Please balance pvp

i keep hearing that intrepid have no plans on balancing classes and there will be a clear advantage in pvp due to picking 1 class over another, i feel like this is a massive mistake, most serious pvpers will spend alot of time grinding dungeons/crafting etc just to be able to duel and participate in open world pvp, not having any balance straight up removes the chance of have any dueling aspect or arenas in this game and if the only real pvp that is happening is seiges the game could get boring super fast at end game, given the fact that the game is still years away from release, intrepid have enough time to resolve this issue and i think it should be deeply looked into if this is being advertised as a pvp game? just my thoughts. what do you guys think?

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ariatras

maouw wrote: »

Just think of pokemon:

all pokemon have weaknesses (with exceptions)
But it's balanced because you create a team of pokemon.

You can do the same in Ashes - create a mixed party to cover each other's weaknesses

I dig the analogy.

Ravel

In PvP it remains important that you always have a fighting chance, or the believe that by improving your skill you will get a fighting chance in the near future. If not, PvP will die in this game before you know it, even when you seek the company of large groups to hide the fact that you actually suck at PvP.
The alternative could be a combat system that makes PvP fun even when you lose a lot.

Cold 0ne FTB

The game is in A1 so it's really not a big deal. Enveus had an unofficial dialing tournament a few tests back and form what we saw the classes were pretty well balanced. Mage seems to counter cleric, cleric counters tank and tank counters mage. This isn't exactly how it always work out. There are ways for certain classes to beat their counters. As a mage I have beaten tanks and I have lost to clerics. It's not perfect but it's not as bad as where it was when axe throw two shot most players.

The other thing people need understand is that balance will have a rock paper scissors style so certain classes will definitely counter others.

Aerlana

in wow vanilla, 1v1 PvP was not fair at all, it clearly was rock-scissor-paper balance.
And... i don't have the feeling wow vanilla is hated for his pvp part.
Most complains came with arena during BC. When people began considering PvP as competition.

You consider if you fight your hard counter, it is lost at 100%... False. just look in MOBAs, if you take a character and you are confront to the hard counter character of yours. is it loss ? If you are equally skilled, yes, you won't win your lane alone, so or you play safe, avoid to get killed, and get as much creep as possible. Or... teamplay => the jungle will help you more than other lane. and the team wins. If you are more skilled that your oponent, yes he has the hardcounter, but you can outmatch him.

This is what i expect to have. some people my build will counter, some that counters mine (and. yes also some matchup even. we speak about 8 classes, with each 8 variation. there will be also "fair" matchup)

the rock-scissor-paper balance is the only one that can fit high identity class system. i never saw a game which manage to have real class identities AND a good balance 1v1.

Also, you mainly think as PvP in a 1v1 way... But... why 1v1 ? why don't you go as a group, 4, 5, 10 people doing things ? More people = more balance a game is. We wont be in solo game like BDO, WoW or FFXIV
Each class will have strengths and weaknesses. This is why there will be counter-class. But if you play with another, or 2 other. now the team itself will have different strength and weakness that yours.

And one last thing about the "games need to be balanced" : If you really played open world PvP, you know, that open world PvP is nothing but balance. it can never be balance. Give all people the exact same character, the skill is not what define who wins... while it is true in 1v1, 2v2... it is false in 1v5, 2v7 3v9 or even in 6v8
and this is what we will see : a "group" of random size, confronting another group of random size. Also, openworld PvP is a lot about ambush, you dont call "in one minute, i will attack you". And again, the one who does the ambush gets a strong advantage for the win. but if he ambushes a guy which is his counterclass, finally, the matchup is not in his favor BUT because he can strike at the best moment (while the other is in fight with a mob for example) he can totally win... Or he can be with no bravery and just wait to find a more easy prey.

And dont speak about "we want fair fight" ... i will just laugh about it. open world PvP is some people doing it fair yes i saw it, but most people doing it totally unfair ways. I saw far more rogue attacking me from shadows while i just did some quests, fighter jumping on me while i was on fight with a mob, or archer waiting i was far enough to move of the tree and attack me... than any of them just going in front of me, waving his hand before doing fight. . .

This is also what i wait in AoC... unfair matchup, unfair team size, unfair ambushes.
I understand people who want balance in 1v1. but you clearly forget what open world PvP really is

kevinoozling

@Aerlana
I’m talking about overall balancing

Chicago

Aerlana wrote: »

in wow vanilla, 1v1 PvP was not fair at all, it clearly was rock-scissor-paper balance.
And... i don't have the feeling wow vanilla is hated for his pvp part.
Most complains came with arena during BC. When people began considering PvP as competition.

you are correct, however i just finished playing classic wow, im taking a break from tbc though, wow vanilla ends up not as rock paper scissors as you would think, yeah some classes have an advantage but any class could do extremely well in duels depending on the player, so your skill level was more of an factor than rock paper scissors wich is how i think pvp should be, if you want to learn your class, spend countless hours practicing, gearing, learning/dueling etc, losing to another class just because its a rock paper scissors is bad gameplay, obviously you can have counters but there should always be that dinamic where you can get a leg up on a counter class just by being better or making good plays, this also creates character immersion

just my two cents

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