In-game Tutorials

I'm sure we've talked about this before but I'm curious to know what you would like to see in the tutorial section for Ashes. What do you think should be included? (feel free to reference other games that you thought had good tutorials).

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Shoelid

I always liked the OG World of Warcraft tutorials. They're pretty out of the way and, as far as I remember, were just a sentence or two to explain something that was going on. They mostly existed to explain the very basic UI and game elements. Everything else was left to the player to interpret.

A game with as many systems as Ashes definitely needs a tutorial of sorts. Imagine trying to figure out the hybrid combat system with zero explanation. It doesn't need to be super extensive, just a couple sentences to get the player started. There should also be an in-game "glossary" of sorts to look up terms, systems, abilities, classes, lore... Anybody that's played games like Crusader Kings III or Civilization will know how great these things can be. A glossary would allow people to quickly look up in game what the difference is between a scientific node and an economic node. This way people can easily learn in-game if they want to, without a super extensive tutorial to cover every detail.

WhitneyHagasMatsumoto

I am fine with just a minimal tutorial.
While you are offline, a very brief Verra lore will be told to you, and you will be taught only basic operations, including combat.

And if I want to know about efficient crafting, for example, I prefer to be able to get non-meta information in the form of specialized books. 👀

I've never played an MMO before, but I've played a few hundred hours of Kenshi, and I've been knocked down by goats and scavenged the belongings of criminals killed by guards, so I know how fun it can be to live in a world of exploration!

And in an MMO, you can ask other players for help.

Maybe that's why players communicate so well with each other, and maybe that's how you find your future best friend!

McMackMuck

Cinematic introduction: Yes, it can be re-used for marketing.

Tutorials: None or minimal.
They can easily become a waste of dev resource as many players will ignore them.
.
Ask your official content creators to do videos on various orientation subjects and launch an Intrepid copy of those videos (permissions vs. referral money) when the player clicks on them in the HELP menu.
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If you get the players used to asking content creators then you farm out front line support to the content creators (they get referrals!), which takes some workload off Intrepid staff.
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You might even get players to read the wiki for help. Imagine that.

Vhaeyne

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

When I first started player Final Fantasy 11, there were ZERO tutorials, or even quests at all that directed players where to go, or give them a task to do.

I was dropped right into the city of Bastok. Annnnnnnd, that was that.
Haha!

I didn't even know how to MOVE! It was confusing. But eventually I figured out how to type in chat and asked someone how to move. Shortly after, 2 friendly players showed up and coached me along. Giving me tips and hints and lead me around the city to various useful locations. And after about 30-40 minutes, they bid me farewell, releasing me into the wild world of Vana'diel.

As discombobulating as that experience was, it was also very memorable and fun. And felt warming that other's would stop what they are doing to help a newbie out.

I prefer no tutorials.

We are arriving on Verra as newborn-pups...and must figure out how to survive on our own, or alongside our fellow friends that have exited the Gates alongside us.
-

You are right about that. No other MMO I have ever played required the players to teach each other so much. The lack of hand holding really helped with both the sense of accomplishment when actually doing something, and the socialization. I met a lot of people just asking them basic things like: "why are you in this area at your level? Ohh there is a job quest here? cool. Sure i'll help." boom, just like that you are making a new friend.

Tutorials shift the game slightly toward being a solo experience, and I will never be in favor of that. If I wanted to play a solo game I would.

Wandering Mist

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Lore Dynamic wrote: »

When I first started player Final Fantasy 11, there were ZERO tutorials, or even quests at all that directed players where to go, or give them a task to do.

I was dropped right into the city of Bastok. Annnnnnnd, that was that.
Haha!

I didn't even know how to MOVE! It was confusing. But eventually I figured out how to type in chat and asked someone how to move. Shortly after, 2 friendly players showed up and coached me along. Giving me tips and hints and lead me around the city to various useful locations. And after about 30-40 minutes, they bid me farewell, releasing me into the wild world of Vana'diel.

As discombobulating as that experience was, it was also very memorable and fun. And felt warming that other's would stop what they are doing to help a newbie out.

I prefer no tutorials.

We are arriving on Verra as newborn-pups...and must figure out how to survive on our own, or alongside our fellow friends that have exited the Gates alongside us.
-

You are right about that. No other MMO I have ever played required the players to teach each other so much. The lack of hand holding really helped with both the sense of accomplishment when actually doing something, and the socialization. I met a lot of people just asking them basic things like: "why are you in this area at your level? Ohh there is a job quest here? cool. Sure i'll help." boom, just like that you are making a new friend.

Tutorials shift the game slightly toward being a solo experience, and I will never be in favor of that. If I wanted to play a solo game I would.

I see where you're coming from, but at the same time if you have absolutely no tutorial at all, you can potentially create a barrier to entry that relies on the community to fix.

akabear

Agree with both but personally I think there is still an absolute minimum of tutorial to get you started in a game.

Wandering Mist

akabear wrote: »

Agree with both but personally I think there is still an absolute minimum of tutorial to get you started in a game.

Yes, and as I stated in my video on this (thanks to everyone for your replies by the way), the absolute minimum I would include in the beginning is:

character movement
camera control
accepting and completing quests
basic combat

Everything else can be left to the player to learn or given in an offline information codex (ala ffxiv).

akabear

From own experience after returning to a game that I had left alone for 6, 12 or even a year or so, I was completely put off by not being able to remember how to play and with no capacity to turn on a tutorial again, and not really wanting to discard a character that I already had developed to relearn, I just wrote off the game instead.

So, I do believe there should be the capacity to redo a tutorial at a later date and even turn on particular areas too if you want a refresher.

Vhaeyne

Wandering Mist wrote: »

I see where you're coming from, but at the same time if you have absolutely no tutorial at all, you can potentially create a barrier to entry that relies on the community to fix.

I think that can be good for the community though. In my experience the more obtuse the new player experience is the more helpful veteran players are.

I thought about it more. I think the fairest compromise would be a in game manual. That way there is always an official explanation of how things are expected to work that can be referred to at anytime, but new players would still be likely to just ask questions about how do things in world or local chat.

Most people are going to just click though those quests any way then ask questions later.

McMackMuck

Please just make the tutorial elements optional.

I would initially assume that it is all intuitive enough for me not to need hand holding and skip the tutorial. Later you might find me asking guild mates or googling what I need, when I need it.

I respect that others may prefer to play through the tutorial.

Maybe a poll would give a better idea of how many would use the tutorial?
1) I will play through the tutorial fully
2) I will skip to play through only the more complex functions in the tutorial
3) I will skip the tutorial and find out what I need to know elsewhere

Lore Dynamic

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Most people are going to just click though those quests any way then ask questions later.

That's actually a really good point. Reminds me of my father's play-style. He's in his 60's and plays WoW mostly. But when trying out new games; "He doesn't have time for no Tutorials." He just wants to get going and get to killing things. He'll frantically click through tutorial, story-lines, quest objectives (which I often tease him about), trying to skip "all that useless stuff."

But then, when he actually needs to know something, he'll be texting me for the next hour, asking exactly how to do this or that.

....that guy....

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