Player Collision Thoughts

I just wanted to start off by saying I realize this is still in an extremely young state of the game. I'm worried however that player collision could become a massive abuse, stability and gameplay issue. I do like the concept because of it being not used generally in mmo's. This is however usually for good reason due to just how many players tend to be in a given area at a time. My main concern refers mostly to pvp however this could become a major issue in pve as well.

PvP
The primary issue IMO is terrain abuse. I've spent a large amount of time doing such exploits in testing other mmo's in the past. Terrain interaction with player models is an issue at best when you can't shove other players around let alone being able to physically move someone independently. Glitching through castle walls in a siege for example would be a massive problem and abused to no end. Collision detection in some games also can create massive amounts of lag if not done properly which could be exploited by mass rushing someone and having tons of collisions happen at one time putting a strain on servers.

PvE
Another massive concern is obviously cities. Imagine having to wait in line to quest givers or vendors due to just sheer volume of other players in the environment. This was addressed by Steven during the stream saying that they'd be implementing some sort of system to combat this, which I believe they'll no doubt have to do. Earlier in the stream they were blocking each other from quest givers and from walking through doors. Again this could be addressed in a similar way mounts are dealt with in World of Warcraft where it auto dismounts you and prioritizes npc interaction over player selection. Even imagine being body blocked into a corner by a trolling ally during a boss encounter because they find it "funny"?

I'm not against the idea entirely and would be open to here how it would be beneficial but I personally can't see how it would in what is anticipated to be a very large scale mmo. It just doesn't seem practical in a world where all player interaction is based on some sort of large scale confrontation. Be it massive outdoor raids/pvp or just general questing in a busy area and a group decides to make a massive wall for stopping others from farming herbs, ores or even general quest items.

TLDR
The system seems too easy to abuse in the short term and do untolds amount of havoc to the long term health of the game in the worst case scenarios.

What are your guys' thoughts?

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Comments

Dusknoir

Damokles wrote: »

"Gramps did you fight in the war between the Great Northern Alliance and the Southern War Boiz?"

oddly enough I did in eve online, and....

"Do you mean the Great CPU Wars of 2023 my boy? Yes. The whole guild participated. You could smell the burning cpus and melting grafics cards miles from the battlefields."

This pretty much says it all. and thats without collision

Noaani

PracticalChip wrote: »

player collision will have to be removed in large scale battles or we will have to be running the game off of server class 60 core cpu's and the game will have to support that.

It shouldn't require that much processor overhead, unless there is pathfinding needing to be done (Summoners may have an issue).

luky685

noaani wrote: »

PracticalChip wrote: »

player collision will have to be removed in large scale battles or we will have to be running the game off of server class 60 core cpu's and the game will have to support that.

It shouldn't require that much processor overhead, unless there is pathfinding needing to be done (Summoners may have an issue).

I think with the scale they're thinking of the battles I'd say minimum 40v40 if it's guilds going at it. That coupled with the engine itself and the amount of unimaginable effects going off that would strain any server to it's limits as well as lag out most peoples pc without factoring in having to process every player hitting 1-4 other players and registering that collision. We'll all just have to see how it plays out I guess.

Damokles

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Personally, I would prefer a system where you are stopped by collision, but if you kept trying to go forward, it would let you go through after a second or 2.
That would prevent the issues of being blocked from something by another.

I still like the idea of doing this

Okay, now we really have to start a Blood Bowl league!

Only if we can use dwarfs as the footballs!

Nagash

Damokles wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Personally, I would prefer a system where you are stopped by collision, but if you kept trying to go forward, it would let you go through after a second or 2.
That would prevent the issues of being blocked from something by another.

I still like the idea of doing this

Okay, now we really have to start a Blood Bowl league!

Only if we can use dwarfs as the footballs!

I think halflings or goblins would be better

Powurshot

Yeah my gut reaction is... this is not a good idea. Especially after seeing how they got blocked in a room during the live stream. But, the more I think about the less sure I am about it. I think it would be wiser to test it in alpha 1 and then make my mind up.

Undead Canuck

Nagash wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Personally, I would prefer a system where you are stopped by collision, but if you kept trying to go forward, it would let you go through after a second or 2.
That would prevent the issues of being blocked from something by another.

I still like the idea of doing this

Okay, now we really have to start a Blood Bowl league!

Only if we can use dwarfs as the footballs!

I think halflings or goblins would be better

Wasn't the traditional ball a trussed up Snotling before they came up with the spiked one?

Nagash

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

Undead Canuck wrote: »

Personally, I would prefer a system where you are stopped by collision, but if you kept trying to go forward, it would let you go through after a second or 2.
That would prevent the issues of being blocked from something by another.

I still like the idea of doing this

Okay, now we really have to start a Blood Bowl league!

Only if we can use dwarfs as the footballs!

I think halflings or goblins would be better

Wasn't the traditional ball a trussed up Snotling before they came up with the spiked one?

we can't use Snotling now because of the C-Virus

Drask

Hopefully, they are pushing the physics to the GPU's. Too many games push this stuff onto the CPU and you run into these problems.

Collision could be a really awesome part of the game when it comes to tanks, especially. Shield walls and phalanx formations could be game changers in PvP. I'm hoping that they do implement some anti-griefing measures though. I like the idea of disabling some of it when you are not in combat.

Leiloni

leonerdo wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

TERA did player collision as well and it worked really well. Glad to see it here - I think it adds a lot of good to a game.

It only has collision with enemies though.

No it definitely has player collision outside of safe zones, or at least it did when I played and that would be a very strange thing to change.

Lalli

I think they showed player collision in the alpha 1 preview if I'm not mistaken.

Nagash

Lalli wrote: »

I think they showed player collision in the alpha 1 preview if I'm not mistaken.

they did

Trikyfizzz

Sarevok wrote: »

Activate player collision outside safe areas. While inside, disable player collision and unmount players when entering buildings. If the town is under siege then player collision is enabled.

I was thinking the same exact thing. I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking this way.

T Elf

I would rather not have collision perhaps with the exception of sieges. Generally, I think it's a PITA.

Trikyfizzz

I think it would be cool to see a bunch of tanks all lined up with shields ready to take on a charging enemy, preventing them from just passing through and charging for the throne room (after taking the gate) during a siege to take the victory without a fight.

Solvryn

I think player collision is a must have in any good PvP game.

It requires a different mindset to make work. People are going to be naturally spread out so I highly doubt it'll be much of a issue.

runestone

Ventharien wrote: »

leonerdo wrote: »

The only reason to have it is immersion, but most of the "immersive" interactions will just be frustrating.

But you don't think it will be immersive? And i feel like alot would simply be solved by easily implimented things, like multiple clerks, bankers etc. and also not making the 'Capitols' the only place you ever want to be. Trying to avoid situations like thunderbluff and silvermoon in wow.

So your opinion is that CD will force PvE people to spread out instead of congregate at one point.
Just like it does in PvP.
Or heaven forbid, come back later when it is a more quiet time with less people to choke access.
Just imagine if you had to queue and be given quests in a sequential manner too, rather than parallel

For me its essential for PvP as shield walls, denail of access, choking, funneling and effectively managing AoE radius of effect.
This is situational/environmental awareness/impact, that enables tactics outside of simply playing whack-a-mole. I think choking/funneling is a necessity for effective zerg busting too. Then there is the literal controling the battelfield of open field warfare.

I think there may also be a roleplay intimidation game play argument to it as well.
Deliberately bumping people outside of dualing that are considered in-game antagonists, if not outright enemies. Maybe instigating AI guard intervention if within range.

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