Anti-Griefing in game?

I played and loved Lineage 2 from Open Beta and 4 years after launch on the Lionna server. It was my first MMO ever, and it was a brutal lesson on how these games played and worked. My question stems from living with the Lineage 2 flagging system, and how it has work arounds to kill players without going corrupt. Is this being looked into, or will this be another part of the game to help drive PvP on the servers?

In Lineage 2, most of the grief, at first, came from gold farmers who wanted you out of the best farming areas, this included quest areas as well. Listening to Steven on one of the videos they made, he stated that gold farming will an issue they will have to deal with. So knowing the brutal lengths farmers will go to, to protect their real life money operations, I am worried that this will be an issue again, especially since they are already well versed in Lineage 2 flagging and PvP system.

If this issue has been brought up and talked about already, I apologize.

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akabear

Being in L2 for quiet a long time, and moving clans a few times as they dissolved and evolved as well as having waves of alliances to enemy to alliance again meant that a good portion of the pvp was quite friendly as the population was small and the longer term players pretty much knew each other.

With AoC having 10-20x the potential population, I`m interested how the temperament will evolve.

Recluse74

akabear wrote: »

I can literally say similar happened to me.. I lost my blue wolf chest piece to a farmer that trained me in TOI whilst in a party. It was back when a death could incur any inventory or equipped item drop.. back at that time, I was never able to leave the laptop unattended to keep sales up, so I was always cash strapped. So spent the next 30min pleading for them to give it back and they did surprisingly.

My first venture with a party into a dungeon during beta was a scam.. the scammer was inviting groups in, training them with mobs then picking up the gear!

First attempt to get off the starting island to head to the mainland was met with perma-red players that were farming the newbies for gear..

Losing gear and not having the financial backing to replace it did not leave too many options, liquidate warehouse, sell off gear and down grade, seek help from clan, some sought handouts or rerolling with a lower character to build up wealth again.

Am quite glad that gear is somewhat protected..

You just described Lineage 2 in my world too... lmao.

Guy I saw lose his Blue Wolf was In Dion (best town music ever btw).

I got scammed out of my dual samurais by a clanmate.... known him for a year, and he asked to see them.. I traded them to him.. he logged off.. never saw them again. Almost quit as I was poor from crafting them and only had them for a week before I lost them. Older clanmate crafted me a set of Dual Damascus for free 2 days later.... Literally had me misty eyed lol.

Did you ever have the farmers try to sneak trade you in Giran? Where you were about to trade something to a clanmate or friend, and they would sneak in close and start a trade with you, where if you were not paying attention you would give gear and or money to them? God... they were sneaky lol.

Recluse74

akabear wrote: »

Being in L2 for quiet a long time, and moving clans a few times as they dissolved and evolved as well as having waves of alliances to enemy to alliance again meant that a good portion of the pvp was quite friendly as the population was small and the longer term players pretty much knew each other.

With AoC having 10-20x the potential population, I`m interested how the temperament will evolve.

Nodes seem to be the wild card here. Each node is bound to have fighting amongst its population, but then would have to pull together to protect that node if attacked... guilds leaving nodes to search for a node more their speed... this game is going to take awhile to feel out and get the politics figured out. It is actually exciting.

George_Black

Hahhahahah
Shows how great items were in L2.
Not like todays mmos with every npc giving you an item, or with every dungeon run you walk away with 30 more items

akabear

@Recluse74 It would be great if each node was relatively self sufficient and world big enough that we ended up with almost parochial non-nomadic communities and that had only a real need to interact with another node for fame, war or trade creating individual colonies that could be quite different.

I recall what became a humorous daily challenge, teaming up with another ranger from my clan to grief an enemy ranger who would xp in our clan`s clan hall zone.

Full buffs, we would get the jump on him and even though 2 vs 1, we got our asses handed to us 8 of 9 times. He had a glass cannon, we both had solid builds and in the end it was almost treated as training as we could not work out how getting seveal back shot crits in before a response back and still got creamed!

akabear

@Recluse74 In relation to farmers, I was fortunate not to be scanned.. I was probably a bit contradictory at the time though, if a farming / botting group was taking prime area we would pk them, but if they were in a quite area and would give out buffs then I left them alone

BobzUrUncle

akabear wrote: »

I can literally say similar happened to me.. I lost my blue wolf chest piece to a farmer that trained me in TOI whilst in a party. It was back when a death could incur any inventory or equipped item drop.. back at that time, I was never able to leave the laptop unattended to keep sales up, so I was always cash strapped. So spent the next 30min pleading for them to give it back and they did surprisingly.

My first venture with a party into a dungeon during beta was a scam.. the scammer was inviting groups in, training them with mobs then picking up the gear!

First attempt to get off the starting island to head to the mainland was met with perma-red players that were farming the newbies for gear..

Losing gear and not having the financial backing to replace it did not leave too many options, liquidate warehouse, sell off gear and down grade, seek help from clan, some sought handouts or rerolling with a lower character to build up wealth again.

Am quite glad that gear is somewhat protected..

I don't get how this can happen in AoC. PvE doesn't drop items. Only corrupt characters have the chance to drop equipment.
I can't see how someone else can force me to turn purple or red. My understanding is that only if I attack a player character do I turn purple. Is that wrong?

Bricktop

BobzUrUncle wrote: »

akabear wrote: »

I can literally say similar happened to me.. I lost my blue wolf chest piece to a farmer that trained me in TOI whilst in a party. It was back when a death could incur any inventory or equipped item drop.. back at that time, I was never able to leave the laptop unattended to keep sales up, so I was always cash strapped. So spent the next 30min pleading for them to give it back and they did surprisingly.

My first venture with a party into a dungeon during beta was a scam.. the scammer was inviting groups in, training them with mobs then picking up the gear!

First attempt to get off the starting island to head to the mainland was met with perma-red players that were farming the newbies for gear..

Losing gear and not having the financial backing to replace it did not leave too many options, liquidate warehouse, sell off gear and down grade, seek help from clan, some sought handouts or rerolling with a lower character to build up wealth again.

Am quite glad that gear is somewhat protected..

I don't get how this can happen in AoC. PvE doesn't drop items. Only corrupt characters have the chance to drop equipment.
I can't see how someone else can force me to turn purple or red. My understanding is that only if I attack a player character do I turn purple. Is that wrong?

If you died to a mob in PvE in L2 you had the chance to (sometimes) drop gear. Probably won't work that way in Ashes so don't worry about it.

tautau

In L2, if you healed a purple, you became purple. I was a healer. One fellow asked for a heal and I obliged. But during the casting he slapped me and he went purple. So when the heal dropped on him, I went purple and he killed me.

From then on, if a stranger asked for a heal, I would make him sit down and heal from a distance.

Recluse74

tautau wrote: »

In L2, if you healed a purple, you became purple. I was a healer. One fellow asked for a heal and I obliged. But during the casting he slapped me and he went purple. So when the heal dropped on him, I went purple and he killed me.

From then on, if a stranger asked for a heal, I would make him sit down and heal from a distance.

This is a perfect example of what I meant for this thread to cover.

I said I would not tell this story.. but after thinking about for a bit .. I will.

I went corrupt on a gold farmer partly because I was goaded into it and I got a tad angry and wanted to throw my ego around at a player who was messing with one of my guild members.

It went down like this...

Light elf harassing my clan mate...
I go to help out.
I am level 66, going to help out with some level 20ish farmers... no problem at all.
I show up, guild mate is standing by the gates at Dion, getting punched in the face by this naked light elf.
Elf turns purple, then runs into the city (3 feet away) where PvP was not allowed.
If my friend went to go level, they would follow him out and heal his mobs and smack him around to lower his HP in hopes the mob would kill him.
So I decided this was enough. Told my friend to log off, so their attention would be on me for a few minutes.
So the elf started smacking me and going purple, running into the city limits, turn back to white ... rinse repeat. This literally went on for 10 to 15 minutes... actually remember getting up and make some food and coming back to him still smacking and running.

So at this point I decided I was done with it all, I was going to kill him the next time he went purple. Here is where I made my first mistake. I activated my Soul Shot, which was not needed for this fight... it was just muscle memory I guess. For those who do not know, Soul Shot was a damage buff item, that when activated made a "light saber" type noise and made your weapons glow brightly when first activated. This clue let them know I was ready to go for the kill...

So this elf comes back out... puts on Blue Wolf armor to either mock me (I was wearing it too), or to make me think he was higher level than lead to believe because he was naked before. He just stands there and starts typing in the way only farmers can type.. "55555" "11111" "I luv u"... and so on. Now Im getting heated... I feel mocked... I feel like this kills is going to feel good.

And that is when it happens.. My second mistake.. I see his hand coming in for the slap.. my trigger finger was sitting ready on my most powerful Gladiator move I could find.... Just as I see his fist make contact with my face, I squeeze the trigger.... again.. Im holding down control out of muscle memory and my gladiator goes into a twirling light of damage and emotional release lol... And the ELF is DEAD!

The problem was... he was not slapping me.. he was doing an emote that resembled a slap and I fell for it and I am red as red can be......

I was now running scared because the elf's friend was higher level ranger. Thank god he was not high enough to kill me.. but enough to scare me lol.

Came back later and watched them do it 5 or so more people... which lead to the one guy losing his Chest piece.

Farmers... so crafty. I hated and respected them at the same time.

tautau

One good story deserves another.

Back when you could make good money on D and C grades shots in L2, I had an alt dwarf I used for shot making and a shot store. I also had an anti-griefer archer with fake death.

There were several remote areas where bots would constantly farm. A couple of times a day, carefully at varying times, my archer would drop trains of aggro on the bots (never on human players).

I got enough gear dropped from the bots to keep my shot making dwarf out of mana and selling shots quite profitably. I also had a lot of fun and felt like I was doing a good deed by hindering the botters.

Recluse74

tautau wrote: »

One good story deserves another.

Back when you could make good money on D and C grades shots in L2, I had an alt dwarf I used for shot making and a shot store. I also had an anti-griefer archer with fake death.

There were several remote areas where bots would constantly farm. A couple of times a day, carefully at varying times, my archer would drop trains of aggro on the bots (never on human players).

I got enough gear dropped from the bots to keep my shot making dwarf out of mana and selling shots quite profitably. I also had a lot of fun and felt like I was doing a good deed by hindering the botters.

Hero! I watched a guy train bots in Dragon Valley one day... I think he made off with some good drops of his own lol.

Do you remember the name of that place that was in the swamp area not far from Dion? It was like a square like building with multiple floors. For some reason I cannot remember for the life of the name of that place.

Edit: Nevermind... looked on a map.. Cruma Tower is the name of the place.. was not as square as I remember either.

tautau

I loved the Dion area. Running thru the swamp with my camera dipping under the edge of the water, I would find all kinds of overlooked drops. Remember those giant turtle shells?

Cruma Tower was great. I recall one of the dwarf class change quest required accessing a chest upstairs that was very hard to get to. But, if you logged in right after the weekly maintenance, you had about 90 seconds to run through before all the mobs spawned and could get to it.

What was that area east of Dion, like a huge pit and plants as mobs?

Recluse74

East was the Execution Grounds, did not spend much time there myself, but did make a few trips. Ruins of despair was to the west.

Noaani

Recluse74 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Recluse74 wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Recluse74 wrote: »

Anyone that played Lineage 2 knows how this system works. It is free now.. go download it and play a bit with it.

Lineage 2 is not ashes of creation

But the PvP flagging and corrupt system was taken from that exact game.. ask Steven.

There is a major difference.

If I cast an AoE in Ashes and you walk in to it, it doesn't do any damage to you.

Currently, the only way to get corruption in Ashes is to kill a player that isn't fighting back. In order to force corruption on a player, you would need to cause them to kill a player they didn't intend to kill.

Since I cant damage a player without enabling that, you cant force me to kill someone I do not specifically chose to allow my abilities to do damage to.

Now, if you have another way in which corruption can be forced on others, let us all know. Either we will tell you why you are mistaken, or we will attempt to get it addressed in alpha.

Guess what!!!??? You could walk into an AoE and not get damaged in Lineage 2 either... funny how this same scenario keeps popping up... You mention a somewhat new mechanic, to you, in AoC, that was a mainstay.... in Lineage 2.

As far as I am aware, in L2 if you walked in to an AoE from a player in PvP, you would take damage from that AoE.

In Ashes, if I am fighting domeone and you walk in to my AoE, you dont take damage. I have to attack you directly before you take damage from AoE's. If someone else in your group comes along, I still have to attack them directly as well.

Maybe this is how it works in L2, I'm not overly concerned if I have it wrong.

Perhaps the main thing here is that basically every person saying "I lost an item because of..." had someone train mobs on to them. Since you dont lose items if you are killed by a mob - even if you are corrupt - this is a non issue in Ashes.

If there are other methods that can be used, again, let us know and we will test them out in alpha (or when ever we first get our hands on the corruption system).

I mean, unless these are things you want to see in the game at release.

akabear

Your right about the losing of gear.. but I imagine if someone that has been gathering for some period of time for quite valuable items and loses them in conflict may chose a time to "remember" later.

To reduce risk of dropping important stuff when planning to go red, we used to just fill our inventories with additional junk!

Early on in game, when I saw sets of people smack talking at each other, which usually lead to pk`ing or pvp, I would run to town, fill up on soul shots and run back and setup a stall at the groups feet!

Nothing better to fill your pockets with gold than from people in conflict and immediate need.

In the early days, only richer players or players that wanted more effect in their firing used soul shots.. Soul shots boosted a regular impact of a physical or magical attack... Later as the game matured, using soul shots became the norm.

Noaani

akabear wrote: »

To reduce risk of dropping important stuff when planning to go red, we used to just fill our inventories with additional junk!

While this may work in games that are almost 20 years old, it would be easy to develop around that now.

Back then, they would have wanted to save system resources by just randomly picking an item. Now, they could opt to use a far more complex data set to create a list of items that players may drop.

As to losing harvests, keep in mind that players will have fairly small inventories and so will need to head back to town to deposit what they have gathered quite frequently.

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