Combat Ideas

Its no secret currently combat looks well meh and that's okay as they said they would revamp combat in march, so before march wanted too list what i liked in other games and hope other people chime in on what they like.

Before getting into what id like too see, I do want too say I love that other classes can proc effects from each other, aka mage does more damage with a frost bolt if another class has frozen them with augment. adding too that id love too see the idea of extra damage or effects, too airborne targets and also skills that put targets in an airborne state. Got the idea when they were fighting that level 10 boss and they all got flung into the air.

Airborne State
Examples for skills that could put a target in an airborne state would be mages using a whirlwind like ability which simply lifts targets into the air. think dota 2 Eul's Scepter of Divinity, https://gfycat.com/favoriteacrobaticblackwidowspider
however instead of being un-targetable they can still do certain skills but would still be able too be attacked. combing this with a ranger who has Powershot which would get an added effect where if target is airborne they are knocked down and stunned for x seconds. their is many possibilities with this airborne state also jumping should count as airborne so we don't see a bunch of jump spamming in combat always looks weird.

AOE
AOE skills in my opinion should be kinda broken, while not being as much damage too a single target as your single target spells they should be at least 75% and as soon as its 2 or more enemies they are much better. the simple trade off for this is that since there's no faction based combat only pseudo, AOE skills should affect everyone. I feel this will add a layer too combat positioning and make people think when in situations that require AOE while also stopping the classic zerg gameplay in large scale battles in mmorpgs. also would love too see more AOE skills for tanks example Darius q.

Animation canceling and combos
Everyone loves combos who doesn't honestly speaking they give that sweet dopamine kick we all love when we get that combo ender with mad damage. the only reason we have combos today is because of animation canceling, no one wants too feel stuck for extra half a second watching that animation end while sitting there thinking about how they wasting their life nah we want too press the next button, now I don't think think we should go the route of having too have 1000apm just too be invited too raid but their should be some skill expression that separates casual good and great players.

really think the airborne state is really under used in a lot of games and with ashes having augments combos between classes would be really fun too see. Please feel free too add input or tell me I'm stupid for thinking these things thank you for reading

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Comments

VmanGman

I like your ideas for more diverse abilities such as the knock up.

Based on your AoE skill idea, it seems that you do not understand how the flagging system will work. AoE skills will not and should not always hit all nearby targets in a game with AoC's systems.

Animation cancelling is a horrible thing. At its core, it's basically breaking the game and how it was intended to be played. Skill expression can be achieved without wonky systems like animation cancelling.

Edit: word

Mushin

So can someone explain to me what the problem is with not having animation canceling or having animation canceling. Is the reason people do not like the current iteration because of the long drawn out animation sequences? The problem I'm having is that it looks and feels like ESO way too much. I played ESO when it first came out stopped and played again after a few expansions and stopped. Each time I stopped was because of how combat felt. It wasn't a failure of how they made the combat system but just how bad it looked and felt which has to do with the actual animation. I feel they should just do action combat with active targeting and a combo system. If you want active engagement in combat, the combo system is the best way to do that. Also please have active block. I'm really invested in the look and feel of combat because I just don't want this game to turn into ESO 2. Steven should do a new kickstarter milestone to get motion capture and professional martial artists to do the animations, I'd throw more money at them if that was a thing.

Squishygod

vmangman wrote: »

Based on your AoE skill point, it seems that you do not understand how the flagging system will work. AoE skill will not and should not always hit all nearby targets in a game with AoC's systems.

i understand that you cant flag your own party, guild and stuff but that doesn't mean AOE cant hit all combatants. why shouldn't they hit all nearby targets? just wanna know what type of abuse that could happen with it that cant be resolved by kicking someone from party/guild and killing them.

vmangman wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a horrible thing. At its core, it's basically breaking the game and how it was intended to be played. Skill expression can be achieved without wonky systems like animation cancelling.

Edit: word

I disagree fighting games and other genre of games are build with the intention that people will animation cancel. Yes originally it was a bug but now days its much more of a feature. if people didn't like animation cancelling no fighting game would have it yet everyone does.

Songcaller

You can't AoE Bait someone. That's why AoE can't hit everyone. Combatants are different. You can AoE all combatants if you are a combatant.

VmanGman

Squishygod wrote: »

i understand that you cant flag your own party, guild and stuff but that doesn't mean AOE cant hit all combatants. why shouldn't they hit all nearby targets? just wanna know what type of abuse that could happen with it that cant be resolved by kicking someone from party/guild and killing them.

It's because of how the flagging system and corruption system will work in AoC. Look it up and it will be clear why AoE skills shouldn't be hitting everyone around you.

Squishygod wrote: »

I disagree fighting games and other genre of games are build with the intention that people will animation cancel. Yes originally it was a bug but now days its much more of a feature. if people didn't like animation cancelling no fighting game would have it yet everyone does.

It is a bug and a wonky mechanic that was not intended. Skill expression can be achieved without buggy animation cancelling. Also, AoC is not a fighting game so just because other genres allow this bug, it doesn't mean that it should exist in MMORPGs. It's one of the main reasons people don't play ESO (myself included).

Edit: quote

Talents

Need to remember that the "revamp" in March isn't a full revamp, more a slight adjustment to combat that they will be doing multiple times to see what direction they want to take the combat.

Squishygod

VmanGman wrote: »

It's because of how the flagging system and corruption system will work in AoC. Look it up and it will be clear why AoE skills shouldn't be hitting everyone around you.

yeah i get how that works but i feel AOE skills should ignore it a bit where if it hits non party members it goes through flagging system but if it hits party member it ignores the flag system doesn't flag you and if people are griefing you can just kick them or leave party and attack them and they flagged same with guilds and alliances.

Songcaller

People would run into your AoEs, flag you and kill you without corruption risk. The system won't change.

VmanGman

Squishygod wrote: »

VmanGman wrote: »

It's because of how the flagging system and corruption system will work in AoC. Look it up and it will be clear why AoE skills shouldn't be hitting everyone around you.

yeah i get how that works but i feel AOE skills should ignore it a bit where if it hits non party members it goes through flagging system but if it hits party member it ignores the flag system doesn't flag you and if people are griefing you can just kick them or leave party and attack them and they flagged same with guilds and alliances.

That would open up a whole lot of griefing options. The system has been well thought out. Allowing AoE skills to hit everyone is not a good idea.

McMackMuck

I want to see more abilities tied in with movement. At the moment I've seen a lot of static abilities. I don't mean charges or teleports, I mean attack combos that move forwards, defensive combos that walk you backwards whilst shooting a bow or slinging ice bolts. Alternatively just allow people move during abilities. This can always be restricted to walking speed. Some abilities should be static, some allow walking, some running/charging.

daveywavey

Squishygod wrote: »

Animation canceling and combos
Everyone loves combos who doesn't honestly speaking they give that sweet dopamine kick we all love when we get that combo ender with mad damage. the only reason we have combos today is because of animation canceling, no one wants too feel stuck for extra half a second watching that animation end while sitting there thinking about how they wasting their life nah we want too press the next button

Animation cancelling is shite. Absolutely the worst part of ESO combat.

bloodprophet

Animation canceling and combos
Everyone loves combos who doesn't honestly speaking they give that sweet dopamine kick we all love when we get that combo ender with mad damage. the only reason we have combos today is because of animation canceling, no one wants too feel stuck for extra half a second watching that animation end while sitting there thinking about how they wasting their life nah we want too press the next button, now I don't think think we should go the route of having too have 1000apm just too be invited too raid but their should be some skill expression that separates casual good and great players.

nah we want too press the next button

This. This is exactly why I hate combos. It is all spammy click click click cl cl cl over and over. Who can spam the most buttons the fastest. Is also why I don't play fighting game and haven't wasted money on a console in 20+ years. I get where your coming from I just hate button smash spammy trash they try to pass off as fun.

maouw

I find combo systems and animation cancelling fun.
It shouldn't be forced one everyone in the game though - it has a much higher skill ceiling than gcd and the skill difference between players is self apparent - which means good players outperform the average player by orders of magnitude (whereas a good gcd player outperforms the average player by a manageable margin) - which tends to discourage the average person because the mechanical difference is overwhelming.

For this reason, a combo system/animation cancelling combat system should be either limited to one class so it can be easily tuned against everyone else - or just not put into the game at all.

Frostshot1

I honestly hate animation canceling. My eyes are not as good as they once were, and sometimes spotting a Feint is not so easy anymore.

I will say I do want faster paced combat more akin to GW2 than WoW or many older tab target games. Long cool down timers suck, unless it is for ultimate skills that make huge differences on the battle field.

Mushin

Anyone play neverwinter? Asking cause I heard the combat was good in it but never played it.

WalterWoodiaz

AOE should most definitely have long cast times

Mowaby

WalterWoodiaz wrote: »

AOE should most definitely have long cast times

Why? There are many types of aoe.

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