Infinite semi-passive progression system [Dance Dance Revolution]

I would like to see a sort of infinite progression system in AOC that doesn't rely on grinding or daily quests or logins. Just a passive/semi-passive system for either each character, or for the account.

In Eve Online, the way you get skills is you basically pick a skill and wait X amount of real life time for it to finish. In the beginning it takes minutes, then hours, days, and weeks. Other than adding skills to the skill-queue, you really don't have to spend much ingame playing time on character progression.

For AOC I only want a similar system in spirit. It shouldn't increase character combat ability I think, for balance purposes, but there are other things we can do. Obviously this is scope creep, so I don't want it to delay release, just sometime after.

Below is one idea, but I am sure you guys can think of more.

Dance Dance Revolution

Dance moves. You start with a side step, then you can train more and more steps, twists, twirls and poses along the way, so that after a couple of years of RL time you can dazzle all the newbies with your

EPIC

dance moves. Combine it with a choreography system, where you put in your moves in the desired order and save the finished dance, so you can fire it off with the push of a button. Let characters specialize in different styles, so not everyone is the same.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Khronus

I have to disagree from the deepest depths of my soul on this one. You want a progression system that doesn't require me to play the game to progress? You want a clash of clans style progression where I click a button and then wait a couple days, then weeks, then months? This entire system was designed for pay to win and boosts to timers.

Even on something as simple as dancing in the game, I have to wait years to see my character dance? There are better ways to implement things like this that don't involve clicking and waiting imo. I'm glad I never played Eve online. I could have just download an idle game off the app store instead.

Lochnxss

Khronus wrote: »

I have to disagree from the deepest depths of my soul on this one. You want a progression system that doesn't require me to play the game to progress? You want a clash of clans style progression where I click a button and then wait a couple days, then weeks, then months? This entire system was designed for pay to win and boosts to timers.

Even on something as simple as dancing in the game, I have to wait years to see my character dance? There are better ways to implement things like this that don't involve clicking and waiting imo. I'm glad I never played Eve online. I could have just download an idle game off the app store instead.

Agreed

Nerror

Khronus wrote: »

Even on something as simple as dancing in the game, I have to wait years to see my character dance? There are better ways to implement things like this that don't involve clicking and waiting imo. I'm glad I never played Eve online. I could have just download an idle game off the app store instead.

Lol ok. Well it is certainly clear you didn't play Eve online, because you missed the point on that one. It's nothing like an idle app game. And no, not like Clash of clans either, or many of the mobile games that timegate your power, unless you p2w. AOC will have the standard progression systems when it comes to combat/power/crafting etc. with the occasional reset by increasing the level cap. My suggestion isn't changing that at all.

With my idea you'll be able to dance to your hearts content in days, with many cool dance moves to pick from. But it'll take a year or two or whatever to get them all.

Or some other fluff thing you can do with the system. Doesn't have to be dancing.

Feel free to disagree with the idea all you want obviously, but you are currently doing so on a completely different premise than the idea suggested.

Edit: Have you played MMOs where dancing wasn't just handed to you by typing /emote dance1 or whatever? Zero effort required. If so, please elaborate.

theploughman

what

Blackhearted

Im going to be blunt on this one because it sounds horrible.
I hate all sorts of afk mechanics... if you want to progress on something on your character you should use your ingame time on it. Using your ingame time on something shouldnt feel like waste of time. You should focus on progressing and mastering things you like to do. If you like to progress your dancing you should enjoy it enough to go dancing in taverns and streets on your ingame time.

Dygz

Right. I think a mechanic where skills level up from usage would be better received than a mechanic where skill level up simply due to passage of time...even afk time.

Roelath

Never liked EVE's skill system. Having skillups being based upon length of time in the real world isn't fun/engaging. Having to wait 2-3 real world days in order for my character to read a book in order to use a new ship was such bore. It rewarded long term players with better skillsets that couldn't be achieved in a short span of time so it was always going to be lopsided in terms of balance.

Jirue

Personally I enjoy an occasional Idle Game, so seeing some of the same mechanics in an MMO wouldn't bother me at all if it's not a mechanic built purposely to sell some kinda cash shop item. I have no issues with setting something up that progress in the background and I can come back to later after doing some dungeons.

Least if it's implemented the way I'm thinking in my head, which would be similar to something like Stardew Valley where you set up crops to do their thing then come back in a few days after doing some cave diving to get experience from harvesting stuff and then set up the next round of things to grow (the general system of setup, do other content, return for rewards is a fine system to me). I plan to enjoy AoC casually though, so I can understand such systems not appealing to people planning to pour hours every day into the game.

Nerror

Jirue wrote: »

Personally I enjoy an occasional Idle Game, so seeing some of the same mechanics in an MMO wouldn't bother me at all if it's not a mechanic built purposely to sell some kinda cash shop item.

Oh god yeah, it should not be tied to the cash shop at all. That would be horrible.

VmanGman

You're basically asking for a system that rewards you based on the period of time you have played the game. At that point it would make more sense in my opinion to make it cleaner by tying these rewards to the amount of time someone has been subscribed.

Going with your dance moves example: if you have been subscribed for 3 months you get this dance move, if you have been subscribed for 6 months you get this other dance perk etc. (the subscription can be interrupted and if you resubscribe, the counter would start from where you last left off).

Khronus

@nerror Look, I really am trying to see your perspective but I'm having trouble imagining how it would be implemented here in a way that the AoC community would support. Give me some examples other than the dancing thing if you don't mind. Dancing in game is not something I care about (in fact it's annoying...especially during raids when I am trying to organize the raid and plan the next attempt haha).

Jirue

VmanGman wrote: »

At that point it would make more sense in my opinion to make it cleaner by tying these rewards to the amount of time someone has been subscribed.

Ah, so the Veteran Reward system from FFXIV then? Would make sense to tie time progression to subscription length in a subscription game.

Ferni

I don't really get the idea either. I guess I'm missing something, but why do you want to progress in the game by not playing the game itself?

I think we need more examples to fully understand the idea you are proposing but if the idea is some kind of afk/idle system I'm totally against it.

Nerror

VmanGman wrote: »

You're basically asking for a system that rewards you based on the period of time you have played the game. At that point it would make more sense in my opinion to make it cleaner by tying these rewards to the amount of time someone has been subscribed.

Yes it is close to a type of veteran reward system. Veteran rewards are ok I guess. I don't really have a problem with them, but I also think they are uninspiring. Everyone gets the same thing after X months, without having to do anything for it other than pay the subscription. They don't even have to log into the game.

Khronus wrote: »

@nerror Look, I really am trying to see your perspective but I'm having trouble imagining how it would be implemented here in a way that the AoC community would support. Give me some examples other than the dancing thing if you don't mind.

Ferni wrote: »

I don't really get the idea either. I guess I'm missing something, but why do you want to progress in the game by not playing the game itself?

Ok, I'll try to explain this from a different angle.

I like character progress that isn't just gear based. The more different types the merrier. In fact, I really dislike when all I have left to progress on a character is gear. Especially because they will raise the level cap once in a while, completely resetting all the gear progress.

In AOC we'll have character levels, artisan levels, society and religion levels, naval skills and possibly more. These directly or indirectly affect how strong or versatile you are in combat. Artisan levels mainly by having better gear possibly, or at least the resources to buy it.

I firmly believe it's the ability of the game to foster a strong community that will make or break it. It's clearly what they are going for at least. We'll get parlor games and taverns. I think we should also get dancing and music and theater through an extensive emote system, so people can have fun with that ingame, as well as make silly/funny machinima memes and videos on youtube.

The core gameplay with the node system will be the main driver for creating this sense of community, and it should stay the main focus of players time in the game, in my opinion. However, all the fluff like dancing and music and games can strengthen it. I believe it's important to the game, but I also don't want it to take time away from the core gameplay, if people want to pursue it.

Sure, the developers could just hand it all to us, without the need to learn stuff over time as my idea is about. Everyone can do the same things. Or, horror of horrors, they could add it to the cash shop

My preference is getting all the emotes and such through a more gamified and structured system that both reward the amount of time subscribed (like veteran rewards, but better because we get player choice and agency), and it gives the developers a framework they can lean on, instead of making ad hoc design decisions. I think we, the players, will get a much better quality product that way.

Vhaeyne

As someone who likes EVE Online, I can't get behind this system. The passive training system in EVE has always been one of my least favorite parts of the game. I am the type of person who will "no life" a game for as long as it takes to get to what I want to do, but in EVE that is not possible. It is like the game is telling me to no play it... in order to play it.

The passive level system killed Darkfall: New Dawn. The game was 1000x better in alpha/beta when the system was not implemented. As soon as the game went live the server population dropped when the reality that we have to wait offline to progress in game set in. Three weeks after launch it was the most dead MMO I have ever seen in my life.

It would have killed Dual Universe for me, but when the game went into persistent alpha I set my mining skills to train, and waited a few months to play it. Which is stupid, but it made the game feel better. Now I am near max skills in everything I want to do, but I did not earn the skills. The only thing I have earned in that game is my ship designs and capital. Everything else just magically showed up over time. It is not satisfying, it's annoying.

I know you are not asking for any meaningful progression to be tied to systems like this, but I just don't want to deal with waiting for something I could work for.
As much as I love Dual Universe and EVE, I hate these passive skill trees. I don't care if it is only emotes that are locked behind the system. I just don't like to deal with them.

I listed three games that use the system that I love. Yet, the passive skill system is the thing that I think holds all of these games back from being more than they are. I have friends who wont play any of these games because of the passive skill systems. I want my friends to want to play Ashes. For some of them any passive progression is a deal breaker. I don't blame them for that. I have to struggle to get past it myself.

Dygz

Ha. For some reason this reminds me of when the first family PC arrived at my parents' house.
I take the PC out of the box and set it up in the family room. My mom tells me I have to put the PC back in the box and wait until the desk she ordered for it arrives.

So...I pick a skill, but I have to wait to use it?
And, I don't have to practice the skill... I just have to wait a bunch of time not using the skill and then I'm proficient at it?
We aren't really training in dance. We're just picking a step and then waiting until enough time passes for the magic spell to activate?
As a dancer in real life, that sounds really odd.
If anything, it should be like EQ, where you choose the skill and then the proficiency increases when you use it.

From a curse perspective it kinda makes sense. I go to the Witch and pay for a curse. They tell me to wait a few days for the curse to activate...and I have faith in their powers (in a low magic/no magic setting).
I wonder what my timeframe threshold would be. I guess I'd be willing to wait a week or so to see some effects.
A Mage casts a spell on a Squire to increase his Sword skill. How long does the Squire wait before seeing any effects? One week? Two weeks? I guess if it's guaranteed to work in two weeks, you just wait the two weeks.

Entitled of us to want instant gratification from no effort rather than delayed gratification for no effort?
Everyone gets a Dub Step!!

Tragnar

There should definitely not be any infinite progression system in an MMO - Ashes included, the beauty of this genre is that you can play the game by your pace and you don't need to stress to miss a progression on neverending system.

I could get behind a longterm progression that takes like a 1000 hours to complete for minimal reward - because it would be just a goal for completionists

stonedape

It seems the community has decided you've made a Nerror in design idea with this one.

Child Item