My predictions on AoC

The mmo players from the 90’s and the “immersion elitists” are going to kill this game. “Animations don’t seem realistic” “spells are too much”. Boring bland combat will kill this game before it even arrives. Pantheon to me has old boring bland combat and there is no real hype for that game. I’m playing a fantasy game with elves dwarves orcs and dragons and things of that nature, if my character isn’t doing some legolas killing an elephont type stuff then it’s going to kill my immersion. Some of you guys and gals who come on her complaining about literal pre alpha and place holder affects are pushing people away from this game!! Whatever happened to letting the artist create art and people enjoying it? Too many people want to hold the artists hand while he paints... if you want to do that then become an artist or wait till atleast alpha starts my gosh.

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Noaani

Daedrik45 wrote: »

lol I really just want people to relax and wait for alpha

Then why post a thread?

That is what we were doing.

If your intention with this thread was to tell us all to wait for Alpha, you basically would have been looking at a group of people waiting for alpha and yelled out "HEY, YOU GUYS! I JUST WANTED TO SAY, YOU SHOULD ALL WAIT FOR ALPHA! NOW CARRY ON WITH WHAT YOU WERE DOING, WHICH WAS WAITING FOR ALPHA." (caps/bold for obvious reasons).

Daedrik45

I’ve missed you Noani... still white knighting for the raid logs and details addon?

Noaani

Daedrik45 wrote: »

I’ve missed you Noani... still white knighting for the raid logs and details addon?

I don't think you understand what an addon is.

I never asked for an addon, I don't want them, I don't like them.

Blandmarrow

Wandering Mist wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Wandering Mist wrote: »

You can absolutely have interesting and engaging combat without over the top animations, so I'm not exactly sure what you're going with here.

I'm also not quite sure of the OPs direction BUT I was following Pantheon for a time and agree with the assessment it looked boring. I watched them kill mobs for 10 mins and was ready to move on.

Now if the intention was to draw a line between Pantheon and AoC, I completely disagree. AoCs combat looks engaging and interesting even at this stage in development. It can only get better as they tune and refine.

You know, thinking about it a bit more I believe that some people maybe put too much emphasis on the combat. Yes combat is important as you do a lot of it in an mmorpg, but to me, the main draw of an mmorpg isn't the combat, it's the world building and social interaction. That is where an mmorpg needs to truly shine. If you want super amazing spectacular combat, go play something like Devil May Cry 5 or Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order. A pure single player game just has so many more options when it comes to combat than an mmorpg does.

The main draw of most MMOs have been the combat so far because it has been among the only ways you interact with the world in a meaningful way. Ashes certainly are trying to create more meaningful ways to interact with the world but in the end, the best way to progress and do anything meaningful (outside of RP) have always been combat and probably always will be.

Vhaeyne

Boring bland combat will kill a MMO? Really?

Have you seen combat in:
-Lineage 1
-Lineage 2
-EVE Online
-Star Wars Galaxies
-Dark Fall 1
-FFXI
-Ultima Online

All of these games are legendary yet there combat and combat animations are lacking. What makes these games good are the progression systems, economy, and community. Steven has stated many times that he is not trying to make a WOW killer.

(A lot of the systems in Lineage 2 were based around a concept that got lost today in mmorpgs, and that's risk versus reward. You know this idea that the more you risk the greater potential reward should be present is a complete paradigm shift away from everyone's a winner, everybody gets a participation reward, and here you go, congratulations you're a player in this game; and that's boring. It gives nothing for a person to aspire to achieve something, or to feel the bite of loss when you fail. Those are the driving forces of why people want to play games and it's a reason why new games when they come out have such a short lifespan, because they are always competing with WOW. You don't have to compete with WOW. You don't have to be a WOW killer. You can focus on something that is different from a philosophical design standpoint; and I think that's just what a lot of studios today don't want to take the risk on.[8] – Steven Sharif)

Every game I listed above has the concept of risk vs reward at it's core. Not a single game on that list has amazing combat. You could maybe argue that Dark Fall's combat is amazing, but only for a subgroup of people that are into its quirks. Yes, every MMO on that list died except EVE. All of them have something in common too. Everyone of them changed to try and bring in more players. Except EVE, which has stayed mostly pure and lives.

All AOC needs to do is focus on its core design pillars. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Design_pillars
If it does that it will be fine. They may only land 4th or 5th in the top 5 MMOs, but for everyone who plays the game it will be number one. WOW had what? 12 million subs at it's peak. Now they won't even show the numbers out of shame. Estimates for WOW subs are like what? 4 million?

Success for AOC might just be 10-20 servers at full capacity. That's only 500k-1mill players. Which is fine to be honest. It don't have to appeal to everyone. It just has to appeal to those who miss what made the games that inspired AOC great. EVE, ArcheAge, Lineage2, and Star Wars Galaxies. Again this is fine. This is what I am here for.

As for holding the artists hands while he paints? The artist is stopping after every stroke to show off what the picture looks like now. Then saying "Well after a bit more shading a blending this will be good, but this is a idea of what the final picture might look like.". What is worst is that the artist is doing it in front of a community that could fill a stadium. Would you expect people to not voice their opinions?

Daedrik45

Oh ok and how many people still play those games..... real legendary

Vhaeyne

Daedrik45 wrote: »

Oh ok and how many people still play those games..... real legendary

If they were not ruined by attempting to appeal to the masses I am sure many players would still play them.

Each one is also beloved by its former players. Many of those games live on through countless private servers trying to recreate what once was. I would say that is pretty legendary.

Daedrik45

I’m not asking for over the top animations, I’m asking for people to relax and not sperg on the forums every time they release a bit of content, STEVEN LITERALLY has to say a million times “ this is pre alpha, things are being shared between other stuff bc it’s easier for them that way right now” and other things and people still act as tho the game which is in pre alpha is going to release the way it looks in the video. The only time I would even consider voicing my critiques would be in alpha 2 and 1st beta. And I’m not seeing opinions I’m seeing “ it must be this way or rawr” “OMG wtf is the mage going up in the air for”

Maezriel

Daedrik45 wrote: »

I’m not asking for over the top animations, I’m asking for people to relax and not sperg on the forums every time they release a bit of content, STEVEN LITERALLY has to say a million times “ this is pre alpha, things are being shared between other stuff bc it’s easier for them that way right now” and other things and people still act as tho the game which is in pre alpha is going to release the way it looks in the video. The only time I would even consider voicing my critiques would be in alpha 2 and 1st beta. And I’m not seeing opinions I’m seeing “ it must be this way or rawr” “OMG wtf is the mage going up in the air for”

1. Repeating yourself ad nauseum is just the nature of working online, if he wasn't up for the task then Steven shouldn't stream anything

2. Beta will be when the game is near ready to launch and thus far too late for feedback. It took a loooong time of people talking about Dwarves before Steven finally said they'd do a redesign and if we waited until Betas started rolling then there'd be a big issue

daveywavey

Yeah, I dunno how many times I've posted or have read another's post that says "Calm down, it's still in pre-Alpha. Just chill out!"

They always seem to start their yet another new thread on the exact same topic with: "I know it's still in pre-Alpha and the animations are going to change, BUT..." and then go on to complain about the animations, which they've already accepted are going to be changed.

And, the "But, they want our feedback" argument just seems a little weak when, before every single video they produce, they make a point of saying that it's still early game footage and is going to be improved.

Vhaeyne

@Daedrik45 Intrepid has stated that they understand that having a open development is a double edge sword and comes with having people critique them while they work on the game. If they did not see value in that then they would not put out so many updates, plus Steven's constant leaks. Every time they put out a video showing off the animations, I don't think they expect zero engagement from it. What are we to do? look at the animation videos like a parent looks at their child's art and say "This is nice, i'll put in on the fridge."? I have only been apart of this community since July 2020, but in that time I have seen that the DEVs resomd enough to show that they value our opinions. On reddit, discord, and here. I think they expect us to tell them what we don't like. It would be worst if we encouraged them to do things we don't like.

As for sperging? Even though I disagree with a lot of people on here. I don't assume they are yelling into their keyboards with their T.V. remotes in their bums when they voice their concerns. I don't think rocks need to float into the air when the warrior throws a chain at someone. I am not mad about it, I just think it looks a little off. Some of the threads are a little sensational like this thread, but those are the fun threads that keep me engaged with the forums, and keep AOC on my mind.

Daedrik45

I do enjoy a good conversation from time to time. You have been my favorite responder by far

Daedrik45

Omg @daveywavey you get were I’m coming from!!! You just made my night at work my man thank you so much!!!

maouw

I think we can give our feedback without trying to cancel the show.

I'm holding back this time, though, coz I barely play tank.

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