"Fast Travel" / Ashes and Valheim

I think most of us agree Fast travel is a bad idea. I believe there was a decent compromise was made, with having a fast travel tied to a node type and works only for those, city to city? (CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG) and that is fine.

my concern is other potential fast travel, such as gates/teleports/recall.

I think there should be SOME degree of gating / recalling / teleporting. One makes the mage and/or wizard class a distinctive character but have restrictions.

Definition:

Recall - able to fast travel to home only.

Teleport 1 - Able to fast travel to City. Self only OR
Teleport 2 - Able to fast travel to a marked spot. Self Only

City Gate - Able to teleport from specific city node to other specific city node. (In current system iirc)
Magical portal - Created by specific class(es) to allow fast travel for multiple people.

Now let's talk about restrictions.

I believe we can have all of these but with strict restrictions.
First, ALL FAST TRAVEL WILL NOT WORK after leaving a dungeon. You will have a Dungeon Debuff of 1 IN-GAME hour. Unable to recall/teleport/gate. Certain Items/Mats can also prevent you from recalling/teleporting/gating.
Like in Valheim - you're unable to use a gate when you have ores on you. Quest items from dungeon bosses / or highly sought mats can prevent you from using fast travel.

Additional restrctions.

Recall - Can only be done from City to home and from the same node the home resides in. 3 hour IN-GAME cooldown

Teleport 1 - For specific class(es) - they can pick up to 5 cities, 1 from each node type only and is permanent. May be able to travel there freely city to city or a IN-GAME cooldown of 5 hours from anywhere in the world to the city. The cities they have chosen is permanent. Only way to remove it is if that city is destroyed. or falls down to tier 2?3? Then the caster may chose another city of that same type (military, market, science, religion...).

Teleport 2 - Self only for specific magical class(es). Has an in-game cooldown, can be tied to node it resides in only or adjacent node if needed.

City gate - intrepid already has a rule attached to it iirc.

magical portal- can only be opened if no-one is under the dungeon debuff or is carring banned items. Magical gate teleports everyone, including the caster, so this prevents mage services and goes on a LONGER in-game cooldown. Anyone in that group portal that has a dungeon debuff or carrying items that are banned from portals will be left behind, alone!

I do think there should be some access of fast travelling after a fail dungeon raid or excursion. But we can limit the how. So farmers gathering ores, plants for big ticket items may not be able to fast travel and have to risk not getting pvped for those highly sought rare mats. Dungeon loots - you aren't safe yet - now you need to make it back home safely with your entourage. Maybe the boss loot is so epic, it spawned a caravan - and the loot isn't officially yours until you can make it back into town.

overall - I never thought of this until recently playing Valheim and I found it intriguing they restricted the portal because of ores and we can use that type of mechanic here for some compromises. It is unfortunate Valheim is easy to loophole the ores - log out from your main server at your base, start a new world, mine there then log back into your main server - tada. But obviously you cant do that in AoC.

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Comments

Noaani

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Personally, I don't like the idea of changing the intent of family summon from enabling friends to quickly start playing together into a primary purpose being a way of avoiding working through a dungeon after death.

I don't want that either, but I also don't see how it would be possible.

First of all, the game should have a mechanic in place so that if the groups cleric dies, someone else in the group has a means of resurrecting them (cast a buff on or summon an item for a group member so they are able to resurrect that specific player once in the next hour, or some such).

With that in place, there is no real way in which someone can die, there not being a resurrection available, yet there being someone in place to port back to - which is the scenario you need to be in for a summon to be used to avoid working through a dungeon after a death.

Dead Crow

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.

winner909098

Meytal wrote: »

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.

Its just that the game has been no fast travel since the beginning, and having it betrays the trust that we have in steven.

Ostaff

There are tons of games out there with fast travel. Why not let there be a game around that actually is GOOD because it actually DOESN'T allow fast travel and thereby forces player immersion into the game world itself?

Wandering Mist

Meytal wrote: »

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.

Here's the 3 reasons why I don't like fast travel in mmorpgs:

1. It makes the world smaller. When you're able to cross the map in seconds the entire world feels like a tiny village
2. It reduces random interaction. You wanna know how many actual players I run into in the open world in ESO? Hardly any at all. Even if I don't use fast travel, everyone else does so they teleport from the towns to the dungeons and back without ever going out into the world.
3. It turns what should be a grand adventure into a non-important side trip. In the Lord of the Rings when the hobbits reach Rivendale there is a huge sense of relief after the trials of travelling through the wilderness being hunted by the Nazgul. Now imagine if they just teleported instantly from the Shire to Rivendale....

A game like Ashes relies so much on the world being big and meaningful interactions in the open world that any kind of fast travel has the potential to ruin the entire gameplay experience.

Nagash

I'm with Wandering mist here, fast travel jut makes things why to convent

VmanGman

Meytal wrote: »

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.

@Meytal Wandering Mist answered your question perfectly.

If you personally like fast travel and it’s a deal breaker for you, then you might not like AoC because thankfully it will have very limited fast travel.

Edit: word

Andy

Meytal wrote: »

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it.

It's already starting...

You "don't have time" but you want to play MMORPG which are time consuming games, especially AoC which claimed to be a "oldschool" and way more slow pathed than the other MMORPG on the market ?

And stop with the : "You don't like it, don't use it". It's not an argument. This is the typical sentence used by lazy people to ask for P2W/P2Fast features.
Ex : "Please add a 60$ level max boost. Don't like it ? Don't use it" This work with every sh*tty features like this.

Taleof2Cities

VmanGman wrote: »

Meytal wrote: »

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.

@Meytal Wandering Mist answered your question perfectly.

If you personally like fast travel and it’s a deal breaker for you, then you might not like AoC because thankfully it will have very limited fast travel.

Edit: word

Agreed.

Steven's stance on fast travel is well-known.

This is one of the few game mechanics that I (appreciatively) don't see changing much before launch.

CriminalCupcake

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.

The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.

Dreoh

Meytal wrote: »

I don't know what any of you have against fast travel. Some of us have only limited time to play the game. No-one actually has to use the fast travel. You don't like it, don't use it. You want to take 2 hours to get from point A to point B so you can enjoy the scenery. Go for it. Maybe for the non fast travel people you'll even gain some advantage and found quests along the way. That's great. I personally like fast travel.

This betrays an ignorance to how the state of modern MMO's have become so lackluster.
Retail WoW is such a spoonfed theme park because they catered slowly and bit by bit to players like you or with like mindsets. It's why there was such a huge call for them to make Classic servers. It's why people are so drawn to Ashes of Creation, because AoC is not spoonfeeding and creating bland hand-holdy experiences.

People always flout "Just don't use it then", but it's not even close to being that easy. Players and the community will always optimize the fun out of any game given any chance to. That's become irrefutable fact.

Sure some people will do what you say, but that's only people who don't care about keeping up with the community and are trying to play solo. And MMO's are and should not be made for solo players.

Edit: If you need a video explanation, this video does a good job of doing so

Noaani

CriminalCupcake wrote: »

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City

This *may* happen, but if it does, that just creates opportunity.

If I were playing a game where I spent a lot of my time on and around one of five cities, with each of those cities having unique content for each level range, I could see it being a really interesting adventure to spend some time getting ready, and then heading off to spend some time on the road, then spend a week at a different city.

You would have the opportunity to run content you wouldn't have seen, you can interact with players you've never heard of, and if it is a different node type, that would mean you have different amenities.

I dont think the game would be quite like this, as I wouldn't expect it to take that long to get around, but the general idea of this is still relevant that you would have your home node with its content, and heading off anywhere else is a bit of an adventure.

Dreoh

Noaani wrote: »

CriminalCupcake wrote: »

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City

This *may* happen, but if it does, that just creates opportunity.

If I were playing a game where I spent a lot of my time on and around one of five cities, with each of those cities having unique content for each level range, I could see it being a really interesting adventure to spend some time getting ready, and then heading off to spend some time on the road, then spend a week at a different city.

You would have the opportunity to run content you wouldn't have seen, you can interact with players you've never heard of, and if it is a different node type, that would mean you have different amenities.

I dont think the game would be quite like this, as I wouldn't expect it to take that long to get around, but the general idea of this is still relevant that you would have your home node with its content, and heading off anywhere else is a bit of an adventure.

Also seeing as you get more gold the farther away from where you killed a monster when you sell it's resources you're going to get a lot of people at least traveling one node away at the minimum for extra cash

Wandering Mist

CriminalCupcake wrote: »

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.

The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.

In a lot of modern mmorpgs players stay afk in the towns because there is no reason to go explore the open world. Everything of worth is in the dungeons and raids that you can teleport to. Again, this won't be the case in Ashes because of the need to gather resources in the open world for your node. The size of the world and the lack of a global auction house also means players will have to travel to get the things they need.

Ostaff

CriminalCupcake wrote: »

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.

The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.

Thats why we have mounts. To make our travels just that bit more faster, but still having to traverse them.

Dargron

CriminalCupcake wrote: »

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.

Many will, but as Noaani points out, that will just create opportunity. Resources, mobs, content will all be spread far and wide, and just as many players will likely travel out to the most remote corners of the map to lay their claim, pitch their freeholds for a convenient base of operations, and capitalise on the advantages of being far from civilisation and having exclusive access to content most players will never even attempt to reach. Guilds may end up forming entire villages of freeholds in these remote areas.

Meanwhile, players who remain close to the cities will likely be faced with congestion and competition from every angle. Every resource they try to harvest will have dozens of other players competing to harvest the same thing, and players looking to steal their loot will congregate in these areas to catch them as they try to deliver their spoils. Eventually this may encourage more players to venture further out from the cities, either to play in peace, or simply find their own little piece of paradise to plant their freehold, forming a new base from which to venture out further.

Enigmatic Sage

an issue i see with fast travelling like this would be:
1. vast world created for players to explore, this would shorten it drastically.
2. just move resources faster and troll around caravans by filling your pockets and running
3. flee option in combat that players will use to run away instead of engaging or trying to avoid a run down
4. would create toxic gameplay

PoliceGirl

Noaani wrote: »

I think the current system with the family summons is already too much.

If you travel to a location, you should take in to account the need to travel back.

I completely agree. I want a game that forces me to play the damn thing.

Liniker

I think they should remove the current family summon or make it 24h or 48 hours colddown... I want as little fast travel as possible, people need to populate the world, walk around the map...

Dead Crow

I get all the arguments, and it's not a deal breaker for me. I thought this was a place of discussion not vitriol to dissenting opinions. I've played pretty much every MMO that's ever been made. And some of you have made great arguments for not having it. Just expressing my opinion, I did not say P2W was what I wanted either, that's the default answer for everything if someone has a dissenting opinion I guess. In reference to the amount of time I have, that I shouldn't play at all is the solution. I enjoy playing games. It's the one thing I can do to relax and take my mind of my responsibilities. I just have very limited time. If I find that once in game I can't get anything done then I will move along. I look forward to actually playing the game to make a better determination of if it's the right game for me or not. I've already made the investment into the game. I especially liked this answer. Makes sense.

CriminalCupcake wrote: »

I feel that with a lack of ANY AND ALL fast travel, players may be inclined to sit really close to their home node's City, and it'll dampen all aspects of the game anyways. We already see people afk in town for hours at a time at max level just due to not wanting to put in effort to go somewhere.

The few options that we'll have access to shouldn't be gamebreaking, as in whole guilds zerging a zone, but instead, be a minor convenience. And i think that's what the current FT vision is.

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