Angel and demon racial skin

Hey

I hope i placed this in the right place. Personally i am curious if there is at any point going to be a preview of what that angel and demon racial skin some of the kickstart packs mention looks like.

Is there any info on those so far?

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Dreoh

Nelirya wrote: »

I thought that the dress in that months cosmetic was absolutely beautiful! So yeah, people clearly do have different opinions and tastes. I personally am very happy that IS has decided not to cater to only one set style, either very realistic or completely over-the-top bikini style.

Sure, I agree that people find different things appealing. But does Sanctum/Verra use "British attire", or will it literally just be players who wear the skin who you'll see in it? Does it have corgis, or is it players that have the corgis?

Nelirya wrote: »

As to whether or not a specific style can be considered "native to Verra" I think Steven and the IS team are better judges of this than we are.

You're right of course, but sometimes in game development it's easy to slip in to the "This would be neat to add" mindset, and because artists are given a lot of leeway, they could slowly lose sight of the original vision until it's watered down with so many options and styles that it lacks flavour.

All I'm saying is I hope they aren't adding things on whims and are staying true to the vision that was intended.

Edit: Visions can change of course, which is also fine. The difference is, are the whims expanding the vision, or is the vision changing with purpose.

FutureCultLeader

the fact that steven once said, games companies don't need more than their monthly subscription, berated archeage for their design choices that ruined the game and then proceeds to be guilty of both, this early, yikes.

It's a shame because im really really rooting for the success of this game, but everytime they release cutesie cosmetics they are killing their player base a small number of people at a time. The lineage II ultima online lovers that initially backed this game are being left out to dry in favor of gamers that prefer to play dressup over playing a game that has artistic meaningful substance.

Dreoh

FutureCultLeader wrote: »

... a game that has artistic meaningful substance.

This is the crux of it.

Edit:

FutureCultLeader wrote: »

the fact that steven once said, games companies don't need more than their monthly subscription, berated archeage for their design choices that ruined the game and then proceeds to be guilty of both, this early, yikes.

This is literally what I was talking about in my last comment. It's easy for developers to slip into easy bad practices.

FutureCultLeader

Dreoh wrote: »

FutureCultLeader wrote: »

... a game that has artistic meaningful substance.

This is the crux of it.

Edit:

FutureCultLeader wrote: »

the fact that steven once said, games companies don't need more than their monthly subscription, berated archeage for their design choices that ruined the game and then proceeds to be guilty of both, this early, yikes.

This is literally what I was talking about in my last comment. It's easy for developers to slip into easy bad practices.

It'd be really nice to hear from the team if it's going to be possible to turn this off.

It's been mentioned that it'd be really rough if you're forced to level alongside unlored characters like demons and mushroom samurai from an immersion standpoint.

This isn't mentioning that alot of resources from character designers are currently going into cash grab cosmetics instead of in game armor, clothing and enemy character models. One has to imagine it's quite a resource drain, one I'd be OK to forgive if the Kickstart wasnt 2.5 million dollars over goal.

Nelirya

I don't really want to start any arguements or anything, but would you at least be open to the idea that "artistic meaningful substance" means different things to different individuals? For me, beautiful dresses and elegant armour designs classes as the above, for others that is too much, clearly.

As such, is it not better to try finding a good balance between both while keeping as much as possible to the vision of the game, instead of trying to please only one or the other side? So far I can't say that many of the cosmetics have been too radical in either way (other than maybe that Bear mount, but that's again just my personal opinion).

I just never understand how some individuals kick up a fuss as soon as something doesn't meet their taste 100%.

Dreoh

Nelirya wrote: »

I don't really want to start any arguements or anything, but would you at least be open to the idea that "artistic meaningful substance" means different things to different individuals? For me, beautiful dresses and elegant armour designs classes as the above, for others that is too much, clearly.

The difference is what does it mean to the world, not to the players.
When you cater to the infinite variability of personal taste, you end up with watered down aesthetics and ridiculousness everywhere.

Nelirya wrote: »

As such, is it not better to try finding a good balance between both while keeping as much as possible to the vision of the game, instead of trying to please only one or the other side? So far I can't say that many of the cosmetics have been too radical in either way (other than maybe that Bear mount, but that's again just my personal opinion).

I just never understand how some individuals kick up a fuss as soon as something doesn't meet their taste 100%.

It's not that there can't be elegant dresses or anything like that, it's the question of "does the style fit the rest of the game?"

You wouldn't make a feudal Chinese "Romance of the three kingdoms" inspired game and then accept "Western Tuxedo" cosmetics because some players like tuxedos. They don't fit the feudal chinese theme.

Likewise, does "British Dresses" and "corgi" fit the Sanctum/Verra theme?

FutureCultLeader

Nelirya wrote: »

I don't really want to start any arguements or anything, but would you at least be open to the idea that "artistic meaningful substance" means different things to different individuals? For me, beautiful dresses and elegant armour designs classes as the above, for others that is too much, clearly.

As such, is it not better to try finding a good balance between both while keeping as much as possible to the vision of the game, instead of trying to please only one or the other side? So far I can't say that many of the cosmetics have been too radical in either way (other than maybe that Bear mount, but that's again just my personal opinion).

I just never understand how some individuals kick up a fuss as soon as something doesn't meet their taste 100%.

I'd be more than happy if there's an option to turn this off, and give the option to those of us that don't like to be surrounded by the local circus 24/7.

Vhaeyne

Dreoh wrote: »

It's not that there can't be elegant dresses or anything like that, it's the question of "does the style fit the rest of the game?"

Did you not disagree with me a few days ago when I thought the ashes death was less realistic than I thought they were going for?

I mean I agree with you here too, but it seems like the same thing to me. The DEV team decides to reduce realism in favor of a gain in creativity. Immersion takes a hit, but we get a cool death animation or... a dress.

Nelirya

Dreoh wrote: »

Nelirya wrote: »

I don't really want to start any arguements or anything, but would you at least be open to the idea that "artistic meaningful substance" means different things to different individuals? For me, beautiful dresses and elegant armour designs classes as the above, for others that is too much, clearly.

The difference is what does it mean to the world, not to the players.
When you cater to the infinite variability of personal taste, you end up with watered down aesthetics and ridiculousness everywhere.

Nelirya wrote: »

As such, is it not better to try finding a good balance between both while keeping as much as possible to the vision of the game, instead of trying to please only one or the other side? So far I can't say that many of the cosmetics have been too radical in either way (other than maybe that Bear mount, but that's again just my personal opinion).

I just never understand how some individuals kick up a fuss as soon as something doesn't meet their taste 100%.

It's not that there can't be elegant dresses or anything like that, it's the question of "does the style fit the rest of the game?"

You wouldn't make a feudal Chinese "Romance of the three kingdoms" inspired game and then accept "Western Tuxedo" cosmetics because some players like tuxedos. They don't fit the feudal chinese theme.

Likewise, does "British Dresses" and "corgi" fit the Sanctum/Verra theme?

OK sure, makes sense. However, considering royalty is a thing in this game, I don't see why elegance/dresses would be out of place in this game.

As to your question about "British Dresses" and "corgi" fitting the theme - I don't know. But, seeming as they decided to put it into their game, I can only assume they do believe it does.

Anyway like I said, I'm not interested in getting into any arguements here. I have expressed my opinion on the matter, so I am happy to leave it at that

Dreoh

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Dreoh wrote: »

It's not that there can't be elegant dresses or anything like that, it's the question of "does the style fit the rest of the game?"

Did you not disagree with me a few days ago when I thought the ashes death was less realistic than I thought they were going for?

I mean I agree with you here too, but it seems like the same thing to me. The DEV team decides to reduce realism in favor of a gain in creativity. Immersion takes a hit, but we get a cool death animation or... a dress.

Well, the difference here is that the death animation had a lore reason that fit, or seemed to fit, pre-established lore and might have been an intention from the start. That was also more of an argument on "level of fantastical elements" than of style.
It very well might have been something of what I will call "Theme creep" (an alternative to "feature creep"), but the reason for adding it fit very well with what we know of the lore already. I do agree with you that it can be subjective.

Some of the cosmetics (in our limited knowledge of the game and lore) seem to be all over the place. Though it's very possible they were always an intention and part of the original Art Bible.

I'm not saying they are falling to "Theme creep", just that I'm worried they are. My point is that we don't know and just that I am hoping they aren't.

Edit: If the death animation had been "They turn to stone and crumble because it looks cool" then I would have been completely against it, because how does that fit into anything we've seen so far?

Edit2:

Nelirya wrote: »

As to your question about "British Dresses" and "corgi" fitting the theme - I don't know. But, seeming as they decided to put it into their game, I can only assume they do believe it does.

Just to be clear, I don't really mind the corgi cosmetic pack too much and it's not as extreme as I'm making it out to be, I'm just using it as an example since it's the cosmetic pack that seems to be pushing at the seams the most. It could very well have always been a part of Sanctum culture and we just aren't aware of that lore yet.

Nelirya

FutureCultLeader wrote: »

Nelirya wrote: »

I don't really want to start any arguements or anything, but would you at least be open to the idea that "artistic meaningful substance" means different things to different individuals? For me, beautiful dresses and elegant armour designs classes as the above, for others that is too much, clearly.

As such, is it not better to try finding a good balance between both while keeping as much as possible to the vision of the game, instead of trying to please only one or the other side? So far I can't say that many of the cosmetics have been too radical in either way (other than maybe that Bear mount, but that's again just my personal opinion).

I just never understand how some individuals kick up a fuss as soon as something doesn't meet their taste 100%.

I'd be more than happy if there's an option to turn this off, and give the option to those of us that don't like to be surrounded by the local circus 24/7.

Now this I can absolutely agree with. Like I have been saying, people have different tastes and that is perfectly fine. Some sort of an option for what we choose to see and not would be great, if possible.

FutureCultLeader

I don't see this as an arguement more so than a discussion that needs to be had. The community is clearly quite split on the matter. It might be nice to hear from the devs if they are concerned about this. Ideally, having cash shop content servers, and a minority of non-cash shop content servers'd be ideal for me. And not something I think that'd be too far of a stretch for a subscription based game that has a potential player base of this size. I'd immediately shut up about it if this'd be an option.

Dreoh

Yea I'm definitely not trying to argue, just trying to bring what I'm calling "theme creep" to attention.

And maybe someone in the dev team will read through this and see that we are worried and have valid concerns about it.

Vhaeyne

Dreoh wrote: »

Yea I'm definitely not trying to argue, just trying to bring what I'm calling "theme creep" to attention.

And maybe someone in the dev team will read through this and see that we are worried and have valid concerns about it.

Yeah, "theme creep" is a really good term.

I have noticed that even when working with small groups. Everyone has cool ideas they want to bring to the table. Some of them may go against any the original vision for the project, but are too good to leave out. Overtime the original art direction is eroded, and the production is its own new thing. Which is fine to me personally.

Now that I have seen more of the things like the Angel racial skin, I am more accepting of the "fantastical" art direction. The art direction of Tera and Aion was never my favorite, but it also never upset me. I used the word "Whimsical" a lot to describe those games, because to me that was the best word for the style. Ashes leans a little in that direction now, but not as far. Tera takes place in a dream on a turtles back or something silly like that. Some people like it, I prefer a little more verisimilitude, but it never stopped me from playing tera.

I would be lying if I said my favorite asset in ashes "Snail-boi" was not completely whimsical. So maybe I do like whimsical more than I think I do. I guess as long as we don't get beach attire we should count our blessings.

clone63

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I guess as long as we don't get beach attire we should count our blessings.

Fitting to theme of people's varying preferences, I'd take beach attire every day over most of the costume-y or flashy and gaudy stuff, especially mounts. If it is worn in equipment slots, then it stays where you can safely not have armor equipped. Apparel at that, who's to say what fashion could exist in a fake universe with various races?
But getting ganked by a guy with a snowman head riding a plushie pink pony is where I'm likely to rethink the value of my subscription...

Okeydoke

The skins do have the potential to get a little out of hand. When FutureCultLeader mentioned a demon skin player riding around on a fluffy teddy bear mount, it really hit home. I dunno, I don't normally care too much about stuff like this. But hope they can keep it under control somehow.

I think the teddy bear mount is the bigger problem than the demon. Is that a real mount skin?

Edit: It's a real skin.

bloodprophet

We have seen less then 1% of what they are making and people have already lost perspective.
Some place it is quoted that they want people to show off their gear and you will NOT be able to turn it off on your end. Except for large PvP battles where it might need to be done for performance concerns.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Appearance_slots

A "default player appearance" may be automatically applied during sieges or other large scale battles to improve client-side performance.[5][6]

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics

We offer cosmetics for players who wish to support the project early. The exclusive nature of the limited availability is something I think collectors value. If you buy cosmetics as an MMO player, I know I enjoyed if the cosmetic is rare and not every girl at the party is wearing the same dress. In addition, these cosmetics are used to populate the world through NPC variants and color/texture changes so their offering aligns with our production schedule. The good thing about these packs is they contain no P2W advantages and there is no box cost, so from a mechanics standpoint you do not need to buy them to excel in the game on launch. And also, there are comparable and subjectively more grand cosmetics achievable in game as well.[10] – Steven Sharif

Is there an answer that satisfies everyone? Nope. And that's ok. We are open and transparent with our philosophies and business model. You know what you are getting with Ashes and to me, given my experiences in other games, it is a nice breath of fresh air.[34] – Steven Sharif

Dreoh

clone63 wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I guess as long as we don't get beach attire we should count our blessings.

Fitting to theme of people's varying preferences, I'd take beach attire every day over most of the costume-y or flashy and gaudy stuff, especially mounts. If it is worn in equipment slots, then it stays where you can safely not have armor equipped. Apparel at that, who's to say what fashion could exist in a fake universe with various races?
But getting ganked by a guy with a snowman head riding a plushie pink pony is where I'm likely to rethink the value of my subscription...

What I was saying is that's a slippery slope that is very easy for developers to slip off into

Dreoh

@bloodprophet

All of that is true and makes sense, however in practice we've seen a teddy bear mount and overly flashy skins that completely change your race, corgi with a red cloak pet skin, and we're only 1% in.

Edit: Steven said you can't satisfy everyone, so his plan seems to be to cater to the cash shop answer with flashy skins that don't seem to make any sense with the theme of the rest of the game (based off what we've seen so far), instead of keeping sure the integrity of the aesthetics of the game.
Essentially, "He can't satisfy everyone, so he's going to satisfy the people who want teddy bear mounts instead of people who want immersion and the original theme of the game"
Hence the worries.

We don't know enough yet to be sure of anything, but what little we've seen causes worry. Though it could be worry brought upon BY lack of info of course.

bloodprophet

Dreoh wrote: »

@bloodprophet

All of that is true and makes sense, however in practice we've seen a teddy bear mount and overly flashy skins that completely change your race, corgi with a red cloak pet skin, and we're only 1% in.

Edit: Steven said you can't satisfy everyone, so his plan seems to be to cater to the cash shop answer with flashy skins that don't seem to make any sense with the theme of the rest of the game (based off what we've seen so far), instead of keeping sure the integrity of the aesthetics of the game.
Essentially, "He can't satisfy everyone, so he's going to satisfy the people who want teddy bear mounts instead of people who want immersion and the original theme of the game"
Hence the worries.

We don't know enough yet to be sure of anything, but what little we've seen causes worry. Though it could be worry brought upon BY lack of info of course.

They said Teddy was a one off mistake. Your last two lines are the point of my post. Lack of information on our part. We know they are working hard and want us to discover stuff IN game. I am willing to bet we have seen less then 1% of what they have done so far not what will be in at launch and added after.

If I want realism and immersion I'll go out side. We are all here for short term escapism. I happen to like a lot of the cosmetic stuff(including the death animation) except for the bear. I respect the cosmetics they have shown I don't care for as it is all subjective. People need to take a breath and relax. We have 18-24 months maybe longer to go. Lots more to learn and see.

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