Compromise for DPS Meters: Tooltip Numbers

Dygz wrote: »

What I want out of MMORPG combat is to focus on synergizing the abilities people in the group like to use (according the characters they have individually crafted) rather than focusing on the numbers that will provide maximum efficiency). I'd rather strive to maximize Shadow abilities or Frost abilities for those characters who use those abilities rather than force a Feral Druid to switch to Restoration Druid or force a Shadow Guardian to switch to Guardian just because a combat tracker indicates Restoration Druid and Guardian result in the highest DPS.

There will always be a meta and Ashes combat so far seems no different then other mmorpgs when it come to that. Pvp players will squeeze any advantage they can get in their builds to make sure they kill your character. Players not performing will be bench for better players because you wont be getting any good loot if you cant put out the most damage on a raid boss or you are going to be homeless because your node just got destroyed because the people defending the siege where underperforming when better players could of been in their spots to prevent that from happening. You can't take the competitiveness out of a competitive game.

LMAO.
I'm not super worried about what happens in battlegrounds.
Outside of battlegrounds, either Corruption works to my satisfaction or it doesn't and I won't play.
I don't really care who wins a PvP battle outside of battlegrounds.
But, your bravado means nothing to me. It's just bullshit bragging as far as I'm concerned.
Competitiveness really has nothing to do with this topic.
No has claimed that not supporting DPS meters will remove competitiveness or that competitiveness is toxic.

Gimlog

Hum... Does some one have mention that if you go max DPS you'll become a glass canon and will hardly survive on any battlefields ?

Maezriel

Gimlog wrote: »

Hum... Does some one have mention that if you go max DPS you'll become a glass canon and will hardly survive on any battlefields ?

The classes are so early and combat so incredibly far from remotely set up that we really don't know yet.

Trax

ThexBlackxKnight wrote: »

There will always be a meta and Ashes combat so far seems no different then other mmorpgs when it come to that. Pvp players will squeeze any advantage they can get in their builds to make sure they kill your character. Players not performing will be bench for better players because you wont be getting any good loot if you cant put out the most damage on a raid boss or you are going to be homeless because your node just got destroyed because the people defending the siege where underperforming when better players could of been in their spots to prevent that from happening. You can't take the competitiveness out of a competitive game.

Mostly true, all though in games with sandbox elements, and even without, communities do arise that have different goals than being competitive.

Regardless, games with more fierce competitiveness due to higher stakes have already existed, and done so without meters. I’m fact, the methodology employed to determine skill ranking (large scale communal dueling, tryouts by dueling, dueling tournaments, etc.) is more beneficial to the overall health of the game than adding a data parser which gives you the answer generically. In fact, you’ll derive more information about a players ability by dueling them than you will by looking at a meter. And more importantly, you’re spending your time playing the game instead of analyzing spreadsheets or looking at websites. Dueling is superior to meters. Meters are unnecessary.

Inixia

Wow its so cool to see that everyone was able to finally come to an understanding on DPS meters

I admit that I was a little pessimistic on the fifth or so compromise proposal thread, but I'm happy to say I've eaten my words. I just needed to give it time. People really started to listen to each other and not polarize based on slippery slope conjecture.

Noanni and Dygz finally seeing eye to eye I see and dare I say, even blossoming a friendship?

I don't really want DPS Dummies, I'd rather have a DPS Meter or no DPS Meter. The reason is down to threat generation and how threat generation matches or fails when faced with Min/Maxed DPS. I would like some indication of my threat generation and Personal Dummies will only give me a number, not a correlation.

Edit: If the Devs gives Tanks a goad I won't care for a DPS Meter because I can simply Goad off the min/maxed DPS.

Nagash

should we merge this with the DPS thread at this point?

It won't matter Nagash because the compromise threads always end up with debates over parsers. That is why the older threads get left behind, as soon as a new thread opens the arguments can repeat with the same arguments from both sides.

Edit: Spelling mistakes.

Nagash

Neurath wrote: »

It won't matter Nagash because the compromise threads always end up with debates over parsers. That is why the older threads get left behind, as soon as a new thread opens the arguments can repeat with the same arguments from both sides.

Edit: Spelling mistakes.

It just makes it easier to ignore if its all in one place

Yeah, I've asked before why the threads don't get merged into the mega thread but I think the Devs have given up on the argument or even trying to curtail the argument. The Devs will just do what they want and the game will launch lol.

Dygz wrote: »

LMAO.
I'm not super worried about what happens in battlegrounds.
Outside of battlegrounds, either Corruption works to my satisfaction or it doesn't and I won't play.
I don't really care who wins a PvP battle outside of battlegrounds.
But, your bravado means nothing to me. It's just bullshit bragging as far as I'm concerned.
Competitiveness really has nothing to do with this topic.
No has claimed that not supporting DPS meters will remove competitiveness or that competitiveness is toxic.

Bravado has nothing to do with pointing out that guilds will calculating their damage one way or another because that is what they do in most mmorpgs. This is a pvp centric game so yeah competition is kind of the the fabric of what game is being built on. Corruption is not pvp immunity and your going to be attack by players so not sure why you really care that much about damage meters if you are not even going to play the game over pvp.

Of course you don't understand.
Because all you care about is direct PvP combat.
Which is why you think that a PvX game is PvP-centric.

Neurath wrote: »

Yeah, I've asked before why the threads don't get merged into the mega thread but I think the Devs have given up on the argument or even trying to curtail the argument. The Devs will just do what they want and the game will launch lol.

That's all the devs would be doing if they had to merge the threads every time someone makes a new one.

Dygz wrote: »

Of course you don't understand.
Because all you care about is direct PvP combat.
Which is why you think that a PvX game is PvP-centric.

More pvp centric then pve , in fact all pve content will be contested by pvp. Steven gave a reason for the corruption system so that you can remove unwanted groups from pve farming spots.

It is PvX.
"More PvP-centric" is your own bias.

Dygz wrote: »

It is PvX.
"More PvP-centric" is your own bias.

What can you do in this game that pvp wont interfere with? You can spend all your time in a city tell pvp destroys your city through a siege , travel around the world gathering flowers tell some corrupted rogue kills you for the fun of it. Most carebears wont even touch this game because you have no immunity to being attack in pvp.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

Competitiveness really has nothing to do with this topic.

It has literally everything to do with this topic.

People that want combatvtrackers want them because it allows them to compete better - whether that is in PvE or PvP.

The knowledge and insights gained while using a combat tracker to create a build will always be of use to the person that understands, no matter what the build.

If it turns out that the meta of sieges is stealth, a combat tracker can be used to help you build the best stealth build - if you know the right things to look for.

I am not at all sure how you can claim this topic is not about competitiveness, when that is literally the heart of it.