Suggestion: Imgame selection of the Class

initial post changed see below

Currently its on the caracter design window where the player has to select its class like it is kinda default in every mmo rpg

but what if:

the class selection is made ingame in the starting zone where you also can learn what base stats are the one that each class may need. it would also allow for a later change of the class so if a player did go tank and at one point may be dissatisfiyed with its class he can eter start a new character or simply resets its choosen class for a fee and select an other class (timelimit between switches) so he doesnt have to loose all progress he made incl housing crafting and else to do all over again.

so players design their character enter the world getting thru a short tutorial where they can select their class and also learn more about the classes. also getting starting gear and weapon as a reward maybe some additional xp as well, to start the jurney. the npcs may then later acct as selection of the augmentation class as well giving infos and let you selet the augument.

then maybe allow a switch of the augment every 14 days and a switch of the baseclass every month or so. but depending on the option comes with a gold fee. that would also add a possebility to counter inflation on the currency and adds more options to the players specialy it they might not have to much free time due to work and rl. so they also can test other classes without them have to grind themself up again and get all the housing crafting and else done again.

i personal would like such a system, even do i might go and haveing all classes as maxed character myself like i did in other games.

changeing post

change prime focus on main class not on augmentation

Asraiel wrote: »

may do it on a smaller scale races does have diffrence in base stats that is given. but not every class matches every race in optimazation & augmentation. but insead of a ingame class selection, adding the option to switch between 2 or 3 classes that are close together in behavior, skills, dmg typ.

example:
main class mage can switch to summoner
templar to gladiatior
hunter to rogue
and so on

if over quest or npc, if gold fee or questline, if limited in use or unlimited, these variables i leave open.

those switches requires not a compleat gearchange since the switcheble classes use the same type of dmg, shure some gear might be in stats better suited for one of 2, but overall wouldnt cause to much change.
caster remains caster, melee stays melee, supporter keeps supporting

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JustVine

https://youtu.be/D_HiruGypwQ

What is your opinion on something like this? (Fair warning I watched this muted with cc so I don't know if they are obnoxious, but what is on the character creation screen is the focus here.)

Asraiel

JustVine wrote: »

What is your opinion on something like this?

Hmm seeing that base stast would be nice in char design maybe even explained what it is for and maybe also a info panel what class uses what stat the most. but if it comes to selection of class that then to be a ingame over npc selection. so it can later on be switched to another class if not sadisfiyed with it or wanna test out diffrent agumentation.

but only class and augment as switcheble. race remains the choosen also gender. but maybe ther will be lader on some ingame npc vendors that sell char recreation stuff for ingame gold. (seen it in the way of a real money item and because of the race diffrence it may lead to p2w shout outs) so better sticking there to ingame gold to be save

Dygz

I think it's fine for Ashes to have Archetype selection similar to what's been implemented already and if some other game wants to provide the method you suggest...great.

Aerlana

All class on one character vs the more traditionnal one class per character (here is one archetype) does impact the game in far more ways than you think.

Before i explain, i remember you we will be able to change the second archetype thru a quest already, so this will be possible. also the 8 class you can have from your main archetype will be more like "specilization" than really "different class" because while augments modify class skills, the class skills and main stats depends only on the main archetype.

On a game where you can play "all" the choice you do while creating a character has no real impact for after. And this lack of impact lead to loss of identity of each players. in MMORPG where the choices matter, there is some kind of pride with your race, your class. When doing alt is too easy, or when you can have all class on the same character easily, there is no more pride for it. I don't say it is bad or good, but just it is a real difference.

this is a thing where we mostly have to just trust the choice the devs made. because it is deeply included in the whole philosophy that direct the game development.

Karthos

Why?

I feel like most people make these suggestions just because they are bored. There's quite literally no benefit to changing the current system, at all.

Why complicate something that's been simplified for the very reason that it makes no sense to over complicate it?

Dygz

I think the vast majority of players will already know what Primary Archetype they want their characters to be before entering the game and having a character test out the Archetypes in-game after character create is not going to change their minds.

Asraiel

shure i know the classic way of selecting classes did even have any possible class in one game maxed (9 classes there) incl all geared for pve or pvp in a game with high content being rng bases shure it gives you something to do. but not everyone has the time to spend the same amount of h in a game like me and there are others that even let me look like a noob with haveing up to 6x as many playhours as i had.

but there will also be many peoples that simply cant afford so many hours in a game. giving a ingame class selection option and maybe a class change option doesnt change the old fashion system. noone has to change but if someone wants he can. it unlocks just the possebility and a game like ashes that has so many diffrent systems effecting players its no big deal having that as well.

Ashes in general specialy since im here right now during the Alpha one where only a tiny amount of systems are programmed and many others only been wisperd on gives the opportunity to make such suggestions. its a way to give an imput on somthing that may never was thought of. if its gonna be implementet or not is up do devs to decide. i only did the inseption

bloodprophet

Older thread about this and what some of us thought at the time.
I am still hard set no against having the ability to change your primary archetype at any point for any reason.

Being able to change your primary archetype at anytime cheapens peoples play time and lessens the class structure. Gear will have stats and not all stats will be good for all classes. Look at current WoW for the last several expansions gear has all the stats for all the classes that can use it and as you change roles the stats change with your role change. This is ultra weak and lessens class identity. The players ability to customize their character to their liking/play style. The old days you could choose to stack different skills at the cost of something else crit over haste. Now the stuff is so badly homogenized to account for the role changes and "balance" everyone is the same.

Rift at launch I played mage went Pyro/archon. I specced and stat stacked for crit based build. Slow for the first 20-30 seconds then 20-30 seconds later I have aggro from the raid boss because I started crit rolling on the boss and the Parsers(meters weren't in yet) showed slow build and spike and plateau above everyone else.
This build and gear set was not good for other classes. Things need to stay separated to keep class identity and roles firm to promote group play.
When everyone is everything like GW2 grouping in not needed just go face roll and never build the community/team work need to do harder things.

This thread died a while ago and that was a good thing. But feel free to read people's thoughts.

https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/comment/245534#Comment_245534

Asraiel

well the game i did get the most expirience in rpg was Aion me ending with having maxed out char types:
Templar, gladiator, cleric, chantor, mage, summoner, hiunter, assasin, gunner, mecha and bard ene ervy char with 1 proffession maxed (crafting) as well geared for pve and pvp. cleric was my main class but i started once with gladiator and switched due to the situation that healer were most needed and rare ingame. but as healeing class that also coold do damng i ended up with 4 gearsets. and these were all kinda primeclass bound. like robe for casters, chain for cleric or chantor, plate for templar and gladiator, lether for assasines and hunter with physical boost and also lether with magic boost for gunner and mechs.

was hell of a grind took me around 3 years but once i had them a update came with lvl increse and boom all gear was crap.

for me in personal i like to play healer but there are also the time when u just wanna dps yopur enemys down from far or beat them up in close combat. so haveing the other classes permanent was the way to go for me. but not everyone has that ammount of time up their sleve as i do. so they only made 1 maybe and alt as well but that was it.

as u refering that having a class and switch it makes it weak because the gear doesnt wsitch with the change say it all even by giving the chance to do a switch not many would use it specialy not if their dmg or geartype needs to be switched as well. I see more of the chance that some peoples may do a switch between mage and summoner or tank and gladiator or so. that way their gear still delivers the benbefits.

augments is a diffrent thing there you need kinda to have the time to test what suits u the best even if some of the names inspire your fantasy you cant tell what the effects of the augments does and so you might choos the wrong one.

@bloodprophet i partly read in the posted link, my suggestion here doesnt intend to mix skills by choosing block from tank metor from mage.
you choose a class and u have the skills of the class if u switch you get the skills of the new class.
augments apply only bonus effects on skills and doesnt give skills itself, maybe like if the heal "regeneration" getting augment from "Gift of the Magi" it then does restor hp and mana for exaple but the mana it will give is a lot lower than the origianl skill, same otherway around then the heal would be lowered. or it will be apply a compleatly diffrent effect casue of devlopment decisions

now what is better:
option 1: having dissatisfyed players that may even make a break because they dont wanna redo all the lvling and grinding up again because they choosen the wrong augment
option 2: giving them the chance to switch it after some time for a ingmae currency fee?

i go with option 2 its better to have them keep playing

in the end i see your fear but that only plays if you belive everyone would use such a class change ingame to the maxed extend. there would definetly be some that may do it with a alt char some may do it in the lvling up progess as well onced reached maxed lvl i dont think there will be many useing it and a big chunk will never touch it. so everyone has a win on it.

+ you need to consider this is a subribtion game not a f2p crap that getting flooded with tons of players that will turn down the qualety of the playerbase.

bloodprophet

Everything should be swappable 2nd arechtype ,augments and so forth.
Your primary arechtype will not be swappable.
I agree with this choice.
Alts will be a thing and should be.

Noaani

Karthos wrote: »

Why complicate something that's been simplified for the very reason that it makes no sense to over complicate it?

I wish more people went through this exact through process more often - not just with posting here, but just with life in general.

Aerlana

Asraiel wrote: »

option 1: having dissatisfyed players that may even make a break because they dont wanna redo all the lvling and grinding up again because they choosen the wrong augment

Here from the wiki :

The secondary archetype of a class may be changed, but not "on-the-fly".[8][11]

Players will likely need to speak to a NPC in a Village node or above to enable them to change their secondary archetype and skill augments.[41]
This may be done through a quest system.[42][43]
There probably will be a cooldown associated with switching secondary archetype.[42]
It may also be possible to swap between multiple specs after the cooldown period.[42]

So you won't have to redo a character because of bad choice of secundary archetype.

And for primary, you have to redo leveling with your idea (one character all primary archetype) or in alt system.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alts

The alt will be able to receive completed item (like stuff) from the main. Also cosmetic (cash shop thing) you have from one character can be transfered from one character to another in the same account.

So doing an alt (or more) or having all primary archetype on same character is for playtime side, the same thing.

Asraiel

@Noaani freedom is complicated, dictatorship is easy, but i would hate to life under a dicatorship

maybe i expirenced to much freedon by living in the only country with a direct democratic system

Noaani

Asraiel wrote: »

Noaani freedom is complicated, dictatorship is easy, but i would hate to life under a dicatorship

maybe i expirenced to much freedon by living in the only country with a direct democratic system

I literally have no idea what you are talking about here.

Being involved in a direct democracy system (even if only on a canton level) should require you to think more, not less.

George_Black

I like it when your character is completely fresh in some games.
Then, through interesting questing, at the very first lvs you choose to be a mage or fighter or rogue tank etc. And at early mid lvs you get your specilized class.

But the thing is that today mmo combat, weapon and class systems have more depth to their behaviour and that is why you have to choose your path at the character creation step.

Atama

As long as there is a clear indication of the advantages of each archetype in the selection process I see no reason to not make the player choose prior to entering the game. If they log in and gripe that their Ranger isn't healing people, well they should have paid attention before clicking on that. I doubt it will be a problem though. Almost every MMORPG has you pick race and class (if those exist) before you begin play and it doesn't hurt anyone.

Worst case scenario you delete and make a new character. It shouldn't take very long to realize you dislike your archetype. It's not like you are going to have 12 hours of game time before realizing you don't like it.

And if that's the case, oh well. Make an alt. This actually happened to me in a few games; in TERA Online I leveled a Berserker 2/3 of the way to max level before deciding I can't stand it. That's a lot of time committed to a character I don't like anymore. Whatever, it's now a relatively high level alt that is useful to my other characters I enjoy more.

Noaani

George Black wrote: »

I like it when your character is completely fresh in some games.
Then, through interesting questing, at the very first lvs you choose to be a mage or fighter or rogue tank etc. And at early mid lvs you get your specilized class.

In some games this does work - games where the protagonist is an ordinary person in an extraordinary situation specifically.

Since in this game we are supposed to be accomplished adventurers before we step through the portal to Verra, it just doesn't really work *here*.

ariatras

I generally like ideas like this. (Ragnarok Online for example) But from I can tell, Ashes doesn't allow manual stat allocation. So it's not really something that I would consider useful here. The only way to customize ones stats is through gear.

Asraiel

ariatras wrote: »

I generally like ideas like this. (Ragnarok Online for example) But from I can tell, Ashes doesn't allow manual stat allocation. So it's not really something that I would consider useful here. The only way to customize ones stats is through gear.

may do it on a smaller scale races does have diffrence in base stats that is given. but not every class matches every race in optimazation & augmentation. but insead of a ingame class selection, adding the option to switch between 2 or 3 classes that are close together in behavior, skills, dmg typ.

example:
main class mage can switch to summoner
templar to gladiatior
hunter to rogue
and so on

if over quest or npc, if gold fee or questline, if limited in use or unlimited, these variables i leave open.

those switches requires not a compleat gearchange since the switcheble classes use the same type of dmg, shure some gear might be in stats better suited for one of 2, but overall wouldnt cause to much change.
caster remains caster, melee stays melee, supporter keeps supporting

Asraiel

Dygz wrote: »

I think the vast majority of players will already know what Primary Archetype they want their characters to be before entering the game and having a character test out the Archetypes in-game after character create is not going to change their minds.

for alphas and beta testers i agree but on those that may come later to that game and coulndt test it your during testing may it be harder to decide.

mainly my ideas doesnt look at pro players or adicted players that are here befor the release. i look on the new players that will start their jurney in Verra after release or even years later. and on those that doesnt spend 6" hours a day to play that may play on weekend 6 h a day but may during the week sometimes not play it.

ashes has great concepts and i hope it will be live for 20+ years but. it missing one mayor thing its not gonna be released in a world that has no or only a minority of other titles in it as mmo rpg genres like WoW had on release. there are almost countless other mmo rpgs on the market. so it needs to stand out but also give a userfriendly environement. for example may heard of the sandboxgame in devlopment "DualUnivers" with a estimated playground size the size of europ and build up to have 2 million active players on only 1 server. i tested it frist chise after char makeing 20min tutorial or 1h tutorial during the tutorial getting shown a room with around 40 other tutorials that may take even longer, enetring a world huge and free to players interaction but dead no other players around. it sounds amazing and is definetly something never done befor but i dont belive it will be as succsessfull as it could have been by changeing some of the features planed.

well a bit away from ashes but jep if seen tons of good games disapearing or became alsmost unplayeble due to decrese of playerbase. and did accwire that knowlegde over the past 25ish years of playing games (befor i was to young and tecnology wasnt that advanced or cheap). but all i can to share my thoughts and ideas. the mayor thing i learned in the time the vast majority doesnt reply or share their thought its the minority. also if 20k of 100k allredy know what class they wanna play it doesnt make them the majority.
i know more that know in what direction they wanna go if they love close combat or dealing dmg from afar or love playing supportive. but cant point on 2 words in a text and say befor played that this is their class.

on a other game i played gladiator at frist. casue the game befor was a hack and slay, but then i saw the need for healers so i did switch to healer befor the 1. char reached max lvl. after sometimes it got boring cause healer ment that you play a diffrent game than the rest. the rest trys to erase the red bar on a mob while the healers goal was to keep the tanks and other mates red bar glowing fully in the shiniest red possible. so i started mage first it was a relife dealing dmg again but i missed a bit the supportive aspect so i ended up playing summoner instead of instand dmg i used dots and debuffs to assist my mates. so by playing the same game i had 4 main classes. and you guessed right i wasnt alpha or beta tester i came about 4 years after release to the game.

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