I want a recall stone.

I know you want us to travel everywhere manually, and for the most part I agree. However, it would be nice to have a "once a day" recall to the nearest city/town/whatever. It would help friends gather up when they first login or let a player relax and log off for the night in town...

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Shoklen

When it comes to "logging out" just when attacked... It is an interesting problem as in the old day people would just yank the cable on their modem. Sure they would still be in-game for a moment but the game would sense the connect loss and make the character invincible till finally removed from play.

Okeydoke

Like Vhaeyne, I'm just here to say no to all summoning and teleporting. The family summon system and the scientific node teleporting are not like omg cant play this game if that's a thing, to me. But I just think the better answer is no.

With the family summoning I think it's kind of silly that you could summon a family member to an actual dungeon. At the very least people should only be able to be summoned to a family freehold or a node. And then they set off on their adventure from there.

Traffic to and from dungeons and points of interest should be visible to everyone so that watchful observers can make decisions like lets avoid that area for now or lets go there and ambush them for their mats. If one guy gets to the dungeon area, ducks off in a corner, summons a family member, who then summons another, who then summons another, etc, that circumvents the ability of other rival groups to monitor traffic and make decisions.

There should never be a situation where 1 guy slips through an area that a group of players is tactically holding down and 4-8 minutes later that 1 guy has turned into 8 guys. Or that 2 guys has turned into 16. Absolute garbage game play. If the 1 guy slips through, great, good for him, now the group holding the area down has to be mindful that one guy is loose behind them. But it shouldn't magically turn into 8 guys 4 minutes later. If 8 guys want to slip through then let them all slip through the old fashioned way.

Okeydoke

And no to hearthstones. The return to town time of a raid should be factored into the total time of the raid. Emergencies will happen where people have to log off. They should log off immediately, it's an emergency. They can probably hand off whatever mats to one of the other party members. And when they log in again, they can get out of whatever mess they're in without the risk of losing much.

Khronus

Okeydoke wrote: »

And no to hearthstones. The return to town time of a raid should be factored into the total time of the raid. Emergencies will happen where people have to log off. They should log off immediately, it's an emergency. They can probably hand off whatever mats to one of the other party members. And when they log in again, they can get out of whatever mess they're in without the risk of losing much.

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous answer. OFC you will have to factor in travel time. This has always been the case unless the game sucks and you can just teleport everywhere. With AoC, the opposite is too drastic. Even a 30 minute travel time turns into an hour reduced from actually raiding assuming you don't meet any opposition. So if I am running a raid night of 4 hours, 25% of our time is travel. People have obligations and with how many players already have negative emotions about guilds, this just amplifies how negative organized raiding is going to be. Two nights a week at 4 hours a night turns into only 5-6 hours of raiding and this is assuming it's even in your area, no water travel, player delays, finding enemy players. The math just doesn't add up to keep large groups of players engaged to play long term. People will get bored of the travel as they did when mounts didn't exist in games.

This game is going to end up being roaming to only local areas or zerging while numbers just diminish as the day goes on. This is a hot mess in terms of organizing. Handing off materials to another party member is a great idea. Allowing them to then hearth back and deal with their emergency would be fantastic. Shame on any player having an emergency! They deserve to be punished by logging out and traveling back alone at a later date!

Who cares about their risk of not losing much after trading their top end loot off before logging, it's that waste of time playing alone and traveling back that they don't deserve to deal with.

Dreoh

Khronus wrote: »

Okeydoke wrote: »

And no to hearthstones. The return to town time of a raid should be factored into the total time of the raid. Emergencies will happen where people have to log off. They should log off immediately, it's an emergency. They can probably hand off whatever mats to one of the other party members. And when they log in again, they can get out of whatever mess they're in without the risk of losing much.

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous answer. OFC you will have to factor in travel time. This has always been the case unless the game sucks and you can just teleport everywhere. With AoC, the opposite is too drastic. Even a 30 minute travel time turns into an hour reduced from actually raiding assuming you don't meet any opposition. So if I am running a raid night of 4 hours, 25% of our time is travel. People have obligations and with how many players already have negative emotions about guilds, this just amplifies how negative organized raiding is going to be. Two nights a week at 4 hours a night turns into only 5-6 hours of raiding and this is assuming it's even in your area, no water travel, player delays, finding enemy players. The math just doesn't add up to keep large groups of players engaged to play long term. People will get bored of the travel as they did when mounts didn't exist in games.

This game is going to end up being roaming to only local areas or zerging while numbers just diminish as the day goes on. This is a hot mess in terms of organizing. Handing off materials to another party member is a great idea. Allowing them to then hearth back and deal with their emergency would be fantastic. Shame on any player having an emergency! They deserve to be punished by logging out and traveling back alone at a later date!

Who cares about their risk of not losing much after trading their top end loot off before logging, it's that waste of time playing alone and traveling back that they don't deserve to deal with.

Unfortunately the fact of the matter is (with few exceptions) any fixes for "emergencies" is something that can be exploited.

If you have an emergency which causes you to lose something, it's extremely unfortunate, but occasional emergency loss is a better alternative than exploits running rampant.

daveywavey

Admittedly, one of the reasons I stopped playing Star Trek Online (apart from the shitty ground combat, all the unnecessary nerfs, all of the ......) was that it took so fricking long to fly anywhere. I got really bored, really fast. But, there was pretty much nothing in the open space area. Hopefully in Ashes there'll be enough to keep us interested along the way.

Okeydoke

The waste of time of playing alone and traveling back? They had to travel back anyway with the raid party, the lost time isn't the issue. It was lost in the first place. There's a good chance they'll die trying to get out of the dungeon, unless there's currently someone in there clearing, which would make them respawn in a respawn spot. Or maybe there will be mob avoidable routes in dungeons, we don't know yet.

Either way, they had to log out at a very non ideal time. It sucks. But the average person is not going to just have emergencies all the time. It's something that's pretty rare per individual player. Might happen every raid, or every other raid, but not always to the same person. Unless you just have that type of people in your guild that are in a state of emergency on a daily basis.

The typical raid night is going to be much different than raids in WoW or other games. Other than the small amount that's supposed to be instanced, raid guilds are going to be dealing with a whole bunch of other issues like the things you talked about. Player interference, enemy guilds, enemy nodes, competition over the spot. You might show up to the raid and it's already all cleared, and there's a group or groups that have been waiting longer than you for the respawns and they're not just going to let you take it because Bob in your guild has kids and work in the morning.

Guilds that know what they're doing will have multiple plans for "raid night." If we can't get access to dungeon A, we try dungeon B, if not dungeon B, then maybe we turn this into a fishing expedition night or a caravan run, we got everyone here for it. And if none of that is optimal at the time, maybe we just go raise hell with one of our enemies. Fluid plans.

Intrepid has to design the raids to account for all of this. 4 hour raids may be untenable for the average player when there's 2 hours of potential interferences at all times. Might have to reduce the length of individual raids, or any number of other ideas they come up with to suit the game and its circumstances.

Okeydoke

Take the scenario of the guy who had to log off because of an emergency. He handed off his loot to a guildie. He logs in the next day. He might just suicide out. A lil xp debt, durability loss, no big deal. He also might just walk out of there alive.

Or he might log in to a full blown war going on in that dungeon. People flagged, bodies dropping, maybe he kills someone who's flagged and gets a lil loot for himself if he manages to get out of there alive. Does loot from dead players drop to the ground and is it lootable by anyone? I don't think we know yet, but maybe he scoops up a bunch of loot and takes off. Maybe he gets away, maybe he doesn't but its frickin hilarious and exciting. CONTENT. Maybe he picks a side and gets your guild a new ally, an ally that will cooperate with your guild to complete dungeons in the future.

That's the beauty of the game, the variety of content, the fact that you can't just teleport away from content you didn't even know would happen. Smart guilds will have scouts across the map, learning the politics of areas, who wars who, who hates who, who are potential allies, how hostile to passersby are the people in this area of the map or that area. How often do caravans run in this area, who's running them, who's attacking them. Almost nothing is a waste of time. Intel will be important. Diplomacy will be important.

That one guy logging back in from an emergency conceivably could find out some valuable info about the goings on of the area. Or he might just have fun with whatever happens. Or he might get screwed in some kind of way. Won't be the first or the last time.

Dreoh

People always want ever-more convenience and cry about lack of content.

Nobody wants to stop and smell the roses in the many fields of flowers along the way, they rush towards the store-bought bouquets at the end of the road.

Dygz

We're gonna test without a hearthstone to see how fun it is.
It's a standard enough feature that the Daybreak/Ashes devs should not have a problem implementing a Hearthstone if they decide -after testing- that they wish to implement one.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

We're gonna test without a hearthstone to see how fun it is.
It's a standard enough feature that the Daybreak/Ashes devs should not have a problem implementing a Hearthstone if they decide -after testing- that they wish to implement one.

Cool.

We are still going to talk about what we think about it though.

If you don't want to participate in that discussion, don't.

JustVine

Okeydoke wrote: »

Like Vhaeyne, I'm just here to say no to all summoning and teleporting. The family summon system and the scientific node teleporting are not like omg cant play this game if that's a thing, to me. But I just think the better answer is no.

With the family summoning I think it's kind of silly that you could summon a family member to an actual dungeon. At the very least people should only be able to be summoned to a family freehold or a node. And then they set off on their adventure from there.

Traffic to and from dungeons and points of interest should be visible to everyone so that watchful observers can make decisions like lets avoid that area for now or lets go there and ambush them for their mats. If one guy gets to the dungeon area, ducks off in a corner, summons a family member, who then summons another, who then summons another, etc, that circumvents the ability of other rival groups to monitor traffic and make decisions.

There should never be a situation where 1 guy slips through an area that a group of players is tactically holding down and 4-8 minutes later that 1 guy has turned into 8 guys. Or that 2 guys has turned into 16. Absolute garbage game play. If the 1 guy slips through, great, good for him, now the group holding the area down has to be mindful that one guy is loose behind them. But it shouldn't magically turn into 8 guys 4 minutes later. If 8 guys want to slip through then let them all slip through the old fashioned way.

Hmm. I think some of those concerns are valid. However, it is possible to design the 'call' zones to be in wide open areas to handle that particular aspect.

Okeydoke wrote: »

Take the scenario of the guy who had to log off because of an emergency. He handed off his loot to a guildie. He logs in the next day. He might just suicide out. A lil xp debt, durability loss, no big deal. He also might just walk out of there alive.

Or he might log in to a full blown war going on in that dungeon. People flagged, bodies dropping, maybe he kills someone who's flagged and gets a lil loot for himself if he manages to get out of there alive. Does loot from dead players drop to the ground and is it lootable by anyone? I don't think we know yet, but maybe he scoops up a bunch of loot and takes off. Maybe he gets away, maybe he doesn't but its frickin hilarious and exciting. CONTENT. Maybe he picks a side and gets your guild a new ally, an ally that will cooperate with your guild to complete dungeons in the future.

That's the beauty of the game, the variety of content, the fact that you can't just teleport away from content you didn't even know would happen. Smart guilds will have scouts across the map, learning the politics of areas, who wars who, who hates who, who are potential allies, how hostile to passersby are the people in this area of the map or that area. How often do caravans run in this area, who's running them, who's attacking them. Almost nothing is a waste of time. Intel will be important. Diplomacy will be important.

That one guy logging back in from an emergency conceivably could find out some valuable info about the goings on of the area. Or he might just have fun with whatever happens. Or he might get screwed in some kind of way. Won't be the first or the last time.

I think I see what concern you are getting at here. I don't think family summon working on people in zones of interest is a requirement for it's intended design purpose.

Okeydoke

I'm not sure what you mean by the call zone being in wide open spaces. But yeah I'd really hope you cant family summon in zones of interest, sounds like an awful idea.

I think were going to wind up with teleportation mechanics of some sort. A hearthstone to freehold on a long timer, unable to be used while holding lootable items in inventory just makes too much sense, in that it won't do a ton of damage to the open world but provides a lot of convenience.

But even that barebones teleportation will do some damage to the open world. My opinions on teleportation are not based in sadism (or masochism, since I'd be subject to it too) or "punishing" people like Khronus said. There is a direct inverse relationship between how lively, active, engaging and content filled a world feels and teleportation. You give to one side of the equation, you take from the other.

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