Benefits for corrupt players

The current Corruption and Flagging system kills the vibe. Of course, no one wants to be PKed right after leaving a Node, but at the moment, there is literally no reason to PK. There is no Risk vs. Reward, it's just death.

Corrupt players can only remove corruption by dying or by slowly leveling for x amount of time. Plenty of bounty hunters might try to kill you and the consequences for dying are massive. Not only that, but combat becomes more and more difficult the more corrupt you are. Just a 10% decrease in stats would cripple me in PVP, so why would I ever become corrupt?

The only benefit is that non-combat players suffer twice the death penalty as combat players, so if you kill one of these players, you might get slightly more resources. This is not at all worth it. It would be cool if Corrupted players could receive some tangible benefits, rather than just having a ban on PKing in disguise.

My idea is, if the NPC reputation system is expanded to have evil NPCs be more favorable to Corrupted players, they might be able to exchange rare resources and items. The more PKs under your belt, the better the items. If you already have killed five players, let's assume you suffer a 5% decrease in stats and are a very tempting target for bounty hunters. If your goal is to get 10 PKs so you can trade for some really good items or resources, then the risks and benefits would balance each other.

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akabear

Just quoting the wiki, happy to be mistaken

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Leveling
"Level cap
The level cap at launch is expected to be approximately level 50.[6]
The developers anticipate max level should be attainable in approximately 45 days if you play roughly 4-6 hours per day.[7][8]"
270hrs or there abouts from zero to hero.

For L2 players back in the day, 200-300 hrs was level one level past level 70. So any ex-L2 players might not find this so demanding.

George_Black

I wish AoC went more hardcore with the time needed to reach max lv

Asgerr

George Black wrote: »

I wish AoC went more hardcore with the time needed to reach max lv

The current Time to Max Level (TML from now on), is set to be at around 45 days, playing 4 to 6 hours per day.

That is about 270 hours of TML. Compared to most MMOs out there where the TML is of about 2-4 days of playing 6 hours a day, I'd say Ashes is pretty hardcore.

What kind of TML would you then prefer? A full year?

akabear

Personal preference would be to have only a small percentage of the population at max level. Setting a difficult and long goal that only will be reached by a few. Then those few have earned their status in blood, sweat and tears!

0-40 3 to 6 months to get to 80%..
40-45 3 to 6 months to get next 10%
45-48 3 to 6 months to get next 6%
48-50 3 to 6 months to get 4% and max.... 1% of population after 1 year.

But that mindset may mean less perhaps in this setting, yet to see.

insomnia

OP, you clearly have missed the point of the game and the corrupt system. This isn't a game where you are ment to go around and just kill people constantly

Sathrago

insomnia wrote: »

OP, you clearly have missed the point of the game and the corrupt system. This isn't a game where you are ment to go around and just kill people constantly

I mean... you're kinda wrong. They have a ton of content for going around killing people constantly, you just have to do one of the pvp events or attack purples to avoid corruption.

Conrad

Hopefully, the levelling experience will be compelling to level for 45 days. Otherwise, Houston, we got a problem.

Noaani

akabear wrote: »

Personal preference would be to have only a small percentage of the population at max level. Setting a difficult and long goal that only will be reached by a few. Then those few have earned their status in blood, sweat and tears!

0-40 3 to 6 months to get to 80%..
40-45 3 to 6 months to get next 10%
45-48 3 to 6 months to get next 6%
48-50 3 to 6 months to get 4% and max.... 1% of population after 1 year.

But that mindset may mean less perhaps in this setting, yet to see.

The issue with this is that any game with actual content wants its players to be roughly the same level.

If Intrepid go to add new content 6 months after release, there is no obvious level range for them to make that new content.

If the game takes 45 days or so to get to max level, new content after 6 months can be either aimed at the 45 - 50 range to get stragglers leveled to the cap faster (used if large numbers of players are leveling slower than anticipated) or at the level cap.

Slow leveling works in games like L2, where content is basically irrelevant, and like Path of Exile, where content is procedurally generated. It doesnt work so well in games that place real importance on hand crafted content.

ThexBlackxKnight

Conrad wrote: »

Hopefully, the levelling experience will be compelling to level for 45 days. Otherwise, Houston, we got a problem.

Ashes is not a typical thempark mmo , where you level to max , do all the content and just wait around for more content. The ever changing sandbox nature of the game is going to keep players in invested with what is happening in the game world , the raise and fall of the nodes and how they unlock content is going to keep the game fresh. The living world has been missing in a lot of modern mmorpgs.

Patsold

False Prophet wrote: »

The current Corruption and Flagging system kills the vibe. Of course, no one wants to be PKed right after leaving a Node, but at the moment, there is literally no reason to PK. There is no Risk vs. Reward, it's just death.

Corrupt players can only remove corruption by dying or by slowly leveling for x amount of time. Plenty of bounty hunters might try to kill you and the consequences for dying are massive. Not only that, but combat becomes more and more difficult the more corrupt you are. Just a 10% decrease in stats would cripple me in PVP, so why would I ever become corrupt?

The only benefit is that non-combat players suffer twice the death penalty as combat players, so if you kill one of these players, you might get slightly more resources. This is not at all worth it. It would be cool if Corrupted players could receive some tangible benefits, rather than just having a ban on PKing in disguise.

My idea is, if the NPC reputation system is expanded to have evil NPCs be more favorable to Corrupted players, they might be able to exchange rare resources and items. The more PKs under your belt, the better the items. If you already have killed five players, let's assume you suffer a 5% decrease in stats and are a very tempting target for bounty hunters. If your goal is to get 10 PKs so you can trade for some really good items or resources, then the risks and benefits would balance each other.

I like the Idea , But " some realy good items or resources" are to mutch. It need to be risky and not a reasone to kill someone whitout loot.

if the reward is like a pvp set " open world " skin , or some Ship skins ect. why not ? its skins , it dont push your power lvl . so a kill give you a PvP token that you can trade into skins. and you can show every player that cross your way , what a bad A** fu*** you are.

EDIT : I forgot .. The problem that a Player maby dont have Rescources. YES . but its your risk. if you want a looted player , stalk him ... look how mutch Iron or items he get... THEN kill him. remeber the names , put it into a list , kill the farmer boys again, the chance that a farmer boy farms again is high.

its a hard job , and maby its better to farm for yourself, we need to see it in the finished game. but you can choose.

tautau

I wonder if we haven't become so accustomed to games which have imitated each other for 20 years that we might have difficulty recognizing, much less playing, a game with a fundamentally different design? We are used to games where we:

- Level up with support of our guild
- Fight increasingly difficult bosses to get better gear
- Fight other guilds to be top dog
- Finish game, get bored, look for another game and do it again

So Levels and Gear and Guilds and Raids are what we naturally look at in a new game, so much that it is difficult to see (much less understand) any fundamental shifts. Sure, we look at AoC and see levels, gear, guilds and raids so it is natural to assume the same relationships we have grown accustomed to in the past will exist here.

But IF things work differently, it will be the players who are able to adapt to the new environment and change their ways of play who will be the most successful. Just like successful competition in the 'real world.'

What do I mean? Let me toss out a couple of 'What If' scenarios which are not more than informed speculation on my part. I do not know that these will be the case in AoC.

What if....it turns out that being attached to a NODE is a better path to success than attachment to a GUILD?

What if...it turns out that your advancement in your PROFESSION (crafting, farming, tavernkeeping...) brings you more success in game than your advancement in LEVEL?

What if...it turns out that the augments you get from your rank in your RELIGION or SOCIAL ORGANIZATION (Bounty Hunter Guild, Scientific Guild) are more fulfilling than the augments on your weapon or secondary class?

Yeah, AoC might turn the multiplayer game world on its head, or at least tilt if differently than in the past. Players who were successful in other games might not be successful here, some will complain that the game sucks and others will adapt and thrive. Players who never reached high renown in other games might suddenly find themselves at home in AoC and fly like an eagle.

George_Black

Mmorpgs move away from leveling and crafting. And open world.... full of instanced content (stage coop..)

Single player games introduce meaningless leveling, tedious crafting and boring copy paste endless open world.

I blame the players

Nagash

just to throw my hat into the ring

NOPE

Sathrago

Nagash wrote: »

just to throw my hat into the ring

NOPE

Yeah, well your hat is big, stupid, and funny looking.

Nagash

Sathrago wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

just to throw my hat into the ring

NOPE

Yeah, well your hat is big, stupid, and funny looking.

Its my skeleton pope hat

insomnia

Sathrago wrote: »

insomnia wrote: »

OP, you clearly have missed the point of the game and the corrupt system. This isn't a game where you are ment to go around and just kill people constantly

I mean... you're kinda wrong. They have a ton of content for going around killing people constantly, you just have to do one of the pvp events or attack purples to avoid corruption.

From what i have understood, not mindless PvP or PvP to troll people.

But this is to what OP's first post
Just because our flagging system gives corruption to pkers, doesn't mean PvP won't happen. There is plenty of reason for PvP to occur open-world. Scarce resources, open world hunting grounds, caravans, sieges, guild wars etc. – Steven Sharif

akabear

L2 castle ownership returned considerable wealth to the owning guild through return on taxes on the associated towns and also opened opportunity to castle owner only raids.

Vying for ownership frequently started in the open world days or even weeks, well before the siege itself was scheduled though shifting of alliances, pvp, pk`ing, payoffs and diplomacy.

I recall a few intensive weeks of our guild being relentlessly pk`ed to back down from siding a certain way at a pending seige. Better to side with thy enemy for future peace than go up against unwinable odds.

But scheme to ninja the relic! but the schemer gets schemed!

That may end up being the objective of in some pvp / pking.

Paranoyd

George Black wrote: »

I am telling you the system is a punishment mechanic to protect the other elements of mmorpg besides PvP:
Character progress
Crafting and market
Exploration

This part, right here.

You have X drops from Y mobs, in Z locations. That loot has a certain intrinsic value to it that the game is balanced around; the rate it drops, the rarity, the difficulty of the mob, the NPC value of it, etc.

If a large group of players turned that location into a gank fest for everyone who isn't them, that loot now becomes rarer for the rest of the server. The player-value of that loot now rises, people start auctioning it off and selling it off for higher and higher prices, making it more and more worthwhile to camp those areas.

The rewards of having this access to rare loot with hugely inflated value, makes it more than worthwhile for people to take the penalty for a murder spree since they can now gain ten times the wealth they would if they played cautiously.

FuryBladeborne

@Paranoyd
What you have just described is fighting over resources for profit, which is an intended feature of Ashes.

Most likely, the players involved in those fights will be in consensual PVP most of the time; so, no corruption involved. The value of limited resources is intended to drive meaningful PVP just as you described.

FuryBladeborne

Fathym wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

It’s all about the alts.
I’m sure there will be many people for whom a Corrupt Zombie is kill on sight.

While your corrupt zombie sounds interesting and quite fun it did make me think of another major flaw in the corruption system. Have intrepid ever explained if there are any drawbacks to, on a max level character, stripping completely naked and then going full murder hobo in a low level zone. Based on the wiki, there doesn’t seem to be any draw back to this. Just slaughter to your hearts content, lose nothing when you die, and then get a friend to kill you a bunch of time to rid yourself of the corruption once you’ve had your fill.

Killing low level players results in more corruption per kill. Dying causes negative experience with most of the same penalties as being corrupt (Such as skill and stat dampening in PVP, reduced drop rates from mobs, etc.). So, removing corruption through death instead of grinding makes it necessary to remove death penalty through grinding. Also, since the penalties apply to max level characters, they can't just ignore negative experience even though they don't have to level anymore.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Corruption

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