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What would make a perfect endgame?
Javeon
Member
I just wanna see what the ashes community has to say. In my perfect endgame it would be something with fighting over territory or rising up against the biggest guild something along like in game politics that would bring together the community as a whole for like a big event. Something memorable
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I would say have the world bosses drop maps/keys to instanced raid bosses. Keep 95% of the game on the world map with the only instances being single room boss fights accessed by the maps/keys from open world raid bosses. Then have nothing in the game drop actual loot. Only crafting mats. This in combination with a well thought out tiered progression system would give people months of stuff to compete over.
Because people would require us fight in open world PvP over the rights to attempt a instanced raid boss with harder mechanics, then use that loot to make items. My system would tie together a need for Crafters, PvPers, and PvPers to work together.
The actual holy trinity we should be talking about.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
if all of this is done well, i will probably never stop playing the game
5 lv cap increase
New/rebalanced abilities
New gear tier
New epic world boss
New zones
New raid bosses
1-2 new instanced content
New siegable castle
One grand, new system every 2 years
Personally I hate level cap increases. Five level increments would be a conservative number that would keep things from getting out of had too much too quick. Maybe do the expansions every two years. Otherwise your suggestions seem quite good.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
When it comes to open world encounters, the assumption should always be made that someone will monopolize them - because someone like me always will.
If those open world encounters are then keys to instanced content, it means that the people that monopolize the open world content are the only ones that get access to the instanced content - which in turn means they are two full gear levels higher than anyone else, allowing them to continue to monopolize that open world content.
On the other hand, if you have the instanced content as the lower level tier end game content, everyone has access to it, everyone is able to actually "do" something as a guild, and everyone is able to work towards that improvement in gear for themselves and their guild. If you then throw a layer of open world encounters on top of that, it means that the people that will inevitably monopolize them will at most be one gear level ahead.
This can be done while still having the instanced content as the hardest actual PvE content in the game (which is an absolute necessity), but having the best gear drop from the open world encounters. This is easily justified due to the open world content being limited in terms of spawn numbers (one spawn per encounter every 10 days or so), and also the fact that there is an expectation of PvP during these encounters.
To me, that is the best endgame Ashes can hope to have. This general scheme, combined with adding new instanced and open world raids at least every 6 months (as well as other content) is the only way I can see Ashes being a game worth playing for more than maybe two years.
Perfectly valid concern. The rich will get richer under most systems. I am hoping they figure something out during these long alphas and betas.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
With the size of Verra, I don't think that'd be an issue.
Besides you're not forced to raid anymore to get the best loot which means even if you were denied access to the raid, you could still access the gear which would put you on a even footing with whoever monopolizes the open world content.
Gear should not be the determining factor anyway in PvP, it should be skill.
It will because only so many nodes will be advanced to the point that they have end-game raids. People will travel across the land, searching far and wide... for the good end game raid bosses.
Raiding will still be more worth your time than, grinding lesser mobs for hours on end. People are still going to want to do it. Your point might lower the pool of people willing to compete for raid bosses a little, but if a raid boss is up on the other side of the world. The plot to that movie "Its a mad mad mad mad mad world" will play out every time.
There might be a fair amount of wiggle room, but if gear is not a determining factor in a fight. Then gear will have no value. People will not have any reason to fight each other for resources, raid, or craft. The game will die.
Their estimate for gears power level will very based on class, enchantment level of the gear, character build, tier of gear. I don't think it will ever be as simple as saying 40% of a characters power comes from gear. It is a nice idea, but a bit harder in practice.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I, in the best gear, will always lose to someone that knows what they're doing. Gear won't be a replacement for skill. As you say, skill will be a determining factor.
While raiding may be worth your time more, that doesn't mean everyone will be able to compete or complete the content.
If gear is the determining factor in a fight then the combat is most likely not satisfying, then it's just about who put more effort/time into the game. Of course you should have a advantage if you have better gear, but it should never be the determining factor alone.
Not sure why gear would lose its value if it wasn't the determining factor in a fight. The gear should be about giving you as much of a advantage in a fight as possible, not give you a certain victory.
There might be a fair amount of wiggle room, but if gear is not a determining factor in a fight. Then gear will have no value. People will not have any reason to fight each other for resources, raid, or craft. The game will die.
Their estimate for gears power level will very based on class, enchantment level of the gear, character build, tier of gear. I don't think it will ever be as simple as saying 40% of a characters power comes from gear. It is a nice idea, but a bit harder in practice.
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While raiding may be worth your time more, that doesn't mean everyone will be able to compete or complete the content.
If gear is the determining factor in a fight then the combat is most likely not satisfying, then it's just about who put more effort/time into the game. Of course you should have a advantage if you have better gear, but it should never be the determining factor alone.
Not sure why gear would lose its value if it wasn't the determining factor in a fight. The gear should be about giving you as much of a advantage in a fight as possible, not give you a certain victory.
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I agree with this and it's the one thing I think NW does well. When playing their Test preview, you could be 20 levels lower than someone and still able to kill them. I think gear should be a necessity but skill should be the main factor. I think that would be a good endgame goal; To understand each and every class and find their weaknesses, and strengths and learn to counter them.
There might be a fair amount of wiggle room, but if gear is not a determining factor in a fight. Then gear will have no value. People will not have any reason to fight each other for resources, raid, or craft. The game will die.
Their estimate for gears power level will very based on class, enchantment level of the gear, character build, tier of gear. I don't think it will ever be as simple as saying 40% of a characters power comes from gear. It is a nice idea, but a bit harder in practice.
[/quote]
While raiding may be worth your time more, that doesn't mean everyone will be able to compete or complete the content.
If gear is the determining factor in a fight then the combat is most likely not satisfying, then it's just about who put more effort/time into the game. Of course you should have a advantage if you have better gear, but it should never be the determining factor alone.
Not sure why gear would lose its value if it wasn't the determining factor in a fight. The gear should be about giving you as much of a advantage in a fight as possible, not give you a certain victory.
[/quote]
I agree with this and it's the one thing I think NW does well. When playing their Test preview, you could be 20 levels lower than someone and still able to kill them. I think gear should be a necessity but skill should be the main factor. I think that would be a good endgame goal; To understand each and every class and find their weaknesses, and strengths and learn to counter them.
There will only be a handful of top end encounters able to spawn on any given server based on node state. People will know where and when these mobs will spawn, and will be there at the appropriate time to take them on.
As to the notion of skill being key in PvP - sure, may be it will be, but maybe it won't.
The thing is, the best players in the game naturally gravitate to the guild that is doing the best - so that guild that is monopolizing the open world content will not only be two tiers of gear better than the others, but will be made up of some of the better players on the server as well.
This is just how things naturally tend to go.
As to your point on not needing to raid to get the best loot, that isn't totally true.
The best loot in the game will be a combination of raid dropped components, that are then crafted in to top end gear by crafters. If me and my guild has the top end content locked down, I'm not sure how you expect to get hold of those materials to make that top end gear.
If you think we will be selling them to you, you will be in for a rude awakening.
Not saying it should be the only determination. Just saying it is going to be a major factor very often. If not than there is no reason to work for gear. Ideally everyone is try to keep their gear on the cutting edge so that the difference between two players is mostly character build and skill. As time goes on people will start to hit high enchantment levels and this will increase the effectiveness of gear. There is never going to be a static state where gear is not that important. Other wise we are just play street fighter with extra glitter.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Just as long as I can do that, I'm golden, because most MMOs I've played hardly give me that option to truly fine tune my character and improve upon my playstyle. Other than that, I'm hoping the Node system will keep people invested enough to continue wanting to PvEvP in the world in order to unlock other Nodes that haven't been activated yet, which'll unlock new content for certain areas.
Everything has a price, connections helps as well.
Personally I still think it wont be on such a big scale as you believe it will be.
I guess it will depend on the players on that server. If players choose to hit the nodes where the wealth is stored or join the side that protects the wealthy to be part of that power structure.
The node system is the end game that the most players will fall back on. Destroying some nodes and developing others to get access to PvE content will keep players busy for a while. Server politics will take a while to stabilize, if they ever do: "why does my metropolis need to be destroyed again? why not yours? Maybe we should destroy yours first to see what content we can unlock in your area?".
Some will just want to pursue their artisan career or naval career or own a tavern or explore every part of the world and have a complete map.
If you have a servers top end content on lockdown, you don't sell the rewards from it. The only (and I do mean ONLY) way those items will be up for sale on most servers while they are still considered top end is if the game has a cross server marketplace.
If a market is single server, and if you are the only people getting a specific top end item, you know that not selling it means you will always have an advantage over everyone else. As soon as they get that item, you lose that advantage.
If there is a cross server market, then you may as well be the guild that gets the gold from selling the items in question, as you have no way of preventing them from getting in to the hand of people from other guilds.
I have yet to see a game with single server markets and top end open world content where people willingly let that top end loot leave their guild.
As to scale, 90% of servers will have 90% of the top end raid encounters killed by one guild. Since we are talking just that one guild, you are right that the scale isn't that big.
Vertical progression is a thing of the past IMHO. We've learned from WoW's multiple stat 'squishes' and 'catch up mechanics' that it is just not a healthy framework in the long term.
The issue with this system is that each time there is new content added, more and more people arrive at their skill cap and can't progress further. Either that, or rather than it being an increase in skill needed, it is simply a case of needing to learn a new trick - which would get really old really fast.
While games like WoW and the two EQ games do have issues with vertical progression, they have those issues because that vertical progression has sustained those games for 15+ years.
Horizontal progression won't do that.
To me, progressing in an MMO is not always about how powerful I am. Yeah, I want to obtain the optimal gear to participate in a certain challenging encounter, but even beyond that, there should be plenty of other things to work on beyond just gear. I think we should think a bit more outside the box in this case.
Intrepid could always spice up the archetypes by changing the meta on a frequent basis. Give us new builds to try out, give us unique encounters that require us to have multiple sets of gear for a dungeon. There's plenty they could come up with.
Guild Wars 2's horizontal progression system has sustained itself for nearly a decade now.
Sounds impossible. Yet you're asking for the "perfect" endgame so nothing is impossible in our dreams.
To me, progression in an MMO is about the challenges myself and my guild are able to take on.
Changing the meta isn't exactly popular in ESO, and there they are only changing gear, not builds. I can't see how messing with builds on a regular basis would ever be good for a subscription based game.
As to GW2, the games raids are 10 man, because they know they wouldn't be able to convince enough people to participate in the content to require any more players than that.
While the game itself may be sustained, it is not because of it's top end content.
Unless your guild is full of just friends/family that you trust and know that they won’t screw you over, you will always have that one guild member who would do anything for some gold or to screw that guild over. People will plant spies, people will manipulate, that’s just politics at its finest right now. If you think that one guild is gonna take over then you better hope that you trust everyone in your guild. That’s what he means by “connections.” That connection could lead him into having the best gear and also gearing up his guild mates to take out your guild. No one stays number one forever.
Is this your opinion?
I'm not countering it because I don't have any data to counter with.
I was just wondering what the source of this information is?