Vhaeyne wrote: » Dygz wrote: » But, I think we will already of some of that with permissions for our Freeholds. I think it would be cool if some NPCs blocked sales from their stalls for players characters they don't like. But, that is more challenging to program. Since we have an NPC manning our stalls -possibly even with the appearances of our player characters- it makes some sense that we should be able to refuse service to characters on our block lists. Just because the game is open world, does not mean our player characters should be obligated to sell to anyone who comes to our stall. But, it really depends on what the devs are able to implement. Personally, I would never in a million years block sales from someone I hate. Greed is more useful of an emotion than hate to me. That said, I could see people creating anticompetitive trade blacklists. Which could be good for drama and political intrigue. I just would worry that there is other possible abuse methods that are more destructive to the game. At a minimum, the trade blacklist would have to be separate from normal chat block/ignore. Otherwise, it removes the whole block/ignore feature from the game for guys like me who only block people when they spam. I also agree that it is extra crap to implement. The feature creep is real.
Dygz wrote: » But, I think we will already of some of that with permissions for our Freeholds. I think it would be cool if some NPCs blocked sales from their stalls for players characters they don't like. But, that is more challenging to program. Since we have an NPC manning our stalls -possibly even with the appearances of our player characters- it makes some sense that we should be able to refuse service to characters on our block lists. Just because the game is open world, does not mean our player characters should be obligated to sell to anyone who comes to our stall. But, it really depends on what the devs are able to implement.
Sathrago wrote: » My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it.
Sathrago wrote: » My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it. Which is worth more than the gold you get from them if they immediately use that new advantage to mess with you or your guild in a malicious or competitive way. If you set up a stall for this you would have to constantly monitor the sales or risk the above happening which I dont think is a hassle we should be forced to deal with. Not having the option is an annoyance and makes selling harder for players that are dealing with the above situation, and having it as an option is literally a check mark for you to press. I think there's more value gained from the additional option, don't you? just adding to this, This also can be used as a tool to force players to shop outside of their node or fight more fiercely for resources within it. It may put a hamper on short term transactions but I would expect an increase in trade as a result. You could even have political agreements where guilds demand a removal of this trade block or they will uproot and leave entirely, leaving the node vulnerable to attack.
Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it. My counter to this would be, if I had such an item, I wouldn't be selling it. If it were going to give a rival guild an advantage, it would give my guild an advantage as well.
Sathrago wrote: » Well we are talking about the sale of said item. So in this case it would be worth more in gold than the actual use of it since we are deciding to sell it. This can be because you already have one and its unique or say a recipe that your crafters already know. Basically its something you would be fine selling to anyone that is not your competitor/enemy.
Sathrago wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » My counter argument to this would be, you might be selling rare or powerful items that would potentially give the enemy player or guild a leg up over you if they get their hands on it. My counter to this would be, if I had such an item, I wouldn't be selling it. If it were going to give a rival guild an advantage, it would give my guild an advantage as well. Well we are talking about the sale of said item. So in this case it would be worth more in gold than the actual use of it since we are deciding to sell it. This can be because you already have one and its unique or say a recipe that your crafters already know. Basically its something you would be fine selling to anyone that is not your competitor/enemy.
Sathrago wrote: » In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else? My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_stalls
Dygz wrote: » Haha! Right! That is the world view of someone who does not RP. You play from the perspective of the player' not from the perspective of the character.
Vhaeyne wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else? My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_stalls There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation. 1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.) 2: We bank it for potential future crafters. 3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.) 4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.) To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable.
Sathrago wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else? My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_stalls There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation. 1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.) 2: We bank it for potential future crafters. 3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.) 4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.) To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable. Hey and that's all fair. I think this is just personal preference at this point. I would like to have the option to set and forget my stall with all my loot I want to sell, and have it not be sold to the creeps I don't like. Sure they could make alts or friends buy it, whatever I made them work for it. Perhaps the guild level stuff is not as important as I first thought, but I still think a single player having the power to decide who accesses their stall or inn is a good idea.
Vhaeyne wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » Vhaeyne wrote: » Sathrago wrote: » In response to both of you. A Guild has gotten all of their crafters X recipe, and now an extra of that recipe is in their hands. It is now more useful to them to sell said recipe than it is to keep it. Said recipe gives them an advantage over others because it just does. What do you do? Give this advantage to competitive/enemy guilds? Or sell it to someone else? My point is that you dont sell guns to people aiming to shoot you with them and a blacklist feature that you can use in your personal stalls is a good idea to help with this. This is my main objective in this conversation, to have a blacklist for personal stalls. A personal stall should allow for more personalized sales, I am not advocating that the general auction house use this.https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_stalls There is a few things I would consider as loot master in this situation. 1: Do we have strong allies that are willing to buy it? Maybe offer it to them discounted/free as a gesture of goodwill. (Goodwill has value.) 2: We bank it for potential future crafters. 3: We bank it to keep it out of the market. That alone has value to me. (I would buy recipes I know to keep them out of the market in some situations.) 4: We consider selling it to a noncompetitive neutral guild on the other side of the world. (This is the worst option, but it can't be ruled out.) To me, the personal stalls are just vending machines. I don't see anything personal about them. Sure you can customize them but in the end they automate sales. If I was a vending machine tycoon I would not sell anything valuable in them. As a buyer, I would not expect anything I bought from a vending machine to be super valuable. Hey and that's all fair. I think this is just personal preference at this point. I would like to have the option to set and forget my stall with all my loot I want to sell, and have it not be sold to the creeps I don't like. Sure they could make alts or friends buy it, whatever I made them work for it. Perhaps the guild level stuff is not as important as I first thought, but I still think a single player having the power to decide who accesses their stall or inn is a good idea. Also fair, I would like to warn you that having to maintain a block list on that level seems like it would be a lot of work. What if someone who is not on your block list buys from you to sell to someone who is? For high value items I would want to know my clients well in such a competitive environment. Maybe you should be asking for a whitelist instead? The 5 to 10 people who are allowed to buy this item...
Noaani wrote: » Grihm wrote: » If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either 1: Not end up ending on that list 2: Shop elsewhere and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed. This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc. This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner. It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both. Why would the mayor have any decision to make on this?
Grihm wrote: » If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either 1: Not end up ending on that list 2: Shop elsewhere and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed. This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc. This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner. It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both.
Grihm wrote: » Noaani wrote: » Grihm wrote: » If i had a store, i would like to as said before run MY store as i see fit. That means blacklisting, or limiting a single individual up to the full extent of a guild if needed, and it should be up to the owner fully. If a group does not like that, they should either 1: Not end up ending on that list 2: Shop elsewhere and i can see a system being useful and valuable that actually let you prove you have redeemed yourself, and may end up in the blacklisting being removed. This can be done by a number of ways through the Mayor, and his / her decision. Ranging from a big financial donation, access to a previously non accessible node, discounts in said guilds node and stores etc etc. This would also increase the powerplay in towns, and the mayor could even just take a big bribe, and hide away or have a huge house guard protect him / her while the town is forced to deal with renegades and thieves shopping as they please, and that in it´s own way open up a new citywide power storyline of removing the tyrant from the seat of power and again reinstall blockades to the traitors of the banner. It should never just benefit one side, but open up options for both. Why would the mayor have any decision to make on this? It was an example, as indicated by the etc etc in the end, and the " by a number of ways " in the beginning.
Grihm wrote: » Why should a person that behaves bad enough to end up on a block or ignore list, be given levels of freedom in doing trades and buy materials from someone that has taken the block / ban action?
