Both in game and in the art Elves are nearly indistinguishable from Humans

Maezriel wrote: »

I'm sorry I didn't realize I was talking to Intrepid staff.

The game is still in A1 and there's no point in saying anything is truly cemented until launch. Even then retcons do exists and if the game lasts for any decent amount of time they will likely happen so changing the lore to allow for some form of visual originality is possible.

I don't agree that armor should be how we differentiate the races. Armor should add to a races aesthetic not be the primary focus. I'm not looking to roll a suit of Armor I'm looking to play a character in a fantasy world and they should be able to stand out from different races when fully naked. ESO gets away w/ it b/c the vast majority of their races are arguably ethnicities but, like I said, there's nothing really like that in AoC

Well, there is a point since it's true.
You can believe what I've said or not. Whether we agree will not change facts.

Maezriel wrote: »

I don't agree that armor should be how we differentiate the races. Armor should add to a races aesthetic not be the primary focus. I'm not looking to roll a suit of Armor I'm looking to play a character in a fantasy world and they should be able to stand out from different races when fully naked. ESO gets away w/ it b/c the vast majority of their races are arguably ethnicities but, like I said, there's nothing really like that in AoC

Each race having its version of each armor is some 2002 crap that MMORPGs should be moving away from. Character models and armor models should be advanced to the point that anyone can wear any armor. Many games do this.

To be clear, I am not arguing against racial armors. I am saying that they should exist, but anyone should be able to have a suit of dwarven or eleven armors made to fit their race.

The idea that if I as an elf take off my chain mail and give it to a dwarf. Then that same chain mail looks entirely different aesthetically on a dwarf. That is some 2002 crap that needs to die in MMORPGs.

Well, Ashes is not the MMORPG that's going to die in.

Dygz wrote: »

Well, Ashes is not the MMORPG that's going to die in.

The concept of needs to die not the MMORPG.

I know.
That concept about racial armor is not going to die in Ashes of Creation.
That is the way racial armor will work in Ashes.
In Ashes, if your Elf gives my Dwarf some armor, it will look different when I wear it than it did when you wore it.

Dygz wrote: »

I know.
That concept about racial armor is not going to die in Ashes of Creation.
That is the way racial armor will work in Ashes.
In Ashes, if your Elf gives my Dwarf some armor, it will look different when I wear it than it did when you wore it.

I know how it works in Ashes. I am saying it is a dated concept.

I am giving criticism where it is due. It's not like I expect them to change it.
At best, they could abandon the practice down the road.

It is the most non-next gen thing they could be doing with armor.

Yep. I have no dog in that fight.
I simply said that's going to have to be other games besides Ashes.

Dygz wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

I'm sorry I didn't realize I was talking to Intrepid staff.

The game is still in A1 and there's no point in saying anything is truly cemented until launch. Even then retcons do exists and if the game lasts for any decent amount of time they will likely happen so changing the lore to allow for some form of visual originality is possible.

I don't agree that armor should be how we differentiate the races. Armor should add to a races aesthetic not be the primary focus. I'm not looking to roll a suit of Armor I'm looking to play a character in a fantasy world and they should be able to stand out from different races when fully naked. ESO gets away w/ it b/c the vast majority of their races are arguably ethnicities but, like I said, there's nothing really like that in AoC

Well, there is a point since it's true.
You can believe what I've said or not. Whether we agree will not change facts.

No, but bringing up my concerns as a tester can change those facts and coming in sound as if you speak for the devs isn't helpful.

You're far from the only person who does this so please don't feel I'm singling you out, but every single thread it happens in it's both annoying and counterproductive.

* Tell me why armor being the defining aspect of a race is somehow superior to having the races themselves produce a distinct silhouette.
* Explain why even having different skin tones would break the immersion for you
* Discuss w/ me why having each race be homogenized is a positive for you

Don't come in saying "This is just how it is" b/c this is literally untrue seeing as how this early in development is the perfect time to request a change like this.

If I wanted to know the "facts" I would've read the wiki, not post something on the forums.

No. Bringing up concerns as a tester is not going to change that Corruption has not changed the appearances of the player races.

That doesn't mean that Elven ears won't be long enough to be clearly identified as Elves. The character creator might allow for that - for those players who want characters to be more clearly identified as Elves.
We also don't know for sure what the skin color spectrums will be for Elves and how they might differ from Human skin color spectrums. But, it's highly unlikely to be elemental since all player characters are coming from a world with no magic.
That we are coming from Santcus - a world with no magic - is not going to change at all. Especially not just to make the races look more distinct from each other.

Whether you think what I'm saying is helpful is irrelevant.
I'm sharing what I know. You can believe what I say or not.
Sharing what I know cannot be counterproductive. It doesn't stop you from sharing your opinions - I don't have that power. It also doesn't stop the devs from doing whatever it is they're going to do.

Some things are actually immutable.
Everything is not equally malleable.
But, I mean... facts are more important than what you post on the forums - if what you post are not facts.
And, not everything is necessarily in the wiki(s). Though, the lore about Sanctus is.
And if you had watched years of Steven sharing the lore during the ExtraLife Livestreams, you might understand better why the lore about the player races not being affected by Corruption is not going to change.

Dygz wrote: »

Some things are actually immutable.
Everything is not equally malleable.
But, I mean... facts are more important than what you post on the forums - if what you post are not facts.
And, not everything is necessarily in the wiki(s). Though, the lore about Sanctus is.
And if you had watched years of Steven sharing the lore during the ExtraLife Livestreams, you might understand better why the lore about the player races not being affected by Corruption is not going to change.

I'm aware of the lore and nothing I've suggested breaks it. Go back to the comment I made on Corruption. I never said it had an effect on the races I was merely talking to how over-the-top fantasy the lore is yet the races don't match that same level of energy.

I'm not saying Intrepid should change any foundational aspect of the game such as Nodes, PvP, etc...merely pointing out that there's an extreme lack of originality w/ the races and even introducing something as simple as non-human pigmentation can go a long way in helping it.

Conrad

I disagree, we are at a stage where designs can and will change. Steven wants a good game for everyone, and considering how there have been MANY ppl saying that the elves look generic, I would not be surprised if the elf design got changed. They want the game to be good and look good? They have to listen to feedback. And rn, the concepts aren't bound in stone, so there's still a huge opportunity to change.

And no, Dygz, they will change it. You talk like you know everything, but no, that's not how games design works, especially I'm the alpha. If you're looking for feedback with everything, then you want it for a reason. Unless Intrepid is not truthful and they only want feedback to make us think they are listening, and so far that has not been the case so I doubt we won't see design changes.

Conrad wrote: »

I disagree, we are at a stage where designs can and will change. Steven wants a good game for everyone, and considering how there have been MANY ppl saying that the elves look generic, I would not be surprised if the elf design got changed. They want the game to be good and look good? They have to listen to feedback. And rn, the concepts aren't bound in stone, so there's still a huge opportunity to change.

Case in point, people said the Dwarves looked off and Intrepid said they'll change the design up.

Maezriel wrote: »

Case in point, people said the Dwarves looked off and Intrepid said they'll change the design up.

Did they? Source? Very exciting if true.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

Case in point, people said the Dwarves looked off and Intrepid said they'll change the design up.

Did they? Source? Very exciting if true.

I can't seem to find a source right now, but it's been talked about so much (that there's a redesign coming not the hopes of one) that I'm fairly confident it's true...I'll link a source once I find it though.

Maezriel wrote: »

I can't seem to find a source right now, but it's been talked about so much (that there's a redesign coming not the hopes of one) that I'm fairly confident it's true...I'll link a source once I find it though.

Very exciting stuff. The argument that you should be able to tell a race by its silhouette is strong to me. I hope the DEVs agree.

Conrad wrote: »

I disagree, we are at a stage where designs can and will change. Steven wants a good game for everyone, and considering how there have been MANY ppl saying that the elves look generic, I would not be surprised if the elf design got changed. They want the game to be good and look good? They have to listen to feedback. And rn, the concepts aren't bound in stone, so there's still a huge opportunity to change.

And no, Dygz, they will change it. You talk like you know everything, but no, that's not how games design works, especially I'm the alpha. If you're looking for feedback with everything, then you want it for a reason. Unless Intrepid is not truthful and they only want feedback to make us think they are listening, and so far that has not been the case so I doubt we won't see design changes.

You can disagree, but that is how game design works. Alpha does not mean everything can change.
Everything can change is the quick path to vaporware. That's how game design works.
Dwarf design has always been slated to change because it is Alpha and what we currently see in Alpha are early iterations that will continue to be tweaked, rather than final versions. So, it has never been a matter of whether Dwarf designs will change, but how far they can change with the time allotted in the schedule and how far they are willing to delay release to make the changes.
That is going to happen regardless of tester feedback from the Alpha.
Bu,t yes, share the quote where Steven stated that because of tester feedback about the way Dwarves appear in the Alpha, they have decided to change the design of the Dwarves.
I don't think you're going to find that quote because what Maggie told me last Friday is that Toast would compile the feedback in the Forums and share it with the artists, but there would be no dev comments about it anytime soon.

ViBunja

Maezriel wrote: »

ViBunja wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

This is especially true when you're zoomed out as most people are during play.

I would suggest considering a change to make Elves more "elemental/colorful" so they can stand out a bit more...similar to Godlike from Pillars or Tiefling from D&D.

I'm not against a paler skin tone option for both , but I do think the game would benefit from some greens and blues to help distinguish Elves from the other races.

If you read the lore, you would know that elves and humans used to be one race, it got split into the elves and humans, so this is why it makes sense

I understand that, but this is also a highly magical world w/ alien space gods whose corruption has seeped into nearly every aspect of it.

There's no real reason that even offshoots of a race can't be visually distinct on their own.

Well, that is wrong. Since they have the same parent species it makes more sense that humans and elves look alike. And ancient myth about elves is that they are zombie humans from the great norse mythology. That's why humans and elves also look alike.

If we go by the lore, humans and elves need to look alike

mobtek

Make them taller like the Tanu in The Many Coloured Land

winner909098

I want there to be a difference, because I want people to know that they fell to an elf, not a human. There should be a visible difference from the start in the character creator, because races shouldn't just be buffs. Just because elves were once human doesn't mean that there was no time to evolve. There were thousands of years since they were the same, and so there should be a visible difference.