What about several guilds of one community?

It is trouble of RU Server BDO, and noone fix it. For example: one community about 1000 people, and they create Three guilds for 300 people

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Bekengizer

Use 1000 people for control one node, and made it metropolis it is real, and for pvp I can create 5 guilds with 50-100 people, and use max guild skills for my huge community for pvp, and i know communities who can made it.
I was guild master, and i had 5 trusted men for create 5 guilds and develop it.

Maezriel

Ventharien wrote: »

But it will be hard enough to "control" one large node as a large community, let alone a cluster. Their influence will be felt for sure, and they'll be the big name in the area, but with the multiple types of elections systems, the inability to restrict (not to mention zero desire to) immigration, and few other related systems, they're gonna have a hard time.

Will they?

Divine could be the hardest to maintain control simply due to it being based on quest...but if those quest are hard to the point where you can't solo them then a guild will be a huge help

There's already a few different Economic focused guilds so buying an election wouldn't be impossible

Votes are easy enough to gather if you're in a big guild

Even Military nodes aren't immune since people in guilds will have greater access to the best gear

Short of internal/social problems there's very little mechanics stopping a massive guild from taking over a few different nodes.

Dygz

Bekengizer wrote: »

Use 1000 people for control one node, and made it metropolis it is real, and for pvp I can create 5 guilds with 50-100 people, and use max guild skills for my huge community for pvp, and i know communities who can made it.
I was guild master, and i had 5 trusted men for create 5 guilds and develop it.

It's possible to make 5 guilds, it's not necessarily possible to puppet master all of them because the 2nd pillar of Ashes is meaningful conflict.

Just because there are 1000 people in the guild does not mean that that guild will always win a Node siege.
It doesn't guarantee that the guild will comprise the majority of citizens in each vassal Node.
Might be able to rig it so that the Mayors of the Military vassal Nodes are usually one of your guild members, but you can't guarantee that the Mayors of the Economic and Divine vassal Nodes are your guild members - you especially can't guarantee that the Mayors of the Scientific vassal Nodes are typically your guild members.
Running a Metro is going to need way more than 6 Mayors.

Songcaller

You could make 3 x 300 Member Guilds and then form an alliance to total 900 Members, except you'd be one guild and could operate as a guild under the alliance tag.

Ventharien

Maezriel wrote: »

Will they?

Divine could be the hardest to maintain control simply due to it being based on quest...but if those quest are hard to the point where you can't solo them then a guild will be a huge help

There's already a few different Economic focused guilds so buying an election wouldn't be impossible

Votes are easy enough to gather if you're in a big guild

Even Military nodes aren't immune since people in guilds will have greater access to the best gear

Short of internal/social problems there's very little mechanics stopping a massive guild from taking over a few different nodes.

Divine definitely has the highest chance to be difficult for large groups to guarantee. But in military nodes, YOUR gear won't matter, however the Champion system works will, and as they already switched that system around on the realization big guilds could game the system, i think there will be some useful safeguards at the very least.

When most people have concerns about big guilds, it's not the economic focused ones they seem to be worried about. I find it's mostly the big pvp ones. That said, economic could be easier, and scientific for sure is where it'll be the easiest.

That said, we also have to remember, just walking into an area doesn't mean you get to participate in election. You've got to purchase land, in one of the three forms, which is limited in amount. I imagine there will be several pissed off communities who have a majority of players in the area, but a minority of citizen ship.

Ventharien

Noaani wrote: »

It is highly likely that people will organize (at least loosely) in to a structure where a group of nodes provides all amenities players could want, all social organizations and religions covered. This allows guilds to live in a fairly confined area, while still allowing guild members access to most of the amenities they want, and also provides that multi-node society an assurance should the metropolis at its core be successfully sieged - leveling up one of the nearby city nodes would likely be pre-organized, resulting in the community having a different metropolis (most likely), but still being able to function as a large community.

Nodes that they to go it alone are not worth living in.

Like having a plan B node? Makes sense. Will be interesting to see if tensions rise at points like these with other cities thinking they should be the pick.

McShave

tautau wrote: »

Smaller guilds will be able to acquire guild skills and augments which the larger guilds won't have, so smaller guild sizes might end up more attractive.

Having smaller guilds isn't really a fix to this problem. If you have guilds of 50 people, you can still make like 20 guilds for the 1000 person community, and just manage them using external resources like discord and excel. And they can specialize the different guilds for extra efficiency.

Bekengizer wrote: »

Use 1000 people for control one node, and made it metropolis it is real, and for pvp I can create 5 guilds with 50-100 people, and use max guild skills for my huge community for pvp, and i know communities who can made it.
I was guild master, and i had 5 trusted men for create 5 guilds and develop it.

One thing I think of when it comes to guild size balance is that Intrepid has stated that large guilds will have less guild perks available than smaller guilds. But does this mean that a 50 person guild can fight off a 200 person guild? What about 4 x 50 person guilds all communicating with each other in some manner. This sounds devistating.

Now, how effectively they can control a node or castle or whatever is up to the command structure of the community. Everyone would need to communicate across the different guilds on discord. This would be rather difficult, but very much possible.

tautau

You are quite right that additive guilds could well be a problem. But do 20 guilds of 50 members each equal one guild of 1000 people in any way beside math?

Maybe not. Why? Because people. 20 guild leaders who are inherently ambitious. Their loyalty to the 'leader of leaders' varies, many want to be that leader. Each of the 20 guild leaders (and each of their assistants) have differing skills, including people skills. Some are good leaders, some are jerks, some are lazy, some are micro-managers and often the mega-guilds will fall apart.

If the 'leader of leaders' is able to build a team of good subleaders and hold the whole organization together and take over the world....good for them! That's what the game is about, right? But I don't think we will see that often.

Yuyukoyay

The idea behind the Guild Limit is that you wouldn't want a guild with too many to not be able to have bonus augments and skills anyway. So they are probably meant to be pulled from various sources and not just 1 guild. Which even solo players will have a reason to participate in.

Part of why they should make their in game chat perfect and ban discord. So that it's easier for pugs to communicate with other groups. I've seen so many Discords with stupid rules that ban you immediately if you do your first post wrong and it's required to get into actual voice channels. It's just a string of potential problems over just having voice chat be good in the game to begin with.

ForlornFly

I know a lot of people have brought it up, but the game is going to give incentives for a guild to be small. I doubt any actual limit is going to be put in place however, because the devs want to game to be player driven. They want the politics that come from players having as much freedom as they can reasonably give.

Maezriel

ForlornFly wrote: »

I know a lot of people have brought it up, but the game is going to give incentives for a guild to be small. I doubt any actual limit is going to be put in place however, because the devs want to game to be player driven. They want the politics that come from players having as much freedom as they can reasonably give.

It's also been discussed that many large gaming communities (many have been around for years) will just put officers in charge of smaller guilds if the perks outweigh those of larger guilds.

Bekengizer

And other truble, with several guilds of one community is they can just give castle for other guild in this community without fight, and it is very boring thing, I think need just moderate it with moderators. For example ban for a week or month for all guilds of one community.

Maezriel

Bekengizer wrote: »

And other truble, with several guilds of one community is they can just give castle for other guild in this community without fight, and it is very boring thing, I think need just moderate it with moderators. For example ban for a week or month for all guilds of one community.

Why?

One of the best parts of AoC is that it's not made by a company like Blizzard that wants to force players to play in a specific way. If you're in a node that is dominated by one mega guild then that should encourage you to find solutions to dethrone them.

The fact that other players are going to make for the best "raid bosses" will lead to some amazing moments and is why MMOs have so much potential for unique gaming.

I will outright leave if Intrepid starts putting rubber and rails in their sandbox.

Bekengizer

Maezriel wrote: »

Bekengizer wrote: »

And other truble, with several guilds of one community is they can just give castle for other guild in this community without fight, and it is very boring thing, I think need just moderate it with moderators. For example ban for a week or month for all guilds of one community.

Why?

One of the best parts of AoC is that it's not made by a company like Blizzard that wants to force players to play in a specific way. If you're in a node that is dominated by one mega guild then that should encourage you to find solutions to dethrone them.

The fact that other players are going to make for the best "raid bosses" will lead to some amazing moments and is why MMOs have so much potential for unique gaming.

I will outright leave if Intrepid starts putting rubber and rails in their sandbox.

Many people will not want detherone anyone, they just become citizens of strong node and strong community. Because it is most effective way. For example why i need other node if already have node with good blacksmith nearby, or why i need other node without dragon and dungeon?

tautau

We, the players, make the world we will live in.

If you don't like the way your world/server has developed then get like minded players together and change it.

That is why AoC is going to rock the world! We are free to build our worlds and, since we are all so different, that will lead to endless conflict and drama of all sorts, thus making AoC the best.

Of course, if that is too hard a world for you, maybe you and I can play checkers sometime?

Maezriel

Bekengizer wrote: »

Maezriel wrote: »

Bekengizer wrote: »

And other truble, with several guilds of one community is they can just give castle for other guild in this community without fight, and it is very boring thing, I think need just moderate it with moderators. For example ban for a week or month for all guilds of one community.

Why?

One of the best parts of AoC is that it's not made by a company like Blizzard that wants to force players to play in a specific way. If you're in a node that is dominated by one mega guild then that should encourage you to find solutions to dethrone them.

The fact that other players are going to make for the best "raid bosses" will lead to some amazing moments and is why MMOs have so much potential for unique gaming.

I will outright leave if Intrepid starts putting rubber and rails in their sandbox.

Many people will not want detherone anyone, they just become citizens of strong node and strong community. Because it is most effective way. For example why i need other node if already have node with good blacksmith nearby, or why i need other node without dragon and dungeon?

I mean if that's the case then a mega guild will have little effect on that as people are already going to rally around the Node. Steven has said that the goal is to design the game to encourage Node identity and progression over that of a guild.

Asgerr

I think we had similar discussions in the past. Here's my take:

If someone can manage and run a community of dozens if not hundreds of guilds all at once, without in fighting and betrayals: let them do so.

There is no moral right for your fear of said community controlling a lot of what happens, to dictate their inability to do so.

If you're against them, play the game. Cause conflict. Play the spy and sabotage them. Turn friend against friend. Offer them money to serve you instead of their diluted idea of a master.

Dygz

Bekengizer wrote: »

And other truble, with several guilds of one community is they can just give castle for other guild in this community without fight, and it is very boring thing, I think need just moderate it with moderators. For example ban for a week or month for all guilds of one community.

I think it's going to be a challenge to just hand over a Castle to an allied guild. For one thing, there is no guarantee that the meta-guild will win any particular siege... and...even if they did... those in the sub-guild are likely going to want to reap the advantages of the Castle for their sub-guild rather than for the meta-guild.
Because Castles give significant perks to the King and the in-game guild ruling the Castle.

If I'm the Monarch of a Castle, why am I going to listen to some other person trying to tell me what's best for my guild?

There will be plenty of reasons to siege and dethrone Monarchs and Mayors.
There are 9 races and only 5 Metros.
If the 5 Metros are Dünir, Niküa, Empyrean, Tulnar and Vaelune, my Vek is going to want to destroy at least one of those Metros in the hopes that I can eventually have access to Metro-level Vek quests, gear and mounts.

Yuyukoyay

Still want there to be decentives for 1 mega guild to control an entire section of the map by themselves. It really will make the game boring and completely stupid if it ever devolves to the point of 1 organization of some sort controls all of the key nodes on the map. People would likely not have the man power or the reason to oppose them if people just stop caring.

So decentives are important to keep people interested. It was a big reason why Lineage 2 died off in the end. People just stopped being interested in massive 1000 on 1000 combat. A lot of the outdated parts of the game also contributed to this, but that was a main reason. Since it left out smaller groups of players from these massive guilds. The smaller groups stopped caring to fill in the filler spots and max battles stopped occurring.

Another problem with leaving discord in the game is that the guild limit will not matter. They would just have the maximum limit to have full benefit and then start a new guild. Repeat that until their full guild from other games are in. Then make artificial alliances where they are technically not allied, but will pretend as if they are.

It's a lot different than forcing people to start their connections a new. A lot of the systems the game is being designed around work a lot better when you make new connections in this game without bringing a army from a previous MMO over. It's easier to manage it if it's just like a bunch of half party sized groups joining together. Not when groups enough to make raids are joining together though.

tautau

If a mega guild controls everything, I agree it will be boring. It will also be boring for many in the mega guild, right? They will drift off to other games or servers or maybe get a girlfriend or a puppy. Anyway, the mega guildies will drift off, thus weakening the mega guild.

Then the rest of us can kick the remnants out of power and fight over it all ourselves.

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