Mounts, Creatures and Player Characters should Look, Move, Sound and Feel like they have weight

Hello Friends

Little Disclaimer:
I'm fully aware that we are currently still Pre-Alpha and everything is still being worked on.
I still want to bring attention to this, because it is Important to me.

Do you feel like the creatures we've seen so far in Ashes of Creation have a lot of weight to them, in their Movement and all?
Of course that is probably not the focus right now, because they surely got more Important things to work on.

Yet it is still Important at the end that Mounts, Creatures and even Player Characters look, move, sound, and feel like they have weight to them when they are done.
I honestly don't know, when it would be a better time to talk about this than before the game is released.

A good example of what I'm talking about happens to be a Guild Wars 2 Video that shows off a Mount, and with how well it is done, it's honestly quite impressive.
They start running around on it at like 1 minute 30 seconds in the Video, and you can easily see, hear and maybe even get a feel for the weight and the mass of this Mount.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLwuXBp6URQ
Is this a Level of Quality that Ashes of Creation is aiming to reach, or even surpass at some time during it's Lifetime?
Maybe something that could be done via updates some time after launch, when there is the time and founding to think about things like this?

I would really love to be spoiled with something like that in Ashes of Creation at some point in the future.

I might be asking a bit much here, but remember that when we “Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.”

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Vhaeyne

We kind of have opposite opinions here. Nothing wrong with that, but here is my take...

I don't think animations feeling "weighty" is important in any way. FFXIV and WOW are the top two MMOs, and the animations in those games are floaty as can be. Characters can feel completely detached from their worlds. Like the character is in its own world within the world. What is most important is that animations are fluid and consistent. Say what you like about WOW/FFXIV, but the animations in both games are constant and fluid.

The problem that I have with "weighty" animations is that they slow the game down. It is the kind of stuff that makes me not want to play games. I am a relatively athletic person. When I feel like I could move faster than my character. That is a major problem. A lot of these games with "weighty" animations have characters that move slower than I can. I hate this. Less is more, Keep it simple stupid, ect...

ViBunja

I agree that mounts should feel more alive and realistic since they will also have their own speed and there is mount combat. Adding this elements will be no different than characters.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

We kind of have opposite opinions here. Nothing wrong with that, but here is my take...

I don't think animations feeling "weighty" is important in any way. FFXIV and WOW are the top two MMOs, and the animations in those games are floaty as can be. Characters can feel completely detached from their worlds. Like the character is in its own world within the world. What is most important is that animations are fluid and consistent. Say what you like about WOW/FFXIV, but the animations in both games are constant and fluid.

The problem that I have with "weighty" animations is that they slow the game down. It is the kind of stuff that makes me not want to play games. I am a relatively athletic person. When I feel like I could move faster than my character. That is a major problem. A lot of these games with "weighty" animations have characters that move slower than I can. I hate this. Less is more, Keep it simple stupid, ect...

GW2 is the third big MMO with the best mount mechanics out there. They are also combat enabled. Sometimes less is less, and stupid is stupid. GW2 also has a nice combat system that will be similar to AoC way more than FFXIV and WoW will be, animations are fluid and constant.

AoC is meant to be a slow game, not a fast pace game like WoW or FFXIV. they are nice comparisons, but if I wanted to play FFXIV or WoW, I would be playing those.FFXIV is anime, WoW is cartoonish. AoC tries to be realistic and I like that, we don't need those two.

Remember, that fast travel will be rare and the main focus in traveling. Mounts need to be about right, unlike WoW or FFIXV and even GW2 where you can ignore mounts altogether by fast traveling, AoC will have a main focus on traveling through mounts.

Teyloune

Unlike World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy 14, where you might be able to just ignore the floatyness of it all, thanks to other means of fast travel. In Ashes of Creation you are going to spend a lot of time travelling around, on foot, mount or otherwise. If travelling isn't an enjoyable experience, because of weird floatyness or other reasons, then we got a part of the gameplay which people are regularly experiencing, that isn't enjoyable.
Do people want to be regularly subjected to gameplay which they don't enjoy?

Vhaeyne

ViBunja wrote: »

But you forgot GW2 is the third big MMO with the best mount mechanics out there. They are also combat enabled. Sometimes less is less, and stupid is stupid. GW2 also has a nice combat system that will be similar to AoC way more than FFXIV and WoW will be, animations are fluid and constant.

You forgot AoC is meant to be a slow game, not a fast pace game like WoW or FFXIV. they are nice comparisons, but it sounds you want AoC to be more of WoW and FFXIV and it's going to be different than those two.

GW2 is not third though. Old School Runescape, ESO, WOW Classic, and Destiny 2 all have larger populations than GW2.

I think GW2 has one of the worst combat systems. To me It is just awful. If you really like GW2 that is fine but to me personally GW1 was better.

Ashes in meant to be a slow game? I have never heard anyone say that. Very skeptical.

You also said FFXIV is fast paced like WOW? The 2.5 sec GCD determined that to be a lie. Positioning is more demanding in savage/ultimate, but the combat is mostly slow.

Not trying to come across as a contrarian. I just did not see much that I did not take issue with in your reply.
I am sure we will get some quick animations that look good and satisfy both of us.

Noaani

Teyloune wrote: »

If travelling isn't an enjoyable experience, because of weird floatyness or other reasons, then we got a part of the gameplay which people are regularly experiencing, that isn't enjoyable.
Do people want to be regularly subjected to gameplay which they don't enjoy?

Travel isn't going to be enjoyable regardless of how "weighty" it feels, as it is still just travel.

If you are focusing on what your character looks like while travelling, I hope we play on the same server.

ViBunja

Vhaeyne wrote: »

GW2 is not third though. Old School Runescape, ESO, WOW Classic, and Destiny 2 all have larger populations than GW2.

I think GW2 has one of the worst combat systems. To me It is just awful. If you really like GW2 that is fine but to me personally GW1 was better.

Ashes in meant to be a slow game? I have never heard anyone say that. Very skeptical.

You also said FFXIV is fast paced like WOW? The 2.5 sec GCD determined that to be a lie. Positioning is more demanding in savage/ultimate, but the combat is mostly slow.

Not trying to come across as a contrarian. I just did not see much that I did not take issue with in your reply.
I am sure we will get some quick animations that look good and satisfy both of us.

You are so going to hate AoC then since GW2 has a hybrid of tab target and action system, which Ashes is aiming for, they do are going to use also dodging just like GW2. Ashes is meant to be a slow game due the limitations of fast travel, only available with a certain nodes, at a certain level with a certain building, most of the travel will happen through mounts, but let met tell you, I was talking about mounted combat, not the actual combat since mounts in AoC will have combat systems.

Here, pay attention, the main focus is traveling and mounts in here, FFXIV is a fast pace game like WoW because in both games you have fast travel. you can be in seconds on the edge of the world to the other edge, this will be impossible in AoC not even in village you will be able to move there, making AoC a slow game. Yes, FFXIV has a slow combat, but traveling through the world is just extremely fast. We weren't talking about that combat.

It's simple, mounts are a big important part of the game. They need to be right

Vhaeyne

ViBunja wrote: »

You are so going to hate AoC then since GW2 has a hybrid of tab target and action system, which Ashes is aiming for, they do are going to use also dodging just like GW2. Ashes is meant to be a slow game due the limitations of fast travel, only available with a certain nodes, at a certain level with a certain building, most of the travel will happen through mounts, but let met tell you, I was talking about mounted combat, not the actual combat since mounts in AoC will have combat systems.

GW2 is not hybrid. It is Tab-target with a dodge roll.

I realize you are going to have to walk around in Ashes. I am one of the people that advocate for the removal of family summons. I want the travel time to be more brutal than most people in the community I assure you.

ViBunja wrote: »

Here, pay attention, the main focus is traveling and mounts in here, FFXIV is a fast pace game like WoW because in both games you have fast travel. you can be in seconds on the edge of the world to the other edge, this will be impossible in AoC not even in village you will be able to move there, making AoC a slow game. Yes, FFXIV has a slow combat, but traveling through the world is just extremely fast. We weren't talking about that combat.

It's simple, mounts are a big important part of the game. They need to be right

I was never talking about travel. We are talking about animations in this thread. Traveling is just a small part of that. My main point is that "Weighty" animations slow down combat.

Dygz

Ashes is a high fantasy setting. We literally can float with the right spells, so... I'm not really going to quibble about weight since other people could be using magic in a variety of ways to lighten their weight.

I think our characters are going to have to run faster than Humans run in real life - which could give us a sense of floatiness and not having realistic weight. Especially as our characters run up hill, I think it won't look or feel like realistic weight.

I think there will be a certain amount of weightiness the devs will strive for.
I think whatever WoW had was fine.
But...we'll have to play to know.

Tyranthraxus

Until the comments Steven directly made during the latest AoC updates, yours truly had no idea that:

1) mounts had PvP combat capacities/roles

2) that mounts could be mounted in order to aid in the escaping of combat

And - as always - that the previews of mount-meat are lacking in detail as to how processed the by-products of beloved animal-meats will be able to go, in AoC....

Dygz

ViBunja wrote: »

AoC is meant to be a slow game, not a fast pace game like WoW or FFXIV. they are nice comparisons, but it sounds you want AoC to be more of WoW and FFXIV and it's going to be different than those two.

Ashes is going to be different than WoW and FFXIV.
Feels to me like the combat is going to be faster than WoW.
The art is not as cartoony as WoW. Probably not as cartoony as FFXIV.
I don't know what you mean by slow game. APOC did not feel slower to me than WoW.

Vhaeyne

Tyranthraxus wrote: »

Until the comments Steven directly made during the latest AoC updates, yours truly had no idea that:

1) mounts had PvP combat capacities/roles

2) that mounts could be mounted in order to aid in the escaping of combat

And - as always - that the previews of mount-meat are lacking in detail as to how processed the by-products of beloved animal-meats will be able to go, in AoC....

I have not won every PvP skirmish I have been in the Mortal Online 2 beta these past few weeks... I have however killed every mount that has carried a person that has shot at me in the beta thus far. It never gets old seeing the mount die out from under them...

I am hoping it is as satisfying in Ashes.

If I find out I can make buff food from peoples dead mounts... Well mine truly... I know how I will get my beloved animal-meats...

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

ViBunja wrote: »

AoC is meant to be a slow game, not a fast pace game like WoW or FFXIV. they are nice comparisons, but it sounds you want AoC to be more of WoW and FFXIV and it's going to be different than those two.

Ashes is going to be different than WoW and FFXIV.
Feels to me like the combat is going to be faster than WoW.
The art is not as cartoony as WoW. Probably not as cartoony as FFXIV.
I don't know what you mean by slow game. APOC did not feel slower to me than WoW.

I think he just means travel, but it took me a few reply's to figure that out.

ViBunja

Vhaeyne wrote: »

GW2 is not hybrid. It is Tab-target with a dodge roll.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I realize you are going to have to walk around in Ashes. I am one of the people that advocate for the removal of family summons. I want the travel time to be more brutal than most people in the community I assure you.

Not much as me, I wanted more of a survival MMO. Where a level 1 would shit on a party of 8 at level 3 if one made a single mistake, and unkillable mobs where brains would take over brawl.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I was never talking about travel. We are talking about animations in this thread. Traveling is just a small part of that. My main point is that "Weighty" animations slow down combat.

It should be like that, it's what makes the game more brutal.

Arkson

While I absolutely agree that your characters animations should feel solid and have impact from a visual perspective, I really hope they don't shy too much away from the 'floaty' gameplay feel of the way your character controls in something like wow or ff14. I think it's far more important for your control of your character in an mmo to be snappy and responsive, to feel like you're really the one controlling it and not fighting against the game, and fake weight or realism shouldn't try to get in the way of that. In MMO's more than pretty much any other game, you'll be spending a LOT of downtime just walking and running around, that simple interaction needs to be fun above all else.

There's a reason I get caught frequently just running laps or exploring, trying to climb random objects and just jumping around in those games. It's because movement is simply enjoyable and feels like you're controlling the character. When you move there's immediate response, there's almost never a moment of frustration with your character moving in a way you didn't intend. Compare that to running around in a weighty game like BDO for instance, while the combat in that game is beautiful and fluid, simply trying to climb or jump a small fence completely breaks your momentum and feels like clunky trash. The jump is terrible and awkward, movement is unresponsive and slow. It's just wholly unsatisfying to control.

For mounts though I think I'd agree fully, especially with them having their own stats and skills, feeling like another entity that you're controlling would be fine, and even add to the gameplay of choosing the one right for you.

Dygz

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I think he just means travel, but it took me a few reply's to figure that out.

I still want to see the quote for Ashes being a slow game with regard to travel.
Ashes will have very limited "fast travel".
That's not the same thing as travel in Ashes being "realistic". It's also not the same thing as saying travel in Ashes will be slower than WoW due to weight mechanics.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

I still want to see the quote for Ashes being a slow game with regard to travel.
Ashes will have very limited "fast travel".
That's not the same thing as travel in Ashes being "realistic". It's also not the same thing as saying travel in Ashes will be slower than WoW due to weight mechanics.

I guess the assumption is that our mounts will move at a snails pace... I mean mine will, but that is not the point... LOL

ViBunja wrote: »

A dodge roll does not magically turn tab-target into a hybrid between action combat and tab-target. If that was the case you might as well say FFXIV is hybrid. Everyone has a move calls "Sprint" that makes you run faster for a few seconds. While you don't get baby I-frames with Sprint, people do use it to dodge attacks all the time.

Asgerr

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I don't think animations feeling "weighty" is important in any way. FFXIV and WOW are the top two MMOs, and the animations in those games are floaty as can be. Characters can feel completely detached from their worlds. Like the character is in its own world within the world. What is most important is that animations are fluid and consistent. Say what you like about WOW/FFXIV, but the animations in both games are constant and fluid.

Though I would agree with that in FFXIV, I have to disagree that it's the case for WoW.

Having played both of those, I do feel like FFXIV has the lighter animation of the two in regards to general movement. However the attacks and spells feel substantial and like they have some impact. Others may dislike the flashy visuals but that's a different argument.

WoW does have a more grounded and weighty feel to its movement, even if you can jump your own height and can be floaty here and there.
In combat the attacks appear to have momentum and weight, which makes a lot of it feel gratifying and responsive.

As to the larger topic at hand, I have had much of the same feedback to offer in regards to the current level of animations.

In terms of movement it does seem like the characters a bit too floaty. I'm not sure how much of it is a lack of heft in the steps and how much of it is the stunted torso/shoulders barely moving.

In combat, the base weapon swings, do seem to be essentially static torsos with flailing arms that swing weapons. Though that worked for APOC in its context as a BR game, it certainly feels out of place now.

I have to say, though, that the animations for the active skills (the ones where you push numbers on your keyboard) do have a lot more heft, save one or two for which we have already given some feedback.

In regards to mounts, I personally am perfectly fine with what has been presented up until now.

Dygz

Well, yeah... that being said... we're in pre-alpha, so...
They're getting movement to a point where it feels somewhat OK for people to test.
It's not necessarily indicative of how they want movement to feel at launch.

Wandering Mist

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

I still want to see the quote for Ashes being a slow game with regard to travel.
Ashes will have very limited "fast travel".
That's not the same thing as travel in Ashes being "realistic". It's also not the same thing as saying travel in Ashes will be slower than WoW due to weight mechanics.

I guess the assumption is that our mounts will move at a snails pace... I mean mine will, but that is not the point... LOL

ViBunja wrote: »

A dodge roll does not magically turn tab-target into a hybrid between action combat and tab-target. If that was the case you might as well say FFXIV is hybrid. Everyone has a move calls "Sprint" that makes you run faster for a few seconds. While you don't get baby I-frames with Sprint, people do use it to dodge attacks all the time.

Technically any combat system that has a mixture of hard-locked abilities and aimed abilities is hybrid combat - That includes WoW, GW2 and FFXIV. They are all hybrid combat systems to a degree. In fact, the only mmorpg I can think of that is purely tab target is Runescape.

Wandering Mist

Getting back on the topic of mounts, I'm on the fence about it. I do want the mounts to feel like they have a decent amount of weight and move the way they look, but at the same time the slippery, almost unresponsive controls of the GW2 mounts frustrate me when I'm trying to move around.

Child Item