Should PVP zones be in AoC?

I have no idea if this has been talked about before, but I think PVP zones should be included inside Ashes of Creation. It should contain the rarest materials and also the hardest Mobs but also should be on par with PVE farming zones. The area should be 1 Item Loot PVP, meaning you have a chance at losing 1 piece of gear or item that is equipped as well as materials that have been farmed there, open to free loot meaning if you killed someone those drops can be stolen by someone else, and combat tag meaning you cannot leave the area or logout unless your combat tag expires. I feel like this could be a good RvR factor inside Ashes of Creation because it's a high-risk high reward system that lets you grind the rarest materials that are used to craft and or repair the rarest equipment but risk losing that rare item or gear that you have. it also encourages PVP and those who really like to PVP can test their skills, those who like to PK can do it here. Also, making the material/mob respawn times Slower than the normal respawn timer just so it's not so overpowered. I believe it should be added inside the game whether it's the start or later down the road because I know people would want to farm these areas and people will have extra gear now that there is gear degradation. what do you guys think?

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Ramirez

LieutenantToast wrote: »

VmanGman wrote: »

I’m sorry, but people like you are not welcome here.

Anyone who loves MMOs and wants to see the world of Verra take shape is more than welcome here Let's please remember to be kind to our new friends here on the forums, and rather than telling them they're not welcome, share with them our vision for Ashes of Creation and why it excites you!

Vman was a little bit rude but i understand his feeling, it s hard always someone trying to shape every mmorpg in another Themepark WOW... Look new world example, they stop following they "vision" to try pleasant everyone , now they have a mess in their hands.

Ostaff

"I sense much fear you, young one."

"Fear leads to the dark side"

"Fear is the mind killer"

But you are totally right, people should play the game as its intended and not try to keep changing it when they aren't the ones actually putting in all the work. And carebear themepark games have definitely killed the mmo market.

Vhaeyne

LieutenantToast wrote: »

Share with them our vision for Ashes of Creation and why it excites you!

In the 7-8 months I have been actively following and cheering this game on. The number one source of conflict I have seen on the Discord, Reddit, and forums is exactly what is "Our Vision" for Ashes.

To me personally it seems well documented. I have linked this page https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Design_pillars to many people when the vision of Ashes is called into question.

Still I can't help but think that because the Wiki is not official, but only compiled from official statements. Maybe I too may have some misconceptions about the vision Intrepid has for Ashes. I worry that I might only hear what I want to hear.

Perhaps a new tab on the fresh new website with an official outline of the vison Intrepid has for Ashes could help clear things up. Maybe something in a FAQ style. I know Ashes is trying to be a lot of things, and I love the ambition. Ashes just can't be everything at once.

Some of us need to be let down. Steven pretty much laid the hammer down on the discussion about DPS meters or addons. While I don't love that design choice, I do like that it cleared up that part of the Vision for Ashes. Concrete statements about the vision of the game go a long way in improving the community's expectations and discussions about the game. I hope to see more concreate statements as things fall into place.

ariatras

I love the idea that PvP is everywhere.

However, it would be cool to have areas in the game (outside the influence of a node for example) where you don't build corruption. BUT, that would depend entirely on how corruption is explained in terms of lore.

Aaxc

What's wrong with standard PvE / PvP / RP server types?

Ramirez

Aaxc wrote: »

What's wrong with standard PvE / PvP / RP server types?

Why separate the community? I think every roll in this game will fill a propose in the world , that s why is a PVX... And imagine me , i m roleplayer that love pvp, i will need to chose between pvp server or RP and sacrifice one.

VmanGman

Aaxc wrote: »

What's wrong with standard PvE / PvP / RP server types?

@Aaxc The way the game is designed would not support PvE server types. World bosses, resources etc. need to be contested through PvP for the game to work.

RP servers could work, but Intrepid has decided against it.

Mowaby

Aaxc wrote: »

What's wrong with standard PvE / PvP / RP server types?

What's wrong with the standard pvx server?

Andy

VmanGman wrote: »

@LieutenantToast that’s exactly the problem. They don’t want to see the world of Verra take shape. They want to shape Verra to their own ideals and vision.

I’ve seen people like that speak against a game’s vision and it’s lead to awful changes. I will speak up when they come looking to change AoC into something that it’s not trying to be.

I guess it’s your forums and you make the rules, but many of us will speak up when others come trying to change AoC away from what you guys set out to build.

When the hype around AoC will rise, this forum will be flooded by this type of players unfortunatly...
They'll whine to change the game into an another WoW/FF14 clone i can already feel the :

"Omg outdoor content wtf please add more instanced content"
"Omg remove PK are you insane ? I want to PvE ONLY"
"WTF i'm loosing ressource during caravan PvP"
"Why only 1% of the players can have flying mount give it to everyone"
"Leveling is too long & boring i don't care about it"
"I'm a casual this game take too much time rework it i can't catch-up with invested players what a shame !"

Neox365

Andy wrote: »

VmanGman wrote: »

@LieutenantToast that’s exactly the problem. They don’t want to see the world of Verra take shape. They want to shape Verra to their own ideals and vision.

I’ve seen people like that speak against a game’s vision and it’s lead to awful changes. I will speak up when they come looking to change AoC into something that it’s not trying to be.

I guess it’s your forums and you make the rules, but many of us will speak up when others come trying to change AoC away from what you guys set out to build.

When the hype around AoC will rise, this forum will be flooded by this type of players unfortunatly...
They'll whine for change the game into an another WoW/FF14 clone i can already feel the :

"Omg outdoor content wtf please add more instanced content"
"Omg remove PK are you insane ? I want to PvE ONLY"
"WTF i'm loosing ressource during caravan PvP"
"Why only 1% of the players can have flying mount give it to everyone"
"Leveling is too long & boring i don't care about it"
"I'm a casual this game take too much time rework it i can't catch-up with invested players what a shame !"

this will happen 100%

Talents

xQuinnx wrote: »

It doesn't matter... ATM 80% of the target audience for this game are people who do not want to PVP and don't want it forced on them in this style of game. The 1 thing WOW has always done the right way over its lifetime is to protect its PVE only players while making PVP appealing enough for those players to some times PVP if you want to without forcing it. I am not saying ashes has to divide the game into PVP and PVE elements but creating the game with a choice and not a forced situation is a far better system. If ashes refuse to make it a choice then the game will be far to niche and will struggle.

@xQuinnx It's been a long time since I read something so wrong. "80%" of the target audience is not PvE WoW players just because Asmongold reacted to it on stream. WoW did PvP fucking terribly and has never balanced PvP and PvE content well. They literally removed the PvP servers and replaced them with garbage opt-in PvP systems.

You also fail to realise how many MMO players want a good, PvX MMORPG that is not P2W. Look at ArcheAge's launch. At launch, it had so many fucking players, then they added P2W and you could just see the playerbase drop off a cliff.

People like you seem to think MMORPGs should only have PvE content and PvP players should be segregated into instanced arenas/battlegrounds/optional world PvP. You have literally any big Western MMORPG to pick from if you want PvE, let players who want some meaningful PvP have a game for once.

Vhaeyne

Andy wrote: »

When the hype around AoC will rise, this forum will be flooded by this type of players unfortunatly...
They'll whine to change the game into an another WoW/FF14 clone i can already feel the :

"Omg outdoor content wtf please add more instanced content"
"Omg remove PK are you insane ? I want to PvE ONLY"
"WTF i'm loosing ressource during caravan PvP"
"Why only 1% of the players can have flying mount give it to everyone"
"Leveling is too long & boring i don't care about it"
"I'm a casual this game take too much time rework it i can't catch-up with invested players what a shame !"

Neox365 wrote: »

this will happen 100%

It won't happen if Intrepid is consistently upfront and clear that those things will never be in the game. Setting those expectations in stone now will help keep the game design on track, and the community's expectations on track.

Like I said early, only a handful of people are still arguing for DPS meters, but even that topic has been quite for months now. This is because intrepid put down the expectation that we will never see DPS meters.

As a community all we can really do is try to fight these bad ideas as they appear. To make it known that we want to keep the features you listed out of the game.

Dorothy Zbornak

I feel like the people who say the whole map of AoC / the whole game is what OP is describing is missing the underlying premise of what the "PVP Zone" OP is talking about actually is.

I could totally be over-interpreting, but conventionally a "PVP Zone" is used for games where PVP is elsewhere punished or restricted, like the corruption system in AoC. And such PVP Zone is an area with a much looser PVP restriction so that people can attack each other more freely.

So to put the concept in the context of AoC, a PVP zone will not just be an area where PVP is allowed under the corruption system, as it breaks the premise I mentioned if the level of restriction is the same, but instead, for example, an area that automatically flags all players who step inside as combatants so they can kill each other freely.

I feel like Steven claims that AoC encourages a high risk high reward mindset and if that is the case, why shouldn't this zone exist as well let's say in the middle between all four divine nodes(starting points or however they are called)?

This area will have a slightly higher concentration of the highest level of materials/mobs.
If you want it? Get ready for PVP.
If you are afraid? Go around the zone. Spend 10 more minutes to run to a further node with the same level of materials. Call your friends. Or simply don't go inside?

There could still be rules to prevent the zone from being abused, e.g. corrupted players are not allowed so they get what they deserve and can't escape into it; only non-combatants can enter and you can't leave within 30s of killing a player etc.

inb4 someone say big guilds will dominate the area, well it is not specific to this PVP zone is it? it happens to any big scale content with good rewards. This zone can even encourage a lot more friction between those guilds, while keeping the rest of Verra "normal", let alone the fact that the same level of materials also exist somewhere else, simply a bit further and less convenient to get to, with a slightly lower concentration.

Now, this, is truly high risk high reward.

VmanGman

@Dorothy Zbornak Such a PvP zone would attract a lot of PvP attention away from the world and thus make the rest of the world less risk vs. reward and more safe (since a lot of the PvPers will hang in the PvP zone).

AoC wants to be a MMORPG with a seamless open world that is full of adventure. A random PvP zone like what you’re describing would be adding an artificial aspect to the world that is just simply not needed.

The system that they currently have in place sounds great and will create a lively world.

Nagash

Dorothy Zbornak

@VmanGman I get your point and thanks for the input. I am not saying the world intrepid is trying to build won't be great, but I just can't stand people saying a "no" without any reasoning or arguments what-so-ever lmao.

But whether it will attract a lot of PVP attention away really depends on the rule they set on the zone right?
Just throwing in ideas:
1. If even combatants has a % of losing 1 piece of gear in the zone upon death, which is different than somewhere else, it would already discourage a portion of PVPers imo because not everyone is like me who is used to losing everything in my inventory upon death coming from the full loot Albion Online.
2. If you set the rewards potential of this zone to be between normal nodes and the caravan system, then the only time PVPers go to the zone is when there is no caravan events so it won't disrupt the open world events or seamless experience as well?

It could still sound out of place, but if intrepid do decide to implement something like this, they would probably connect it to other contents in some way instead of having a random zone in the middle like you said.

Dargron

Mowaby wrote: »

We don't want a separated experience. We want the risk. We want the rush of getting materials back to town.

This 100%. The rush is a drug. I'm primarily a PvE player, and I love it.

It turns the most mundane, dull, monotonous, repetitive PvE tasks into exciting, unpredictable gameplay when there is always the potential for another player to randomly turn up with the intent to ruin your day or steal your hard earned loot/resources. The simple task of delivering your goods becomes a thrilling adventure of potential ambush around every corner.

This danger inspires players to form real communities, actively band together, depend on one another and look out for one another out of a shared need for safety. It transforms the world from a simple game into a shared life experience. If 80% of the target audience don't want to PvP, I suspect a large portion of them will at least learn to love the challenge of trying to evade it.

Spookk

xQuinnx wrote: »

It doesn't matter... ATM 80% of the target audience for this game are people who do not want to PVP and don't want it forced on them in this style of game. The 1 thing WOW has always done the right way over its lifetime is to protect its PVE only players while making PVP appealing enough for those players to some times PVP if you want to without forcing it. I am not saying ashes has to divide the game into PVP and PVE elements but creating the game with a choice and not a forced situation is a far better system. If ashes refuse to make it a choice then the game will be far to niche and will struggle.

Absolutely true. But you will inflame all of the hardcore PvPers who want to be able to gank folks at will who are pushing against any attempts to allow non-PvP players to ignore them, refuse to engage without penalty, etc. It will essentially be like Archage, and will fail just as hard for the exact same reasons.

Spookk

Ostaff wrote: »

"I sense much fear you, young one."

"Fear leads to the dark side"

"Fear is the mind killer"

But you are totally right, people should play the game as its intended and not try to keep changing it when they aren't the ones actually putting in all the work. And carebear themepark games have definitely killed the mmo market.

That is not what killed them. It is instead cheapness, greed, corporate focus on phone games, sloppiness, lack of imagination, and lack of good programming/engines. Honestly, if Sony would just take the original EQ, and update it to 2021 tech, it would crush everything else, including WoW. Hell, the original game, which I began playing on Win98, STILL puts out expansions, etc, and has a huge playerbase (although nothing like it once was). In fact, EQ plat was THE most traded currency IN THE WORLD for a while. Look it up

VmanGman

Spookk wrote: »

xQuinnx wrote: »

It doesn't matter... ATM 80% of the target audience for this game are people who do not want to PVP and don't want it forced on them in this style of game. The 1 thing WOW has always done the right way over its lifetime is to protect its PVE only players while making PVP appealing enough for those players to some times PVP if you want to without forcing it. I am not saying ashes has to divide the game into PVP and PVE elements but creating the game with a choice and not a forced situation is a far better system. If ashes refuse to make it a choice then the game will be far to niche and will struggle.

Absolutely true. But you will inflame all of the hardcore PvPers who want to be able to gank folks at will who are pushing against any attempts to allow non-PvP players to ignore them, refuse to engage without penalty, etc. It will essentially be like Archage, and will fail just as hard for the exact same reasons.

@Spookk Hahaha just how Albion Online, a much more hardcore PvP game, has failed, right? WoW and FF14 are that way.

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