What would make a perfect endgame?

I just wanna see what the ashes community has to say. In my perfect endgame it would be something with fighting over territory or rising up against the biggest guild something along like in game politics that would bring together the community as a whole for like a big event. Something memorable

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Mowaby

If I can spend most of my time fishing.

Noaani

Hellfar wrote: »

My perfect end game would be a horizontal progression system. Lots of challenging PvE encounters, but no level cap increase with new expansions. Just give us more challenging content to enjoy with our friends. I want the skill cap to be high but the gear cap to be low. I don't want to see a system where the next tier of gear outperforms the lower tier by a huge percentage.

Vertical progression is a thing of the past IMHO. We've learned from WoW's multiple gear 'squishes' that it is just not a healthy framework in the long term.

The issue with this system is that each time there is new content added, more and more people arrive at their skill cap and can't progress further. Either that, or rather than it being an increase in skill needed, it is simply a case of needing to learn a new trick - which would get really old really fast.

While games like WoW and the two EQ games do have issues with vertical progression, they have those issues because that vertical progression has sustained those games for 15+ years.

Horizontal progression won't do that.

Hellfar

Noaani wrote: »

Hellfar wrote: »

My perfect end game would be a horizontal progression system. Lots of challenging PvE encounters, but no level cap increase with new expansions. Just give us more challenging content to enjoy with our friends. I want the skill cap to be high but the gear cap to be low. I don't want to see a system where the next tier of gear outperforms the lower tier by a huge percentage.

Vertical progression is a thing of the past IMHO. We've learned from WoW's multiple gear 'squishes' that it is just not a healthy framework in the long term.

The issue with this system is that each time there is new content added, more and more people arrive at their skill cap and can't progress further. Either that, or rather than it being an increase in skill needed, it is simply a case of needing to learn a new trick - which would get really old really fast.

While games like WoW and the two EQ games do have issues with vertical progression, they have those issues because that vertical progression has sustained those games for 15+ years.

Horizontal progression won't do that.

To me, progressing in an MMO is not always about how powerful I am. Yeah, I want to obtain the optimal gear to participate in a certain challenging encounter, but even beyond that, there should be plenty of other things to work on beyond just gear. I think we should think a bit more outside the box in this case.

Intrepid could always spice up the archetypes by changing the meta on a frequent basis. Give us new builds to try out, give us unique encounters that require us to have multiple sets of gear for a dungeon. There's plenty they could come up with.

Guild Wars 2's horizontal progression system has sustained itself for nearly a decade now.

palabana

Forget about 40-man raid bosses. World scale events is where it's at. World-tier raid bosses that requires the cooperation or competition of the whole server is what would be a perfect endgame.

Sounds impossible. Yet you're asking for the "perfect" endgame so nothing is impossible in our dreams.

Noaani

Hellfar wrote: »

To me, progressing in an MMO is not always about how powerful I am.

It never is to me.

To me, progression in an MMO is about the challenges myself and my guild are able to take on.

Changing the meta isn't exactly popular in ESO, and there they are only changing gear, not builds. I can't see how messing with builds on a regular basis would ever be good for a subscription based game.

As to GW2, the games raids are 10 man, because they know they wouldn't be able to convince enough people to participate in the content to require any more players than that.

While the game itself may be sustained, it is not because of it's top end content.

Javionn

Noaani wrote: »

Blandmarrow wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

If you think we will be selling them to you, you will be in for a rude awakening.

Everything has a price, connections helps as well.

Personally I still think it wont be on such a big scale as you believe it will be.

If you have a servers top end content on lockdown, you don't sell the rewards from it. The only (and I do mean ONLY) way those items will be up for sale on most servers while they are still considered top end is if the game has a cross server marketplace.

If a market is single server, and if you are the only people getting a specific top end item, you know that not selling it means you will always have an advantage over everyone else. As soon as they get that item, you lose that advantage.

If there is a cross server market, then you may as well be the guild that gets the gold from selling the items in question, as you have no way of preventing them from getting in to the hand of people from other guilds.

I have yet to see a game with single server markets and top end open world content where people willingly let that top end loot leave their guild.

As to scale, 90% of servers will have 90% of the top end raid encounters killed by one guild. Since we are talking just that one guild, you are right that the scale isn't that big.

Unless your guild is full of just friends/family that you trust and know that they won’t screw you over, you will always have that one guild member who would do anything for some gold or to screw that guild over. People will plant spies, people will manipulate, that’s just politics at its finest right now. If you think that one guild is gonna take over then you better hope that you trust everyone in your guild. That’s what he means by “connections.” That connection could lead him into having the best gear and also gearing up his guild mates to take out your guild. No one stays number one forever.

McMackMuck

Noaani wrote: »

90% of servers will have 90% of the top end raid encounters killed by one guild.

Is this your opinion?
I'm not countering it because I don't have any data to counter with.
I was just wondering what the source of this information is?

Songcaller

Its called old logic based on instanced content without contestation and probably with fast travel added to the mix. One guild might be able to farm the instances alone but it will take whole alliances to pin down the open world and even then, counter alliances will still contest the content.

mobtek

I can't say I'm going to keep my interest if I have to do continual dungeon runs just to keep up with a gear grind. Please no gear grind. Like it was fun during RotLK but just doesn't rev my engine any more. I played GW2 for several years and only did one fractal, WvW was a heap more fun

Songcaller

Its not just gear acquisition that will require a grind. It will be gear maintenance too. The game will be a grind fest. Even the levelling process will take a long time. You won't have to be cutting edge though. You won't have to use cutting edge items all the time either. However, in sieges it would be advised to field the best items you can afford.

maouw

Reliquary Sets!!

Completing a set of artifacts for your node's reliquary crowns your Mayor with exclusive abilities that threaten other nodes.

So what happens?
Backstabbing/Civil War <--- infighting to become the mayor
All nodes launch a united attack against this node <--- Nobody should have this much power

Imagine Nagash rules your neighbouring metropolis and has collected Atrax's Staff, Crown and Chalice.
Your metropolis holds the Sword. You contact every other node on the server to stop Nagash raiding your metropolis for the last Relic - nobody else lifts a finger.
Nagash burns your city to the ground, retrieves the sword and is crowned the Immortal Lich of Verra. His metropolis turns into a Necropolis, guarded by ancients.
Other nodes across Verra notice that their resources are drying up inexplicably.
Caravans of undead keep spawning, transporting goods taken from each nodes' treasuries to the Necropolis.
The only way to stop this is permanently is to destroy the Necropolis.

The game has only just begun...

Percimes

Oh well... If the end game is anywhere close to what it is in most MMOs, I guess I'll make alts one after the other. Unless the PvP turns out to be really fun for me.

Sunboy

Fun

Ramirez

Healthy economy/Crafting, Politics, open world pvp/pve content with great reward but great risk and that risk can´t be just dying , something like lose your things, that will keep crafting and demanding relevant

Noaani

McMackMuck wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

90% of servers will have 90% of the top end raid encounters killed by one guild.

Is this your opinion?
I'm not countering it because I don't have any data to counter with.
I was just wondering what the source of this information is?

It is my experience based on games with similar open world content.

Picture it this way. Imagine you are running a guild that is full of top end players. The game you are playing has a specific number of encounters that drop the best loot in the game. You know when and where they will spawn.

Based on that, do you have any reason as to why you and your guild wouldn't be ready and waiting for these encounters to spawn? There is literally nothing better you can do with your time.

Now imagine you have killed them for the first 4 or 5 spawn cycles (your guild is top end, you were the first people to the level cap). You have this advantage over the rest of the server, and all you need to do to keep that advantage (and indeed extend it) is not allow other guilds to kill these mobs.

The players in your guild are happy to do that, as they like the advantage they have. What reason would you then have for not holding on to that advantage?

Noaani

Javionn wrote: »

Unless your guild is full of just friends/family that you trust and know that they won’t screw you over.

This is very much the case.

Our guild will not have more than 50 players in it, and 35 of those I have been running top end content with for 17 years.

Top end guilds are not exactly prone to spying.

Also, it is fairly standard that if you sell a piece of raid loot, you are out of the guild. This is standard in games without PvP, so in games with it, the rule just becomes more important.

The only thing left is if we lose an item via corruption, but we have systems in place to prevent that - depending on how the system goes live.

mcjenkins

Essentially after Campaign content. This is content in the game that doesn't necessarily upgrade your character, and if it does it would be a marginal increase, but regardless will still reward the player with achievements or cosmetics. Typically this content would also be extremely difficult that would either require skill or a niche set of builds and compositions in order to complete.

Also good PVP would help as well since the replay-ability in PVP is potentially endless.

Tacualeon

I don't find playing real state or politics engaging.

I hope guilds dedicated to fighting can play a good role on endgame, such a guarding open world bosses or getting hired to protect nodes.
I'd like exploring the world and the people of the world while learning how to fight so I know what I want to fight for at the end.

Javionn

Noaani wrote: »

Javionn wrote: »

Unless your guild is full of just friends/family that you trust and know that they won’t screw you over.

This is very much the case.

Our guild will not have more than 50 players in it, and 35 of those I have been running top end content with for 17 years.

Top end guilds are not exactly prone to spying.

Also, it is fairly standard that if you sell a piece of raid loot, you are out of the guild. This is standard in games without PvP, so in games with it, the rule just becomes more important.

The only thing left is if we lose an item via corruption, but we have systems in place to prevent that - depending on how the system goes live.

So basically you’re saying that the game is gonna be a race to monopolization... but you gotta realize if you’re in best gear that’s more of a reason for a server to come together to wipe you out so they can achieve that same gear. That’ll be fun. I’d like to see it

Noaani

Javionn wrote: »

So basically you’re saying that the game is gonna be a race to monopolization.

I'm saying top end open world content is.

While it is fun to think that the rest of the server would come together to stop you, this isn't really something that actually happens.

The best thing players can ask for is that the developers place limitations on how much content can be monopolized, and how much more powerful the people that monopolize that content can get.

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