Lone Wolfing It

Can you do everything in this game without having to join a guild?

Will players not in a guild be able to live in a city and get bonuses?

*late edit - How will they prevent these mega guilds, McGuilds as I call them, from owning all the nodes?

**The rest of this is an incoherent rant, feel free to skip.**

I've had too many bad experiences with guilds and maybe by sharing, you'll avoid the same mistakes. Maybe you can avoid putting in 1000s of hours and have nothing to show for it.

When in a guild, I always feel like I'm working for a private, small circle of friends (Officers). Gathering their mats, filling raid slots in order to funnel all the gear to Officers.

And once the Officers (and their alts) have all the stuff they need, they disappear to their private channels and never interact with the rest of us, unless they need something for themselves again.

But Dudebruh, why don't you start your own group or raid? I've attempted that so many times. Seems like the only ones that fill groups or raids is when an officer graces us in guild chat. Last week on SWTOR, I even saw someone in the guild get in trouble because they started to form a raid of their own and some officer came in to say that they were doing their (officers) raid soon and that guy better disband and didn't have permission. lolwut? Yep, apparently, in a 1000 member guild, you can't run group content when officers are running their 16-man raids. That's just one example over the course of playing MMOs for over 20 years.

I didn't realize this culture existed for a long time. Until one day, I got a tell from one of "the circle of friends" to join their Beast Raid (Anarchy Online). I was told to never tell anyone else and I could come on every raid if I didn't break that rule. These guys had a whole farm system in place, making billions of credits selling loot rights, etc. it was like playing a whole new game after that point.

He said the only reason I was asked was because:
1. People in the guild seem to like me (I'm a clown in guild chat).
2. I always help new players. As in, drop what I'm doing and come help. (Anarchy Online is a brutal game to start out in).
3. I listen to the raid leader and didn't do stupid crap to get myself or others wiped.

Personally, I think 2 & 3 should be a standard for all guildies. Why sit and do nothing because the Tank isn't logged in, when you can go help the level 12 new guy that happens to be leveling a tank? You know, so you don't have to wait for the only Tank in guild to log in?

While, it was amazing to get in on a rare opportunity, I felt like it was kind of crap that it was happening behind the scenes. It answered so many questions. For example, never playing/leveling in a group with an officer. How are they so geared up but never seen them playing? People asking in guild chat for help but nobody replies. Endless questions going unanswered in guild chat. Officers forming up in chat for raids that they need to get done, but never for the rest of us asking for help in guild chat. Mat requirements. High taxes (AO, EVE). These all became red flags at this point.

And of course the looming threat that if you don't meet their requirement each week, you'll be kicked and will never be able to do those mystical guild events or raid so you can funnel gear to the officers. lol

I think I stick around simply because of FOMO. I feel like I'll miss out one day of doing something amazing, but that day never comes. Then I get bored and unsub until I get the urge to play again.

I never go on a raid expecting loot. Never. And if they are the type that "we roll for gear at the end" lol, forget it. The same certain people always win those rolls because "reasons". I no longer bother rolling, at the very milli-second the last boss dies, I quit group and go back to doing whatever I was doing before the raid. And what do you know, 20 minutes later I find out that Officer Billy won all the loot. Surprise surprise! *rolls eyes I'm just not going to stand there for 20 minutes and watch the same 3-4 people give themselves all the important, meaningful loot anymore. I'm just not.

I go once to play through it. And that's it. Why waste my time or work for somebody else that doesn't even talk to me unless they need something? I'd rather go help a lowbie level up than gear up Officer Billy's 12th alt while I am wearing trash gear (or whatever is BIS that can be obtained solo).

Or worse, you get inspected. They tell you that you can't come because you need some piece of gear that gives you 0.1% more dmg which requires 40 players to get. Ok. Let's go get it. "No, Officer Billy's 12th alt needs that before you do." WTF?!

In regards to AOC, I can just see these types requiring "the help" to bring x amount of mats to build and maintain their city and/or for crafting. That's it. That's why you are in their guild. I won't be apart of it. Don't get me wrong, I'm a team player. But that doesn't mean abuse.

On a side note, I think some of these officers take their online video game "authority" a little too seriously. Tone it down, it's a meaningless title irl. I can't take you seriously when you're on the mic huffing and puffing from mashing keys with your sausage fingers, sounding like you just ran a 10K. Ease up, it's a game. If you ever took along "the help" we would probably get better and satisfy your requirement to what is a "good player". Just a thought.

Ok, rant done. Yes, I know that I am 100% to blame for joining these guilds to begin with. That somewhere out there; there are guilds that are fun to be in. Oh do I know this.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Dudebruh

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

If want to and choose to, you can almost completely eliminate the chance of joining the groups that you don't want to run with up front by simply asking them about the loot distribution rules so that you don't get screwed.

Right, and when we ask, we are told those rules. And those rules are almost always: "Officer Billy needs that loot for his 12th alt more than you do. Maybe next time (which never comes)" Then they disappear to their private channel until they need something for themselves again.

Really, there's a solution to this. I just don't have the time to do it - Start my own guild. But so far, playing without a guild, PUG group content, and buying loot rights seems to work better than being in a guild.

In fact, I get more invites to do group content from people in other guilds than from my own guild. lol

FuryBladeborne

Ok. I wouldn't join a group that told me that up front unless they had a clear path to when loot becomes evenly distributed. If the raid group is regularly downing the bosses and I come in to join, I wouldn't be upset if they didn't want me to be able to grab the best loot on my first couple runs and disappear. On the other hand, there needs to be some form of fairness once I have put in the time in the group. There are various point systems that can delay new entrants from early claims but shouldn't be confused with unfair loot distribution.

FuryBladeborne

Dygz wrote: »

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

@Dygz
I don't think that I said anything about joining a guild. I talked about group content and how even for the things that can be done alone such as crafting or combat, your still largely relying on others. i.e. You can't craft anything start to finish alone; or, for combat: combat balance is stacked against you for at least one class (if not more). So, going it alone in combat may mean that you have to flee frequently against that class rather than standing a chance in a fight.

But, the OP is concerned about not needing to join a guild and explains why they don't want to join a guild.
Group content is a derail.

Group content is not a derail. Obviously, the OP was not asking: can I do all the non-group content without a group? The game is being designed for group content. The OP is asking if the content can still played without a group. Talking about whether group content limits being able to play is the exact topic.

Ok, I shouldn't have said "guild or raid group" in the middle of my earlier post. It made sense because like 80% of the OP post was about guilds, but I didn't need to say guild. The point was groups. My entire post was about whether all content could be done solo. My answer is: there is a lot of group content that cannot be done alone; and, a lot of the content that can be done alone cannot be done fully and is still set up in a way that works better in groups. i.e. since almost all gear is made by players and you can't create gear alone you are reliant on others for gear; and, since combat is misbalanced on a per class basis: you may not be able fight all classes alone.

Dygz

I know. But, the OP wanted to know if you had to be in a guild to do everything.

Dudebruh

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Ok. I wouldn't join a group that told me that up front unless they had a clear path to when loot becomes evenly distributed. If the raid group is regularly downing the bosses and I come in to join, I wouldn't be upset if they didn't want me to be able to grab the best loot on my first couple runs and disappear. On the other hand, there needs to be some form of fairness once I have put in the time in the group. There are various point systems that can delay new entrants from early claims but shouldn't be confused with unfair loot distribution.

I realize that there are raid groups that do that. But then there are raid groups that just use guildies that are not in their circle of friends in order to fill raid slots and keep all the loot for themselves.

In Anarchy Online for example, we use a point system and I wouldn't be able to loot until I have accumulated enough points. I'm not whining about that kind of system, I'm whining about being used by a core group of 4-5 people that run the guild and ignoring the rest of us until they decide they need something for themselves again.

I've played many games and been in many guilds. There are some pretty abusive scumbags out there.

FuryBladeborne

Dygz wrote: »

I know. But, the OP wanted to know if you had to be in a guild to do everything.

The name of the thread is Lone Wolfing it. No group. So, between the thread name and the OP, the question is no groups or guilds.

Dygz

Nope. In this case Lone Wolf means not joining a guild.
It doesn't say anything about not joining groups and especially doesn't say anything about not relying on others for crafting.
It doesn't ask whether it's possible to do everything without relying on other players.

FuryBladeborne

Dudebruh wrote: »

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Ok. I wouldn't join a group that told me that up front unless they had a clear path to when loot becomes evenly distributed. If the raid group is regularly downing the bosses and I come in to join, I wouldn't be upset if they didn't want me to be able to grab the best loot on my first couple runs and disappear. On the other hand, there needs to be some form of fairness once I have put in the time in the group. There are various point systems that can delay new entrants from early claims but shouldn't be confused with unfair loot distribution.

I realize that there are raid groups that do that. But then there are raid groups that just use guildies that are not in their circle of friends in order to fill raid slots and keep all the loot for themselves.

In Anarchy Online for example, we use a point system and I wouldn't be able to loot until I have accumulated enough points. I'm not whining about that kind of system, I'm whining about being used by a core group of 4-5 people that run the guild.

I've played many games and been in many guilds. There are some pretty abusive scumbags out there.

I don't disagree with what you are saying here, but I do think you can find a fair regular raid group if you bother to ask the right questions at the start. On the other hand, if all you want to do is occasionally run a raid with various random groups, then yes you will frequently run into the type of situation that you describe as those groups have put in significant effort to learn how to complete the raid (at least if it is a difficult raid; as it should be) and are most likely carrying the random player that joins.

FuryBladeborne

Dygz wrote: »

Nope. In this case Lone Wolf means not joining a guild.
It doesn't say anything about not joining groups and especially doesn't say anything about not relying on others for crafting.
It doesn't ask whether it's possible to do everything without relying on other players.

Whatever. I feel like your purpose is to argue over any random thing that you can find rather than to actually provide something useful to the OP. I'm done.

Dudebruh

@Fury

Dygz wrote: »

Nope. In this case Lone Wolf means not joining a guild.
It doesn't say anything about not joining groups and especially doesn't say anything about not relying on others for crafting.
It doesn't ask whether it's possible to do everything without relying on other players.

Correct. I'll still be doing group content, I'm just not going to waste my time joining a guild. This thread is to clarify if there is anything I will miss out on by not joining a guild.

So far, I can still participate in raids, smaller group content, and sieges without having to be in a guild. Unless there is another game loop or game mechanic I'm not aware of, it looks like I'll be just fine without spending my time in game funneling all the goodies to some circle of friends that doesn't care about me or my character progression.

FuryBladeborne

Good for you

bloodprophet

There will be bonuses to joining a guild. What these actual benefits are we don't know yet.
Most gear will be crafted and bosses will drop materials so in theory you should be able to buy either the materials or the completed items for almost all gear.

Reading through you initial post brings way more questions. Like why stay if the guild is not going to help each other out? I would have quit that guild waaaaaaayyy sooner. Any guild screwing over their members like you described is not a guild I would want anything to do with and the first time some other guild asked me by personal invite to join them I would have left and joined the people asking me to come play.
I left a guild an RL friend is in for silly shit the guild leader does. Get better friends and don't be afraid to move on.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guilds

TheDarkSorcerer

I love MMO's, especially in PvP. But i mainly solo or play in very small groups. That's what i enjoy. I will join a guild, but won't be actively playing with dozens of people in it. I don't like people like that lol.

Dudebruh

bloodprophet wrote: »

There will be bonuses to joining a guild. What these actual benefits are we don't know yet.
Most gear will be crafted and bosses will drop materials so in theory you should be able to buy either the materials or the completed items for almost all gear.

Reading through you initial post brings way more questions. Like why stay if the guild is not going to help each other out? I would have quit that guild waaaaaaayyy sooner. Any guild screwing over their members like you described is not a guild I would want anything to do with and the first time some other guild asked me by personal invite to join them I would have left and joined the people asking me to come play.
I left a guild an RL friend is in for silly shit the guild leader does. Get better friends and don't be afraid to move on.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Guilds

Complacency.

Because once in a blue moon, one of us plebs spamming for help in guild chat might need help with a quest I'm also trying to get help with (...But then we can never find a tank and healer so it never happens anyways lol).

I don't know man. The smaller, good guilds don't really invite strangers. Especially in games like EVE Online. And for reasons that @FuryBladeborne mentioned, they don't want some new guy coming along, looting, then leaving the guild. All understandable.

I'm not expecting to be showered with loot and credits when I join a guild. I'm expecting to not sit on my ass waiting for some officer to make us do what he wants to do, to progress his character.

And though I do often times have friends in good guilds ask me to fill a spot once in awhile (as a guest), their guilds are pretty hardcore about schedules and whatnot. I've been asked to leave my guild for theirs, but I wouldn't be able to meet their commitments.

But yeah, I'm left asking that question all the time. Why am I in a guild?

Guilds have changed over the decades. Some are ran like a business now. I came back to one game and got some random invite (I know, those are the bad ones). They were making people follow their Twitch channel as a requirement for staying in their guild. I quit that guild later that day, but still, goes to show you that some are only in it for themselves and using others.

I can think they suck and are abusive, but I do realize by staying in these McGuilds, I'm to blame.

daveywavey

The problem with this sort of leadership is that guild leaders often start to believe their own hype. They start to think that they're entitled. In one of my guilds in ESO, I was "reprimanded" for sticking up for a fellow guildie who was being bullied. Didn't stop me, obviously, but they tried it. You've just got to look around for the right ones. Get to know the leaders when you join, and if they're not right for you, then leave to find better ones.

Dygz

@Dudebruh
If creating a guild still only costs 500g at launch, I expect most people will join in-game guilds before hitting Level 10...just so they can participate in Sieges and get some of the in-game guild perks.
But, I also expect there will be a lot of those guilds will be run casually rather than being hyper focused on everyone playing with uber efficiency.

Dudebruh

daveywavey wrote: »

The problem with this sort of leadership is that guild leaders often start to believe their own hype. They start to think that they're entitled. In one of my guilds in ESO, I was "reprimanded" for sticking up for a fellow guildie who was being bullied. Didn't stop me, obviously, but they tried it. You've just got to look around for the right ones. Get to know the leaders when you join, and if they're not right for you, then leave to find better ones.

Yeah, I had that happen before.

I was "scolded" the other day for looking out for a follow guildmate.

Yet again, some Officer was claiming all of the loot for his 9th alt. I said in guild chat, "Hey, why don't you let Peon #37 have some gear for once so that we can have another healer when you Officers are not around?"

He pulled me into a private chat and got on me about leadership, loyalty, and being a team player. LOL

Me, a 44yr old former Marine, small business owner, and can retire at 50 is being reprimanded by some kid with a retail wagie job flexing his "authority" over me.

I think they just need validation or something. I really do. That's how miserable their lives are.

Jxshuwu

My personal advice as someone who was a former lone wolf, make your own connections and play off of that. Realize and accept that content will be limited, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy your experience. Try out new things you can do on your own that you never did because you were part of a guild such as gathering/crafting/refining. Make friends, invite them to parties etc. Its tough to find likeminded people, but there's other lone wolves out there, trust me.

Oh and, there's going to be a profession named ''Bounty hunter'', you can make a living off the heads of corrupted players by tracking them down. The concept is really cool, maybe you'll like it.

Tyranthraxus

Dudebruh wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

The problem with this sort of leadership is that guild leaders often start to believe their own hype. They start to think that they're entitled. In one of my guilds in ESO, I was "reprimanded" for sticking up for a fellow guildie who was being bullied. Didn't stop me, obviously, but they tried it. You've just got to look around for the right ones. Get to know the leaders when you join, and if they're not right for you, then leave to find better ones.

Yeah, I had that happen before.

I was "scolded" the other day for looking out for a follow guildmate.

Yet again, some Officer was claiming all of the loot for his 9th alt. I said in guild chat, "Hey, why don't you let Peon #37 have some gear for once so that we can have another healer when you Officers are not around?"

He pulled me into a private chat and got on me about leadership, loyalty, and being a team player. LOL

Me, a 44yr old former Marine, small business owner, and can retire at 50 is being reprimanded by some kid with a retail wagie job flexing his "authority" over me.

I think they just need validation or something. I really do. That's how miserable their lives are.

I'm in the pool of others in this thread who are dumb-founded that you are in/stay in such guilds.

Why not find better?

By now, it's certainly no mystery as to why you would have an aversion to guilds.

Tyranthraxus

Child Item