Not really feeling the whole front flip Dwarfs...

I understand Intrepid is taking its own direction on races and lore for Ashes...Perhaps not trying to fall into fantasy tropes or intellectual property thresholds.

But logically speaking I don't feel a mountain carving and tunneling race (Dünir) would jump flip... "Stoic and stout" seems more rotund, staunch and stocky... a 'regular' jump with perhaps a dodge roll seems a better fit.

(Verbal NDA lifted personal experience alpha tester, So actual hands on impression of the race as it currently being offered)

The islander dwarfs/halflings (Niküa) might seem fine with such athleticism.

I hope Intreprid might already have such details in the pipeline but just not implemented yet.

If not I hope they might reconsider the Jump Flip for mountain dorfs...

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Dethraxxi

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Perhaps not trying to fall into fantasy tropes or intellectual property thresholds.

Not really. So far they followed the WoW path pretty well including the addition of dinosaurs which don't fit the world they are trying to build.

It's more a case of a "hey let's do this and this cuz reasons" situation.

Dygz

Uncommon Sense wrote: »

Well all of Steven Dünir are stout and stoic shaped by the mountains and stone...Intrepids words not mine.

Post a dev quote that states all Dünir are stout and stoic.
Again, stout does not preclude doing flips. Stoic has no bearing on doing flips.
We don't even know yet if Dünir are intended to do flips at launch - for all we know it's just a test for Niküa.
We can be sure that there will be room for player characters to do flips in the Underground.
If it turns out that all Dünir do flips when they jump it will likely be because all Dünir find that to be fun and/or that they all believe it aids their jumping, regardless of whether it truly aids their jumping.

Tons of players jump their characters while they're running simply because they like to make them jump while running. Doesn't have to have a practical reason.

Marcet

The thing about having a short and dense body is actually good to do backflips. Having said this, I prefer if they make craters on the ground after jumping than doing backflips and seeming so light. The cool thing about dwarves is how strong, badass, weighty and the metaphoric rocks they are. Elves remind me more of feathers, light and floaty, but not dwarves.

Dygz

Yeah, a few of the dudes doing flips in that video above land fairly well, but a lot of them land hard.

Khronus

I definitely do not like the added animations to the jumping. I believe it was elf that jumped up and threw their shoulder into the air. It's just way over the top and better time could be spent on skill animations.

Nagash

Reminds me of dawn of war 3 flips

RocketFarmer

Pathfinder = D&D 3.5 plus extras to sell books. Pathfinder 2.0 generally sucked, in my opinion, but I digress.

Steven’s home brew dwarves are a derivative/departure from Pathfinder dwarves.

D&D dwarves were a direct lift from Tolkien. Gary indicated so, if we need creator references. Tim Trask is still around should you need more direct evidence (he was Gary’s editor). Tim might find flipping dwarves hysterical.

So Steven’s dwarves are essentially a one off from Tolkien, which is why many players are expressing their opinions.

Perhaps these are the rare flipping dwarves who defy expectations, mostly player expectations.

I say the above assuming the Verra dwarves are really based on his Pathfinder dwarves since I have no first hand knowledge of that actually being the case. Point was to show how Pathfinder dwarves and Tolkien dwarves are essentially the same. But with added splat books and broken feats.

Uncommon Sense

Just reading the Dunir lore flavor text implies a race of stalwart miners and blacksmiths, Stone and metal.

Trying to justify the flipping by flipping the terminology to square peg round hole the scenario to me seems nonsensical.

The Dunir are stereotype Tolkienesk dwarves and resemble all other fantasy derivatives They are a literal stone foundation to what many interpret and expect dwarfs to be.

Deviating seems unwise.

As far as I am concerned the acrobatics do not befit the dunir and is actually disrespectful to their core values.

That's just my interpretation, but I doubt I am alone in this sentiment.

I Hope Intrepid realizes this...
It could just be alpha mechanics testing...

Just tester feedback.

Marcet

That is true, dwarves CAN do flips.

But they shouldn't be the ones showcasing it all the time, like they are the most agile race of them all.

Everybody can flip, we agree on that. But why have dwarves as the main flippers? If you don't want to make elves flip, then make no one flip.

EDIT: Maybe everybody flips and im a bit lost because I didn't played the alpha.

Songcaller

flipping hell...literally.

Smol

Dygz wrote: »

Stout does not preclude being nimble and acrobatic.
Stoic has no bearing on being nimble and acrobatic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2u5KRfLosc

Some of those guys are not fat, that is muscle built that aids sustaining the back for lifting heavy weight. There seems to be a misconception that being health means not having a belly, a healthy person has that kind of belly if they lift heavy objects on a daily basics and it isn't for far.

Dygz

Marcet wrote: »

Everybody can flip, we agree on that. But why have dwarves as the main flippers? If you don't want to make elves flip, then make no one flip.

EDIT: Maybe everybody flips and im a bit lost because I didn't played the alpha.

I have only been playing a Dwarf, so I don't know if every race flips while jumping, but...
When I'm playing, it generally makes me feel like I'm traveling more distance - it's adding extra power that gives me greater distance than I would get if I just did a regular jump.
As in - if I did a normal jump - I would only cover about half the distance because of my short stature. But, the somersault indicates a more powerful jump that allows me to cover the same distance a Human would wih a regular Human jump.

Vhaeyne

Dygz wrote: »

I have only been playing a Dwarf, so I don't know if every race flips while jumping, but...
When I'm playing, it generally makes me feel like I'm traveling more distance - it's adding extra power that gives me greater distance than I would get if I just did a regular jump.
As in - if I did a normal jump - I would only cover about half the distance because of my short stature. But, the somersault indicates a more powerful jump that allows me to cover the same distance a Human would wih a regular Human jump.

Sounds like the illusion of speed that small races have with they have the same walk speed and jump height as other taller races in the same game. I have played many halflings, gnomes, and tarutaru in my day and the speed difference is always noticeable when you switch from a larger alt.

Elves jump seemed normal. I did not try the lowly human yet.

ThexBlackxKnight

Do we really need any race to flip around while jumping? I am trying to get away from World of Warcraft.

Ragecon

Believe it was Everquest 🤔 can’t remember but there was an Easter egg that would make it to where your dwarf could do a front flip.

Dygz

Well, that might explain why these Dwarves have a flip - since most of the devs are from EQ/EQ2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFXUYl2ljqI

Marcet

Dygz wrote: »

Well, that might explain why these Dwarves have a flip - since most of the devs are from EQ/EQ2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFXUYl2ljqI

Okay. I change my opinion. I want dwarves to do flips.

Vhaeyne

Marcet wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Well, that might explain why these Dwarves have a flip - since most of the devs are from EQ/EQ2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFXUYl2ljqI

Okay. I change my opinion. I want dwarves to do flips.

My minds eye can't tell if that is EQ1 or EQ2. I think I remember both games looking the same, it has been so long.

Uncommon Sense

So a 20 year Easter egg ability is now default is it...

Looks more like a dodge roll tumble to me like a heavy stone getting pushed over.

Not a jump tuck flip.

Same devs as EQ Next/Landmark no?

The out fringes of obscure gaming history still don't mesh the Concept art and lore of Intrepid's Dunir and what the Alpha test currently provides, it just does not add up.

System metric testing disclosure aside. That was the primary aim of the test.

Dygz

Vhaeyne wrote: »

My minds eye can't tell if that is EQ1 or EQ2. I think I remember both games looking the same, it has been so long.

It's EQ1.
The way I had remembered the visuals of EQ1 was very different than when I watched some newbies play it back in 2014.
EQ1 is much more low poly than EQ2. But, both compared to today...well, yeah, might as well be the same.

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