decide to do out and get one day. They should be the culmination of the efforts of many people.

If they are something you can just go out and quest for, they are essentially meaningless and may as well not exist.

Also, they should never provide a benefit to the player. There is no logical connection between a title and a boon. The actions you perform to gain a title may also grant you a boon, but that boon should not be tied to that title.

Talents

Never been a fan of titles giving buffs. Titles should be cosmetic. I don't want to have to use a certain title because it gives the best stats if I hate the title.

Everdark

If titles were implemented as they typically are - achieved via questline or specific achievements - it becomes a chore and usually the majority of players all end up selecting one title as the "best" while other titles fall by the way side. I don't like this idea, particularly if you consider adding buffs to the titles.

That said, an alternative might be have titles based on the node system, based on cities/metropolis, and religion. If each religion, node, or city has a limited number of titles at any given time (maybe that number increases as the city or node progresses) it prevents one title being chased specifically, as only one, or a limited number of people may hold it for that specific node or city.

These titles could be dynamic, switching from player to player based on whatever predetermined variables are desired for that title. IE. Most caravan defense encounters participated in = City Guardian, or something to that effect. Most resources contributed to city treasury = The Generous. This type of system creates soft friction within a node or city as players compete with other players for the titles. Cities can be destroyed and node progress regressed which could reset things and keep things dynamic, preventing a few players from always dominating.

Not sure those titles should apply buffs. But if you keep the number of titles out in the world fairly small, it gives people something to chase without being game breaking.

Thoughts?

Damokles

I like the AION approach to Titls tbh. All of them give some small extra boost fitting to the type and flavour of the title.

Caeryl

I’m in favor of titles granting small bonuses, gives people a reason to seek them out. The 5% bonus is never going to be “mandatory” unless IS decides to make it mandatory to have that tiny bonus, which is can’t see happening in any universe.

Jamation

The first ever MMO I played was called Fiesta. Originally the titles were just a fun collection and way to show off the random things you'd done which I loved. I used to collect a ton of flower petals (I don't even remember why it truly was random) but I had a title I loved for it.
Later I decided to revisit the game and found that they decided to give stat boosts to these titles. My favorite title I had worn since I was a child didn't have stats that benefitted my class.

I've always loved titles, the random or goofy ones, especially when most people have them hidden anyways, so you know it's something just for you. I detest when those titles are then given any form other than aesthetic because it turns it into another system to worry about. Because regardless of how small the boost is the more competitive groups you're with, the more they'll demand certain things.

Some things should just be for fun or flare rather than optimization.

Noaani

Caeryl wrote: »

I’m in favor of titles granting small bonuses, gives people a reason to seek them out. The 5% bonus is never going to be “mandatory” unless IS decides to make it mandatory to have that tiny bonus, which is can’t see happening in any universe.

5% towards some random thing is about as powerful as any one given item.

We have cosmetic slots so that we can use the item we want without needing to be tied to the appearance of said item.

If titles are as powerful as any given item, the by rights we should also then have a cosmetic title slot, so players can use the title they want the effect from, but without it impacting the look/feel they are trying to project with their character.

If it gets to this point - which by rights it should - I fail to see the point on the whole title system.

LewL

I think titles as far as "Major", "Leader of Castle Owning Guild" and the Kickstarter titles, maybe some epic stuff like if you initiated a successful node siege on a metropolis "Destroyer of Metropolis" but that's about it,
Definitely NOT a fan of any bonus or too many titles for every little accomplishment. If titles, they should mean something and be handed out like the flying mounds - very limited.

CosmicBlacksmith

Firstly it provides motive for people to do something first. As subsequent triggers of the same quest may not provide the title award anymore, that's why I said unique.

Secondly providing such titles through quests, rewards players who empathize with NPCs and provides extra content for them as well as makes the game feel more interactive and that what you do even on a whim has an impact.

IE. Providing charity to an orphanage continuously or in big amounts whithout there being a reason to do so, can trigger a unique optional quest requiring you to spend even more money on it whithout there being a particular reward description. Upon completion you get nothing, only that the kids clothes or shoes change to better quality which u can feel proud about.
Now if there was a quest available from the orphans before all this, for the above player the available quest will be altered.
Original quest: "Kid in need" where you could spare him some bread.
Altered quest available only to the above player: "Find Timmy a teacher" Timmy wants to learn logistics so that the orphanage always has money.
Now if you can get a trader, through some quest or because you always buy from him even though his prices are extremely high, to favour you, he will have the option to accept Timmy as an apprentice. Again the trader favouring you will require you to exhaust interactions with him without any particular reward in sight.

The final reward of all this being the title "Orphan care taker" and wherever you are if there is an orphan there it will recognise your contribution and when you interact with it, it will provide you with live info of where you can buy a product for the lowest price in his local town.

Now was it worth it to do all that and spend all that money just to get that? Definitely not!
BUT! You now get greeted by orphans wherever you go and it is only you! Does it feel good? Yes!
This quest was generated only at that orphanage, not all orphanages can trigger it, as there is only one Timmy.
Can others get this quest? No! It was unique.
Can others get this title or function from NPCs? Probably! Through other NPCs they have benefited in a similar way they would receive a similar title effect.
Can everybody get such a title effect? No! They are limited.

* Don't look a the tree... 5% breath boost or what I described above. Obviously there might be such a store system in place available for all... Or there might not even be orphans...
* Look at the forest!

Noaani

So that post took me from not liking the suggestion for a reward all the way to not liking the content type the suggest is asking for.

CosmicBlacksmith wrote: »

Look at the forest!

Your forest appears to be rewarding players for dumb luck.

Let's look at your orphanage situation above.

First of all, let's ignore the fact that empathizing with fictional NPC's to the point where you are willing to spend time to help them out is probably a named condition that shouldn't be encouraged.

Second is the fact that since us adventurers are the first people on Verra (other than Tulnar) for eons, there shouldn't be children around with which to populate an orphanage - at least not for a while.

That out of the way, let's imagine you and I are both donating to that orphanage. I am a little ahead of you, and as such I am getting all of the titles.

Now, after a while, the amount the two of us have donated would be very similar, yet because I was an hour or a day ahead of you, I have those titles to show for it, and you have nothing.

Even if you don't know about the titles, this is bad game design.

While it is great having unique rewards for people that do a thing first, the thing that is rewarded in this manner needs to be a known task. Reward the first player to open a dungeon, to kill an enemy, to craft an item, these are all great, because they are tasks that the players know they should be doing.

Rewarding players for an arbitrary act (which is what your suggestion is, if there is no apparent reason to donate) is just odd. Next thing you know, you'll have players running around looking to see if there is an arbitrary reward for running anti-clockwise around a specific tree 47 times in a row. Worse than that, you would have all of these mechanics like being able to donate to the orphanage that are in the game, that players know reward titles and so participate in so that they can get a title, to only then be pissed off at the game for not giving them that title.

This is the sort of system that for every one person that gets a title, 100 others will be upset. It doesn't seem like even a remotely good idea to me.

Ravudha

I like the idea as long as:

- there's no attached bonuses
- the quest is somehow restricted and only doable by a very small percentage of players - e.g. a time-sensitive event or hidden quest players really need to investigate to discover
- the quest is an actual test of skill, whether it be combat, deduction of lore-related dialogue, or something else
- the title is not advertised as a reward; it is a surprise after completing the quest and fitting for the context of the quest

CosmicBlacksmith

@Noaani
No comment.....
Sad really...

Noaani

Ravudha wrote: »

I like the idea as long as:

- there's no attached bonuses
- the quest is somehow restricted and only doable by a very small percentage of players - e.g. a time-sensitive event or hidden quest players really need to investigate to discover
- the quest is an actual test of skill, whether it be combat, deduction of lore-related dialogue, or something else
- the title is not advertised as a reward; it is a surprise after completing the quest and fitting for the context of the quest

I can personally see some of these as good suggestions.

One thing I do have a problem with though, is "hidden" content that is also temporary. To me, content can be neither of these two things, or one of these two things. It should never be both of them, imo.

To me, if content is hidden and I first hear about it a decade after the fact, I should be able to go and find it to run that piece of content (though I am unsure how that will work in Ashes dynamic world - we have no idea of the systems and mechanics used for longer quests as yet).

The other side of that is that it is fine if there is content that is only available for a few days, weeks or months. Most games have some sort of event that fits in to this.

The key here is that players should know about it, so that they are able to do that content while it is available - again assuming they wish to.

Further, I am absolutely fine with giving players a small additional reward for being the first to do a thing - and to me, that is where titles should fit in. A title saying you are "Slayer of [boss]" if you were in the first 100 people world wide to kill that boss seems fitting for this purpose.

The trick with these things is that the rewards need to be for things that players were attempting to do anyway, rather than rewards for arbitrary things.

Noaani

CosmicBlacksmith wrote: »

No comment.....
Sad really...

A comment to say no comment?

I mean, feel free to tell me where I am wrong, or where you disagree with me.

Jamation

Taking aside the fact that the amount of work that'd have to go into a system, like the orphanage suggestion, would be staggering, it would need to be less arbitrary.

Although I personally see nothing wrong with roleplaying with NPC's, hell when I played BDO I liked getting a few of my favorite NPC's relationship levels past the max just cause, I don't think I could get behind a system that rewards that on a whim.

Hidden titles in and of itself wouldn't be terrible, and it might not be obvious you'll get a title if it's a quest chain, but I think it should be obvious that you're doing something.

Let's use a system that'll already be in the game instead so an entire system wouldn't need to be developed, like an apartment building. The apartment's already serve a functional value to a town, allowing players housing units, so it wouldn't stick out as odd for being in a town. Now let's say the NPC who operates the apartment has the usual dialogue options to allow players to purchase an apartment, but they also have a "Talk" option.
After X amount of times talking to this NPC over X unique days slowly telling the player a story about his love life the player could be allowed to see unique dialogue that could say something like "If only I had a blue rose, I could propose to Mary Beth(or X random NPC that's in town). But I can't leave my post and they only grow in the snow mountains!" Player gets said item, with it in their inventory talking to the NPC prompts new dialogue asking for it, and player can give it to them. This could result in the player receiving the "matchmaker" title.
However, to make this unique, but not unattainable this could be replicated with various NPC's across the world all supplying the same Matchmaker title, and if need be the description can provide the flavor text of which NPC's the player hooked up.

It would make for an optional/secret quest, but after discovery players could post or talk about it if they wanted and it could occasionally be repeated, but be limited based on single NPC's that are interested in someone. Hell, depending on if NPC names are repeated after a siege wipes a node perhaps it could even be repeated in the same node but with different NPC names.

However, as this would be "secret" it could be implemented at any time as the amount of ideas, implementation, and design for these things to work would be more than necessary to get the game up and running.

Even with all of that I still don't think I could support it having any value other than bragging rights.

ariatras

Not a big fan of achievement and things like that. Much less when they boost stats. The only title available should be "Mayor" a title you'll evidently lose when you cease becoming one.

Ravudha

Noaani wrote: »

Ravudha wrote: »

I like the idea as long as:

- there's no attached bonuses
- the quest is somehow restricted and only doable by a very small percentage of players - e.g. a time-sensitive event or hidden quest players really need to investigate to discover
- the quest is an actual test of skill, whether it be combat, deduction of lore-related dialogue, or something else
- the title is not advertised as a reward; it is a surprise after completing the quest and fitting for the context of the quest

I can personally see some of these as good suggestions.

One thing I do have a problem with though, is "hidden" content that is also temporary. To me, content can be neither of these two things, or one of these two things. It should never be both of them, imo.

Yeah I meant only the event would be time-sensitive, not the quest.

Ganknasty

Unique and hard to earn Titles, yes. Stats or buffs from them a big NO PLEASE.

OnlyOne

I would agree with many other above, I prefer cosmetic titles only without the buffs or stats. Then it just feels like a chore to complete.

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