Can we get legendary items through exploration?

I've been thinking about it, and I'm suggesting a reward mechanic for exploration. Some games give you exp and fancy achievements, even a title for exploring, but I feel this isn't enough to do this. I know you are planning to drop legendary named items in game, one per server, by defeating a dragon or a legendary boss.

That's nice, but I could suggest through exploration you could find a legendary sword stuck on a stone. Or walking by a lake you hear the sweet voice and as you approach you see a sword. An abandoned forge still burning hot and inside there is a warhammer. A haunted library and you could find a book illuminated by a beam of light coming down from a hole on the ceiling even though there is a storm outside.

I think these would be great moments to have, that could encourage rewards like this. Maybe they are not legendary, maybe they are rare, epic items. Not everything should be acquired through killing, I think having some epic moments is also important for a game.

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Schmuky

I notice the Arthurian legend is strong here:))

That being said....i don't agree, like at all. The point of exploration is not to find loot. The point of exploration is to ,well, explore. Its like hiking. You don't do it for to finish the hike or to find nice rocks on the way, you do it for the hike.

Especially no to legendary items. They are items of legend. Not in a piece of stone (I really don't like that part of Arthurian legend, why didn't the people just destroy the stone around it?). Anyway, I say this as someone that really likes to explore and there is no need to add rewards of any kind above a well crafted world.

George_Black

How many per server?

Vhaeyne

No!

Something given has no value!

Killing is violent.

All things should be acquired through violence.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.

Schmuky

Vhaeyne wrote: »

No!

Something given has no value!

Killing is violent.

All things should be acquired through violence.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.

Geez Hakuna your Tatas, Carnage, your movie only comes out in September

))

Smol

Schmuky wrote: »

I notice the Arthurian legend is strong here:))

That being said....i don't agree, like at all. The point of exploration is not to find loot. The point of exploration is to ,well, explore. Its like hiking. You don't do it for to finish the hike or to find nice rocks on the way, you do it for the hike.

Especially no to legendary items. They are items of legend. Not in a piece of stone (I really don't like that part of Arthurian legend, why didn't the people just destroy the stone around it?). Anyway, I say this as someone that really likes to explore and there is no need to add rewards of any kind above a well crafted world.

I'll leave everything aside for later, but for now, let's talk about the sword in the stone.

The sword in the stone isn't what you think it is. The sword would belong to the true king of Logres (Britain). It's a sword Arthur obtained, broke during combat. Merlin directed the king to a lake, where they met the Lady of the Lake.

She was the one to give him the Sword, but it had a price. She told him he would give him the sword in return of a boon or a gift. Later in the story, the Lady of the Lake arrived to Camelot and came looking for heads, literally, she wanted the head of a knight, they refused and the same knight cut her head off.

The story has been sugar coated and there are a few different versions as well. This is why they didn't destroy the stone, for many nobles were competing against each other and the sword in the stone was heavily guarded.

Hayhaka Sapa

I never like rewards that are not realistic at all. Getting cool swords supposedly swallowed gets silly. Perhaps get some berries or fish or whatever the critter eats. Mainly though is raw meat you could sell, use, throw away as you see fit. After all, the biggest reward is the experience points and the fun. Perhaps give some bonus skill points on super hard quests such as bosses (one time per boss per character etc.). Let all armour, jewelry, potions, etc. be required to be manufactured. If you are the first person to max level and are not an armourer, then you need to wait for someone to get good enough and get the necessary materials to make the fancy armour. Getting the magic essence or something like that to sell is fine. Let quest rewards be experience points, perhaps recipes, money, etc. as well as knowledge such as recipes.

Shoelid

I agree that there should be rewards for exploration, but they shouldn't be one-time rewards. Leave it up to the explorer to spread the word or keep it secret.

neuroguy

This wouldn't reward exploration. This sounds like a static event that you can learn the location of and inform other people. Or it just devolves to spawn camping to get your loot or simply rewards the people who play at launch for no reason. Or it sounds like a reward for achievement completion of going to all points of interest on the map which is also not exploration and just becomes a checklist to complete. If it is not static or tied to an achievement and is dynamic then it is just RNG and has nothing to do with exploration since you could run into it on a path you've crossed a thousand times.

For exploration to be rewarding you need interesting and rewarding experiences that organically occur in the world. The PvX nature of the game will provide that for example, the pathing of caravans, the random spawn of gatherable resources. Furthermore the leveling of nodes will change the landscape and provide things for people to discover in places on the map they've already been to. In terms of exploration, this game is set up to be one of the most rewarding ever for an MMORPG, we don't need legendary or epic items as reward for walking around.

ThexBlackxKnight

Pretty sure they said there will be hidden stuff in the world to find.

Shoelid

neuroguy wrote: »

This wouldn't reward exploration. This sounds like a static event that you can learn the location of and inform other people. Or it just devolves to spawn camping to get your loot or simply rewards the people who play at launch for no reason. Or it sounds like a reward for achievement completion of going to all points of interest on the map which is also not exploration and just becomes a checklist to complete. If it is not static or tied to an achievement and is dynamic then it is just RNG and has nothing to do with exploration since you could run into it on a path you've crossed a thousand times.

For exploration to be rewarding you need interesting and rewarding experiences that organically occur in the world. The PvX nature of the game will provide that for example, the pathing of caravans, the random spawn of gatherable resources. Furthermore the leveling of nodes will change the landscape and provide things for people to discover in places on the map they've already been to. In terms of exploration, this game is set up to be one of the most rewarding ever for an MMORPG, we don't need legendary or epic items as reward for walking around.

I agree that the game design for AOC would already allow it to be top tier for map exploration, but you're really underselling the potential of hidden quests or events. Like @Schmuky said, the point of exploration isn't loot. However loot attracts other people to your discovery. Other people being aware of "A discovery being made" leads to the idea that "this game has discoveries to be made", which leads to the feeling that "this game is worth exploring".

How do I know this? Speedrunning. There's an entire genre of videos on Youtube covering the history of speedrunning specific games. A common trend is: World Record progression stagnates > community stagnates, game starts to die > speedrunner finds new glitch/skip > new World Records made > people realize "this game probably has more skips" and begin looking for skips > new skips are found > new world records > ...

You get the trend.

In an MMO, once something is discovered, will it become a static event that everybody knows about? Almost certainly. However, only one person will ever be the first to discover it. They get the excitement and prestige with being that guy who found the thing. Other players may want a taste of that prestige, or they may want to find new and better gear, or farming spots, or anything else. They'll go looking, and if another discovery is made, the cycle repeats and strengthens. Eventually, players have a sentiment that this game is worth exploring, and that'll only do good things for the game.

A point worth mentioning: in MMOs (and especially AOC), there are multiple types of exploring. People will explore different class combinations and builds. They'll explore different crafting combinations for their gear. They'll explore the map, and each node as it levels up. They'll explore for the best ways to deal damage, tank, and heal. They'll explore for the best ways to kill an enemy player before they get the chance to respond.

When people explore different class combinations and discover the new best way to deal damage, will that become the new meta build that everybody knows about? 100% it will, but that's not to say that we should do away with the process of exploring for new builds entirely. It should be the same for an MMO's world. Once something is discovered, it will become part of public knowledge, but having people explore for it initially is incredibly beneficial to the game.

Ragecon

I would love to see some worlds first weapons or armors by solving some kinda world puzzle and make it nothing super op. But something cool looking, so the one person who finds or solves said thing has that super clout. Only one in existence rewards!

Dygz

Hmmn. I mean...if people can get a Legendary item just from exploring, every hardcore player would have that item - possibly on multiple characters.
Better to reward a cosmetic - if it doesn't provide Legendary function, far fewer players will be interested in grabbing it. "I explored the ENTIRE world and all I got was this lousy tunic!!"

"Rare" might be nice. I mean there are times when I'm swimming around continents to unveil the fog of war and I see a temple on some obscure temple. I go up to the temple, which is cool, but there's nothing to do there. It would be nice to get something.
Doesn't have to be an epic something. Could just be a "trophy" I could display somewhere in my Freehold.

Smol

Probably I word it poorly. What I was trying to convey was what @Shoelid said. It's a unique item that only one person can find. If other come to the place it was discovered there wouldn't be there anymore, just to get that prestige as he said, and to encourage others to explore, so they could grab into that prestige and fame.

And @Ragecon makes a great point, probably a quest or a puzzle when solved it unlocks secret rooms with rewards.

@Dygz also makes a good point, it could be unique, rare item as well, even a cosmetic to be the first person to discover it. I do enjoy exploration, but if it's only to get a lousy reward like a title that anyone can get, or a lousy tunic it will feel terrible, but maybe obtaining a named and unique (only exists in one server) even without being legendary, rare or unique would be a great addition.

I do feel there is potential to get something out of exploration than your classic congratulation for discovering the whole land. Or XP. Even relics/trophies would be great since we could use our freeholds to show them off, hell, now I want them to add a trophy/relic freehold slot to show off what I've done.

neuroguy

@Shoelid I'm not sure why you thought I'd be against hidden quests and events when all I expressed opposition to was being handed an epic or legendary item for randomly running into a 'lit furnace' before anyone else. Putting aside exploring builds (?), when exploring the world, as I already said, there are already many incentives. There is already a treasure hunting component to the game where you solve problems and follow clues. There are already hidden quests and random events. Either what is being proposed is already in the game or it really is being proposed that you randomly run into something that gives you a super rare item which again, only rewards you for being first. I don't understand why you think an item is appropriate reward for walking around the world (there are tons of reasons to do this already). The world map isn't THAT big in the game, everywhere will be well travelled in several months, and if it's tied to node levels, it will just be rushed as soon as the node levels. Either way, it rewards being first (having fast mounts and good use of travel skills to comb an area) not exploring. This is not to be confused with the game becoming 'stale' quickly. MMORPGs have so much to do, you don't need to 'reinvigorate' the game like speed-running does for platformers or other genres. Being first is NOT exploration when the world is easy to travel (you just grab a mount or a boat), there is not preparation or survival elements in the game, just moving somewhere is not effortful and should not be rewarded with epic or legendary items.

ragonrok

Vhaeyne wrote: »

No!

Something given has no value!

Killing is violent.

All things should be acquired through violence.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.

i like your style

Shoelid

@neuroguy I guess I'm really being misunderstood here. You keep harping on this idea of "just walking around the map and finding shit" which isn't what I'm talking about. That sounds bad, I don't like that either. I never said I liked it.

The entire post that I made was concerning hidden quests and events. My entire point was that hiding things that everybody can access will make the game better. The point was that making the game feel like it isn't solved is good.

My point about the speedrunning community and exploring was not a point about reinvigorating the game. I was trying to say that a solved game is boring.

When people feel like the best tank will always be tank/tank, and the best healer will always be cleric/cleric, and the best dps will always be mage/mage, they will feel like there is never a reason to test anything else. people will feel like the puzzle is solved, and the game will get a lot more boring. This is what I meant by "exploring class combinations and builds".

If people feel like there's never a reason to visit Node X, that part of the map will feel a lot more boring. With a sufficient amount of hidden quests and events it is harder for people to feel like Node X is empty, because maybe they just never found the secret.

I'm pretty sure we agree on this, but I'm going out of my way to be extra straightforward because it seems like most of my last post was misunderstood.

neuroguy

@Shoelid got it, yeah I agree. I'm just not sure that's what the OP is suggesting/talking about.

Noaani

As a means of player prestige, I'm all for things like this.

As long as it isn't actual gear, as gear in an MMO should be looked at as the key to new content. You take on content and get the gear from it, which then enables you to take on the next piece of content to get the gear from, which then opens up the next piece of content, etc.

Gear that is obtained outside of this is essentially sidestepping content, at least in part.

Noaani

Shoelid wrote: »

In an MMO, once something is discovered, will it become a static event that everybody knows about? Almost certainly. However, only one person will ever be the first to discover it. They get the excitement and prestige with being that guy who found the thing. Other players may want a taste of that prestige, or they may want to find new and better gear, or farming spots, or anything else. They'll go looking, and if another discovery is made, the cycle repeats and strengthens. Eventually, players have a sentiment that this game is worth exploring, and that'll only do good things for the game.

The downside to this is that assuming the game has a few million players at launch, all the discoveries will be made in the first few weeks of them being available.

The thing with the speed running community is that it is both small and fairly insular. To them, a game is dead when there are no speed runners playing it, and it is alive and active when there are a few dozen speed runners playing it.

Also, speed runners are looking for bugs and glitches in games more than designed features. These bugs and glitches are not designed as things that the developers want people to find, whereas any content at all that developers spend time (and thus money) on, they want people to find - even if not right away.

These two things combined (a much larger MMO population than the speed runner population, and this content being designed to be found) means that actual exploration in terms of finding new things in an MMO could only ever last a few weeks - and that few weeks will take place in beta.

Blackford

Imagine the worst MMO player you've ever encountered.... the one who can't ever do a single mechanic.
Now you and he are walking down a road and he's all "hey what's that?"

And he runs off into the bushes and comes back with the Ashbringer.

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