Pay-wall on the CC in advance

So Intrepid is considering releasing the character creator in advance only for people that pre-order the game... This gives a couple of hours headstart for people not having to worry about creating their characters at launch. I have a pre-order pack, this doesn't affect me, still I think this is messed up. Big step in the wrong direction. What happened to the "We don't need your money" ?

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Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

I offered multiple solutions

The only one I saw was saying that the character creator should be offered to anyone with a subscription.

The thing is, that is EXACTLY the system they have now.

Right now, the cheapest way to get a subscription is to get the $75 pack. That OBVIOUSLY wont always be the case though. Assuming subscriptions are made available before release, the second you buy one, you have pre-ordered the game and thus have access to the character creator.

Since it makes sense that subscriptions will be made available no later than when head start servers go live, everyone that wants to make a character before they have access to the servers will be able to do so.

So no, you have not made suggestions at all as to what Intrepid should so differently. Rather, you have bitched and moaned about something, and then claimed that instead, Intrepid should do exactly what they are already doing.

It isn't people that defend developers that are ruining the MMO genre (which - to those that have been around these forums a while is something of an amusing label to place on me).

Rather, what is ruining the genre is idiots that complain about things without understanding them.

Liniker wrote: »

Please do as you said and don't reply to my threads again.

This is a statement that is only ever used when someone is faced with a point they cant refute, and refuse to concede.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

The thing is, that is EXACTLY the system they have now

@Noaani
1. It's not. There's no "system" now regarding anything about the whole character creator since they still didn't decide what to do. Steven said they are thinking about it.

Noaani wrote: »

Assuming subscriptions are made available before release, the second you buy one, you have pre-ordered the game and thus have access to the character creator.

2. You can't assume that since intrepid never talked about it. So far the only thing we know is that the cheapest pack for early access is the Non-P2W Non-Pay-for-convenience (so far) 75$ which is 5 times more than the entry sub price.

But IF that's the case, and they open subscriptions before the game is live giving access to CC, then as I already said before, I'm OK with that. That's a solution and I hope they do that. Since you will be paying 15$, gaining access to the CC and your sub will only start counting at day one. All good.

Noaani wrote: »

It isn't people that defend developers that are ruining the MMO genre

I can name multiple games where people defending developers ruined the games. The most recent example for me was New World. Can't remember how many times people defended the devs on mechanics that are absolute trash, and ended up being changed and the game delayed anyways.... Embarrassing.

Now you name 1 MMORPG that fanboys on the community defending devs at all cost made the game succeed? just 1, oh and are you still playing it?

It's pretty clear to me who doesn't understand things before talking about it.

Liniker

Neurath wrote: »

I don't understand the aversion. It's like arguing against the whole games industry who gives pre-order bonuses for all of the games bought prier to release.

I get what you are saying, my point is; different than other studios on the industry, Intrepid is well known for saying over and over since they started the project that they Won't have any type of Pay to Win or Pay for Convenience in their game.

I consider giving early access to character creator Only to backers like myself, that paid for packages costing 5, 10 or 20 times more than the game subscription; Paying for Convenience.

They still didn't make a decision on this, I'm just here sharing my thoughts hoping they don't do it.

I feel Intrepid is pushing their cosmetic packs way to much, It's the second thing you see when you scroll down their new webpage. Big "special offer" on it... and that worries me on a project that should already be out a year ago and didn't even hit Alpha 1. Again, I hope they don't follow that path.

Songcaller

I want to get my hands on character creation for peace of mind, no stress and for entertainment. If IS grant access I wont argue. I also wont argue if IS dont give early access. In my mind little else is more important in a game where choices matter.

If we had the ability to enter character creation at any time like in BDO then I would be less adamant about the desire. Nothing irritates me more than hair clipping armour. Often I choose a hairstyle that wont clip but how to know what wont clip until end game?

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Now you name 1 MMORPG that fanboys on the community defending devs at all cost made the game succeed? just 1, oh and are you still playing it?

Why would I do that? This was not my argument.

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

The thing is, that is EXACTLY the system they have now

But IF that's the case, and they open subscriptions before the game is live giving access to CC, then as I already said before, I'm OK with that.

Of course they will, subscription access will be made available no later than the day head start servers go live - which is two full days before people that have not pre-ordered will have access to the servers.

It is utterly ridiculous to think that an MMO will be live without the ability to purchase a subscription.

Actually, utterly ridiculous.

So, we have now determined that you are indeed perfectly fine with the whole situation, due to things I pointed out to you in my first reply to this thread.

Who is it again that isn't understanding?

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Of course they will, subscription access will be made available no later than the day head start servers go live - which is two full days before people that have not pre-ordered will have access to the servers

You missed the point, my "IF" in all my previous replies, was directed to IF they will release Character Creator to ALL subscription owners. Of course I know they will let people buy their subscription days or maybe weeks before the game goes live, as you said, questioning that is ridiculous, but that's not my point.

Noaani wrote: »

So, we have now determined that you are indeed perfectly fine with the whole situation, due to things I pointed out to you in my first reply to this thread.

IF they give access to Everyone that pays for their 15$ subscription, that's fine, I've said that from the start. My problem from the beginning always has been on the possibility that they Only release character creator for Intrepid Pack holders, starting at 75$. That's what I really think will be a bad move, and a step in the wrong direction.

I thought I was being clear but maybe not lol..

Liniker

Neurath wrote: »

Nothing irritates me more than hair clipping armour. Often I choose a hairstyle that wont clip but how to know what wont clip until end game?

I think this won't happen in ashes since they are putting a lot of thinking in amor appearance, combinations and so on... and tbh I used to think Steven was promising more that they could achieve when he said he wants Ashes to have a character creator on par, or better than BDO's.

But after I saw the latest lazy peon video, about some random edgy game called League of Maiden, made by 3 or 4 devs and with an incredibly detailed character creator, I now believe this is possible lol.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

I thought I was being clear but maybe not lol..

Not even remotely.

More to the point, you are arguing as if you are pissed off about how things are, when your argument as you claim it to be now is that you would be pissed off if Inteepid did something that they OBVIOUSLY wont do.

The notion that Intrepid would not give access to the character creator to someone that paid $15 for a months subscription just prior to launch is a completely unfounded assumption on your part.

If you are going to make unfounded assumptions that Intrepid would do the worst thing possible in any given situation, maybe play a game by a developer you dont think that about.

Either that, or maybe start making the assumption that Intrepid wont do the worst thing possible - not necessarily that they would do the best thing, just that they wouldn't do the worst thing.

palabana

What's the difference between people who knows the game early who also decided not to purchase any of the pre-order packs and instead opted to subscribe the game at launch versus someone who came to know the game merely minutes or hours after launch and subscribed to the game immediately after that?

Until you can tell me where the difference lies between these two kinds of people, this discussion of "you got in earlier than me because you pre-ordered that means it's pay for convenience or pay to win" is completely moot.

By the way, they have also said about a couple of years ago that they might include the character creator in Apocalypse instead for everyone to use. Apocalypse is after all a big giant marketing tool that can help boost the game's popularity if it's done well.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

More to the point, you are arguing as if you are pissed off about how things are, when your argument as you claim it to be now is that you would be pissed off if Inteepid did something that they OBVIOUSLY wont do.

Again, I disagree. You make it sound like we should always expect the best out of Intrepid. What makes you think that? I get it, Steven is a cool dude, he's a gamer like we are, all that good stuff.

Still, so far, what has Intrepid delivered that makes you think they deserve your trust?

Look at the facts. They only delivered a BR that was massively hated due to the marketing around it and the poor communication.

They promised Ashes of Creation would be out a year ago. They said they encountered problems with apoc and apologized, fine - how come their ART, models, and all that other stuff not regarding the problems they found, still aren't done if the game was supposed to release in 2020?

Let's forget about that, what about a few months ago when they said over and over again that they were dealing with covid perfectly working from home, everything was fine, A1 was coming with no NDA by fall 2020. Guess not.

- We are 3 weeks away from NDA drop on A1, do you believe that? Because they should know by now if they are ready or not. They said they are, we'l see.

Plus, they sell us the idea they are not doing it for the money, it's about making a good game, yet they are clearly pushing WAY to much on their cosmetics, same as they did in APOC, monetizing cosmetics on a Battle Royale testing mode. Cosmetics still are the first thing you see scrolling on their website. It's the first thing you hear on their monthly livestream.

With all that, I will ask you again;

Noaani wrote: »

If you are going to make unfounded assumptions that Intrepid would do the worst thing possible in any given situation, maybe play a game by a developer you dont think that about.

What reasons do you have to believe they will always do the best for the community? And why am I not allowed to criticize something I believe it's wrong, I don't want them to do, and that I think there's a possibility they might do?

I want Ashes to be the best game possible and change the industry. If I didn't believe that was possible, I wasn't gonna waste my time following this game. I like Steven, I like Intrepid, but they ain't perfect, they messed up, and will continue to mess up, that's normal. I just don't think tender words and being a fanboy helps.

Cypher

This shouldn’t be an issue. The people calling it pay to win or even pay to convenience are just entitled equality-police who want every single thing to be given to every single person. Sorry, doesn’t work that way. If Intrepid rolls out an early character creator for paying customers, and you aren’t a paying customer, that’s not their fault. You don’t get access to something you haven’t paid for.

Also, we don’t know what reason they would have for making this decision yet but I’m sure it wouldn’t be “just ‘cuz”. I mean my goodness. If you want to make a character early, pay for the game early. If you don’t want to pay early, then make a simple character on day one. The idea that someone cares so much about having a shot at being the first one to do everything is insane. You won’t be. Some nameless player who wasn’t ever even on these forums is going to beat you to it. Always.

Liniker

Cypher wrote: »

This shouldn’t be an issue. The people calling it pay to win or even pay to convenience are just entitled equality-police who want every single thing to be given to every single person.

Not at all... Your argument can be used to defend Intrepid, if tomorrow they decide to release a new Class or Archetype exclusive only for 250$ voyager pack holders.... I can literally say;

"The people calling it pay to win or even pay to convenience are just entitled equality-police who want every single thing to be given to every single person."

It's not their fault if you aren't a paying customer right?

Wrong.

If character creator is released to Everyone that pays their 15$ sub, fine, if it's for backers only starting at 75$, we will have a problem. Since they will be breaking the non-pay-for-convenience promise.

Songcaller

It's not really paying for convenience though. Unless a Dev will sit at the console, make your character and say 'Is your character acceptable?' then how would it be pay for convenience? We'd still have to make a character, spend time making a character and accept that character in order to progress.

Moe1

Neurath wrote: »

It's not really paying for convenience though. Unless a Dev will sit at the console, make your character and say 'Is your character acceptable?' then how would it be pay for convenience? We'd still have to make a character, spend time making a character and accept that character in order to progress.

I agree there is no convenience here. Just because someone starts a few minutes or hours earlier they are still investing the equivalent amount of time. If it were convenience should we have to wait a month for the people who wait til the following month of release to sub? We would clearly have an advantage if we sub day 1.

Cypher

Liniker wrote: »

Cypher wrote: »

This shouldn’t be an issue. The people calling it pay to win or even pay to convenience are just entitled equality-police who want every single thing to be given to every single person.

Not at all... Your argument can be used to defend Intrepid, if tomorrow they decide to release a new Class or Archetype exclusive only for 250$ voyager pack holders.... I can literally say;

"The people calling it pay to win or even pay to convenience are just entitled equality-police who want every single thing to be given to every single person."

It's not their fault if you aren't a paying customer right?

Wrong.

If character creator is released to Everyone that pays their 15$ sub, fine, if it's for backers only starting at 75$, we will have a problem. Since they will be breaking the non-pay-for-convenience promise.

Incredibly dumb argument. Character creation, which takes some people seconds, others minutes, and some extremists multiple hours is not even remotely the same as introducing an exclusive class which had an actual impact on gameplay and overall balance. Did you even read or think about your own argument before you smashed the “Post Comment” button?

WhitneyHagasMatsumoto

I am not entirely unaware of the OP's argument.

I understand some people's resistance to having access to character creators as quickly as possible by paying for them.

But I think it's kind of a sincere thank you to those who supported Ashes in its early days.
I don't think that this will sway Ashes' philosophy of eliminating P2W.

Don't worry.
For now, take a deep breath and trust the folks at ntrepid Studios.
If in the future you think their philosophy is warped, I promise I'll join you in letting them know my opinion.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

You make it sound like we should always expect the best out of Intrepid.

Do I?

Do I really?

Noaani wrote: »

maybe start making the assumption that Intrepid wont do the worst thing possible - not necessarily that they would do the best thing, just that they wouldn't do the worst thing.

That was in the same post you quoted.

If you think I am making it sound like I think we should always expect the best out of Intrepid after reading that, it is nothing but a reflection on you.

You are clearly someone that operates on an internal narrative. You have no reason to assume Intrepid won't offer the character creator equally to anyone that has access to the game before the servers go live, yet because your internal narrative says that Intrepid are evil (or perhaps all game developers are), you made the immediate assumption that this would be the case, and refuse to deviate from that position despite no logical reason to hold on to it.

Likewise, you said it sounded to you like I was saying we should expect the best things from Intrepid, despite me literally typing out that we shouldn't assume they will do the best thing. You had your internal narrative of what you thought my position was, and when confronted with evidence to the contrary, you simply ignored it.

Liniker

Cypher wrote: »

Incredibly dumb argument. Character creation, which takes some people seconds, others minutes, and some extremists multiple hours is not even remotely the same as introducing an exclusive class which had an actual impact on gameplay and overall balance. Did you even read or think about your own argument before you smashed the “Post Comment” button?

Never said it was similar, just used a clearly exaggerated example to show u how ur argument is stupid if it can be used to defend pretty much anything. Go read it again.

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Likewise, you said it sounded to you like I was saying we should expect the best things from Intrepid, despite me literally typing out that we shouldn't assume they will do the best thing. You had your internal narrative of what you thought my position was, and when confronted with evidence to the contrary, you simply ignored it.

This conversation will get us nowhere... You also ignored everything I typed about me liking intrepid and supporting what they're doing, despite acknowledging the fuck ups they made. I do not expect the worse from them, if I did I wouldn't be here wasting my time, you ignored that part as well, I just listed all the reasons that made me write this thread since I do have reasons to worry they might make a wrong decision, as they did before, that's it.

I already understood your point, let's agree to disagree,

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

I already understood your point, let's agree to disagree,

I don't think you understand much at all, to be honest.

Case in point

Liniker wrote: »

They promised Ashes of Creation would be out a year ago.

Intrepid have never given a release date for Ashes.

Not once. Not ever.

They have gone out of their way to say that they are not announcing even a targeted release date, and have always said the game will release when it is ready.

Yet here you are stating that they have.

I refuse to agree to disagree with people when they are objectively wrong. It's fine if it is subjective, but when people have actual facts wrong, I refuse outright.

Liniker wrote: »

I do not expect the worse from them

Yes, you do.

You have made one assumption about them that I am aware of, and that assumption was that they would do the actual, literal worst thing in the situation.

You can't claim you don't expect the worst (not worse - English, learn it), when 100% of you actions show that you do.

That is like me saying I am always a nice person, and post nothing but friendly posts on forums and people like me.

Your observations are likely contrary to that, so that is not something I would claim.

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