Not really feeling the whole front flip Dwarfs...

I understand Intrepid is taking its own direction on races and lore for Ashes...Perhaps not trying to fall into fantasy tropes or intellectual property thresholds.

But logically speaking I don't feel a mountain carving and tunneling race (Dünir) would jump flip... "Stoic and stout" seems more rotund, staunch and stocky... a 'regular' jump with perhaps a dodge roll seems a better fit.

(Verbal NDA lifted personal experience alpha tester, So actual hands on impression of the race as it currently being offered)

The islander dwarfs/halflings (Niküa) might seem fine with such athleticism.

I hope Intreprid might already have such details in the pipeline but just not implemented yet.

If not I hope they might reconsider the Jump Flip for mountain dorfs...

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Comments

Blackhearted

Theyre bulky because they mine but u still require dexterity at mountains.

Uncommon Sense

Have you ever flipped in a mine shaft wielding a heavy pick axe? Bulky to me does not suggest acrobatics.

Dexterity swinging a hammer and hauling rocks. Don't recall Cornish coal miners front flipping to work down the pit

Roussynator

and yet dwarves like any other species can do front flip, their little body concentrate high amount of muscular strength that is why they can lift heavy warhammer , pickaxe, steel shield and really heavy tanky armor, in the fantasy world like LOTR, I wouldn't be surprised a dwarf would front flip pickaxe my skull while drinking mead.

Uncommon Sense

That clip basically proves my acceptance with the Nikua islander dwarfs having the flip...semi naked jumping into water...

Not a race that lives under a mountain with minimal headroom carrying 2x it's body weight on a regular basis.

top heavy physics aside.

From an environmental point of view and the foot note information provided by intrepid on their races The Dunir to me do not sound like circus acrobats.

I read Tolkien...can't recall any Dwarven flipping.

George_Black

Same here

Shergrim

ya a traditional dwarf doing flips doesn't make sense in the slightest.

Dygz

Ashes Dwarves are from Verra and Sanctus; not Middle-Earth.
What a race that lives under those mountains might do is up to Steven's lore; not Tolkien's lore.
We have no clue how much head room the Dünir have beneath their mountains. I am pretty sure that there will be plenty of room for Dünir to complete their flips in the Underground and in whatever undermountain dwellings we encounter on Verra.

You don't know what you don't know.

Dreoh

What do you mean? They just cast illusion magic to make it seem like they did a flip

Edit: /s

Dygz

That, too.

Shergrim

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes Dwarves are from Verra and Sanctus; not Middle-Earth.
What a race that lives under those mountains might do is up to Steven's lore; not Tolkien's lore.
We have no clue how much head room the Dünir have beneath their mountains. I am pretty sure that there will be plenty of room for Dünir to complete their flips in the Underground and in whatever undermountain dwellings we encounter on Verra.

You don't know what you don't know.

shitty take as usual

you seem to only care for the devs vision and not what the actual players want..it's a recipe for disaster...is this why you no longer work for activision!?

Biccus

Dygz wrote: »

Ashes Dwarves are from Verra and Sanctus; not Middle-Earth.
What a race that lives under those mountains might do is up to Steven's lore; not Tolkien's lore.

If Steven wanted to create his very own race with its own lore that doesn’t come with expectations, he shouldn’t have called them bloody dwarves. It’s that simple

Dygz

You are wrong. It's really that simple.
If you don't like it, you can play a game you like.
Players who don't like the game creators create don't have to play the game.
Play games that you like.
If you want to play Middle-Earth Dwarves, play a game in the Middle-Earth setting.

Shergrim

Dygz wrote: »

You are wrong. It's really that simple.
If you don't like it, you can play a game you like.
Players who don't like the game creators create don't have to play the game.
Play games that you like.
If you want to play Middle-Earth Dwarves, play a game in the Middle-Earth setting.

sorry but you're the one in the wrong here, we like the game they're making but we don't like a sizeable part of it(that being the dwarves design overall) any good dev will see this and change things accordingly and they absolutely will given how much time left in the development stage there is and how many complaints they are getting about it. Also wanna mention that steven plays warhammer fantasy, that to me says that inspiration coming from warhammer is not off the table like you keep assuming it is.

Biccus

Saying that fantasy races comes with certain expectations is not wrong at all actually. But maybe I am wrong, maybe fantasy elves aren’t tall, lithe, long haired and wield bows... wait..

Dygz

If you don't like a sizeable part of a game you can always play a different game.

Ashes is not based on Middle-Earth lore. It does not take place on Middle-Earth.
So if what you don't like about the game is that it doesn't fit Middle-Earth lore, you should go play a game that takes place on Middle-Earth - rather than play a game that has nothing to do with Middle-Earth.

It's fine to complain about not liking the flip. It's even fine to ask the devs to remove it... that is probably a fairly quick task if they want to replace the flip with something else.
But stating that the reason is because there's no room in the Underground for the flip because there's no room for that in Tolkien's Middle-Earth is absurd.

Stoic - a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.
A flip does nothing to negate a person being able to endure hardship without showing their feelings or complaining. Citing the reason for not feeling the flip as being because it doesn't match the concept of stoic is apples and oranges. One has nothing to do with the other.
Also, of course, it's much easier for the devs to change that one word than it is to change the flip.

Steven plays Warhammer fantasy. But, Ashes comes from his Pathfinder game.
If the concept art for Ashes Dwarves does not reflect Warhammer Dwarves and has not for the past 5+ years, don't expect a change in the base model to reflect the appearance of Warhammer Dwarves.
If Warhammer were the inspiration for Ashes Dwarves, we would have seen that reflected in the Ashes concept art by 2018.
Steven enjoying playing Warhammer does not negate anything I've said. If he wanted the base model for Ashes Dwarves to look like Warhammer Dwarves, they would look like Warhammer Dwarves.
If Steven thought that the Ashes concept art did not fit with his vision of Dwarves because he thinks Warhammer Dwarves are perfection, the concept art would look like Warhammer Dwarves. And would have by 2018.

Shergrim

someone give this guy some vitamins

Recluse74

I can go either way on this one. If Steven or whoever designed the dwarf to flip has the lore to back up this movement, then so be it. If it was added just to try and add spice, maybe it is not a good idea.

Vhaeyne

I am disappointed with the current state of dwarfs too. I voiced this in the other thread, and I feel the need to say it again here.

If they did not want this race to be like the dwarfs people have come to love and expect from other more popular high fantasy media. They should have avoided the word dwarf all together. I would have been happy with just Dünzenkell, Dünir, or Niküa. I have zero expectations of any of those races based on their names. When you specifically call them dwarfs as well. For me that adds some expectations I have dwarfs from other popular high fantasy franchises.

If Ashes was not specifically calling itself "High Fantasy", and was instead calling itself "Fairy Tale Fantasy". The seven dwarfs style dwarfs would also make sense. I am not saying that Intrepid should not have full creative control or freedom in their project. I am saying that it makes sense that people would be disappointed when they hear a game is going to have dwarfs, then they see the dwarfs in the game.

Players Kid: Can we have dwarves?
Intrepid Mom: We have dwarves at home. in Verra.

This is the one image of a dwarf I found on the kickstarter:

Seems pretty good to me. I am very skeptical that guy do a front flip though.

Again, none of this is a deal breaker for me, but I would be lying if I said that the current dwarfs were not a disappointment.

daveywavey

Dwarves were around before Tolkien, and originally weren't even described as the short, stocky beings we "know" them as today. So, if someone can change them to fit their own lore, why can't Intrepid change them to fit into Ashes lore?

Shergrim

daveywavey wrote: »

Dwarves were around before Tolkien, and originally weren't even described as the short, stocky beings we "know" them as today. So, if someone can change them to fit their own lore, why can't Intrepid change them to fit into Ashes lore?

"Stoic. Tradition. Forge. Most of the peoples from the old world would see a mountain and think nothing of it. The Dünir saw a defensible home where riches abound. The Dünir take immense pride in what they craft and what they build: fortifications that seem impregnable, warhammers that never break, or beautiful gems for their royalty are all in their repertoire. Don't be deceived by their stout stature. They're pound for pound the strongest warriors the world has ever known."

if intrepid are trying to make them fit their own lore they should at least not make them sound exactly like traditional tolkien or warhammer dwarves no? with a description like that i expect something more from the models than what we currently have ingame! "pound for pound the best warriors the world has ever known?!" that is a joke. when i read that line i think of a gotrek gurnisson not any of snow whites 7 bloody dwarves!

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