Concern about classes with no self heal

I have a concern about non-healing archetypes that have no self heal (like tank and mage in current alpha). Also, I am thinking of primary archetypes, before they get their second archetype, which they could always go secondary cleric if they need self heals.

If non-healing archetypes have self heals, it can make 1v1 or small group pvp battles much longer, boring, and frustrating. Also, archetypes would start to feel a bit same-y and healing archetypes would feel less important, and almost irrelevant to some extent.

But if they have no self heals, these archetypes would struggle at solo play. You can't party up with a cleric all the time, so I feel each archetype needs some sort of sustainability. As the game is now, they would need many potions (expensive), or wait after each combat for health to regen (boring).

As I don't actually have access to the Alpha-1, there may already be a solution that I am not aware of. But if this is an issue, I don't know what the solution here should be. I played a warrior in classic wow, and it was tough in the early levels. I had to bandage or eat food in between each fight, and it was extremely dull. But I am against every archetype having some sort of self heal, as this would lead to lack of class identity.

Any thought, opinions, or suggestions?

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Comments

Atama

For what it's worth, this is completely out-of-date. It doesn't match what is in Alpha at least. If you went by that there is no self-healing but they've clearly changed things. (And since it's Alpha I guarantee they'll change them again.)

Dygz

(If that was a reply to me, I went by the current info, but forgot to factor in the bonus effects that can be added for Rank 2 and Rank 3).

RocketFarmer

Tanks did feel the pendulum effect from being a little OP in the earlier alpha.

Magnumwood

Steven has stated that combat is not designed around solo gameplay

Noaani

I'm not sure what the concern here is, to be honest.

Every game has classes or builds that are better for solo play, and in Ashes that may well simply mean a class or build with some manner of self heals.

Classes without it can just be considered for use when you expect a healer to be present.

CROW3

An ice-cold lager is my self-heal.

McShave

Noaani wrote: »

I'm not sure what the concern here is, to be honest.

It was more a discussion on how to avoid boring gameplay (eating between mobs). But I think we came to a conclusion with out of combat health regen. Thanks for stopping by tho.

Magnumwood wrote: »

Steven has stated that combat is not designed around solo gameplay

I'm not asking for the whole gameplay to be redesigned, i just wanted a little something for the solo players to help in grinding before they get their secondary archetype. Like i said, concern is relieved.

Shadow Phoenix

To add to the conversation, I think a few people need to remember a few points that seem to be getting ignored:

- They're designing this game with group mechanics in mind, not the solo player. Can you kill one or two mobs solo, then take a break to reheal? Yes. Should you be able to roll through a zone and kill a bunch of mobs with little to no significant downtime? NO.
- Combat is still not even close to fully fleshed out, so many more skills/augments will allow for different gameplay, so most of us can only guess what will be coming to each class, though based on Steven's statements, we can assume some things, such as "Not everyone will be able to do everything".
- Class system (lvl 25 secondary class) augments may allow you to get those "heals" you are looking for, but expect them to come with opportunity costs on DPS/Tanking ability.

Percimes

As a solo player in most mmo, I'd say it depends if we're talking about self-heals while in combat or out of combat.

It's totally fine if the options are limited while you are in combat, which include being chased by a monster or another player. Healing potions for example. You chose to play a class with no healing, on your own, with no group mates to support you. You should know the risks associated with that choice and live (or die) with them.

Out of combat is another matter. It's been a long time since I played a mmo in which the out of combat downtimes were significant. Downtimes were ridiculous in EverQuest, mana regen was slow, health regen even worse. It was already "solo friendly" in that regard in DAoC. I'd say the tricky part is how easy it is become out of combat. One option I think would be interesting would be that the longer you've been out of combat, the faster you regen you health/mana. So if you are chased by people and manage the shake the pursuers off long enough to become out of combat you don't heal to full under 10 seconds. Bandages and some food could speed that a bit.

CROW3

Percimes wrote: »

One option I think would be interesting would be that the longer you've been out of combat, the faster you regen you health/mana.

Good idea, as long as it’s calibrated well. e.g. I’d want to make sure it’s not a bs tactic in pvp events.

Noaani

McShave wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I'm not sure what the concern here is, to be honest.

It was more a discussion on how to avoid boring gameplay (eating between mobs). But I think we came to a conclusion with out of combat health regen. Thanks for stopping by tho.

Then why isnt the threat titled "Preventing Boring gameplay"?

I mean, mana based classes (especially squishy ones) have to spend time waiting for mana to regen while out soloing. Why focus it only on the needs of classes that actually take hits and need heals?

RocketFarmer

I would imagine the regen times are something they will still need to fine tune later on.

The passive skills, like health regen would be necessary for a non-self healing character if they want to play solo.

The balance is not in 1v1 but in how a character is in a group versus solo. The baseline will be the 8 person group. The solo character, with all things being equal, will find life a bit harder. Plus, they are trying to incentivize grouping up, which includes grouping with strangers. That is they way of old school MMO RPGs that Steven is trying to revive.

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