AOC content already no longer obtainable

The fact that before the game even has launched there is already content that is no longer obtainable is mind boggling. One of the biggest reasons wow classic became popular was because people wanted a way to do content that was removed with cata. The fact that your game hasn’t even come out yet and you’ve already made certain cosmetic sets and mounts no longer obtainable is such a massive stain on this game. Any completionist who had the slightest interest in this game is now turned off. Someone needs to seriously ask Sharif what on Earth he is thinking by doing this. It is NEVER okay to remove content from a game thus depriving any future players of a complete experience. I suggest these cosmetics are added back into the game.

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George_Black

Why should this guy get all the limited cosmetics, when he isnt even that interested in the core designs of the game:
Risk v reward
Open world instead of instanced content
Community economy and world build.

If you can't find joy and good times in that then go elsewhere and collect all the mounts. ffs

JustVine

George Black wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

Meanwhile, we try to get combat right and this guy worries about collectables.

Shows the state that the mmo genre is in. Meaningless gameplay designs

This sounds like a person who has to stand completely still when chewing bubble gum.

This sounds to me like a made up scenario inside your head that makes you look like you are winning.
Are you winning tho, son?

People can care about cosmetics and combat at the same time. If you can't no hard feelings. I just don't understand why you set yourself up like this all the time when attempting to bully others for not being like you. Seems like a stressful life.

Ahh... how about you stick to my posts instead of trying to figure out what's going on on the other side of the screen?
You seem desparate for validation unlike me.
Let's stick to the discussion then:
I find completionists concerns unimportant.
I find peoples demands that limited cosmetics be available to them, even though they didnt SUPPORT the studio on it's grassroots when it needed to see that people believed in the vision, PETTY.

We both agree on this point.

Noaani

Kionashi wrote: »

CROW3 wrote: »

Kionashi wrote: »

but don't lock cool concepts away for people who want to invest in the game closer to release...

What do you mean by 'concepts'?

concepts like "wizard hat" or "frozen armor" or the ghost ship we saw in previous support packs or the rabbit mount we saw in February

There will be other wizard hats, and other frozen armor - just not the exact ones that have already been offered.

They are not making the art pieces available again, that means nothing for the concept of the individual pieces.

Dolyem

Unkempt Foliage wrote: »

Looking cool is important in RPG setting. Different people value it less than others but it's still important.

Also not everyone has access to alpha and this is something they can critique, whereas combat they can't since they don't have hands on experience.

Also you could say they same thing about Intrepid. Why are they pumping out sets already if there are more important things.

To be fair, all of the people who got the earlier skins are going to feel cool as heck. And allowing everyone to suddenly use them would drastically reduce the cool factor

FuryBladeborne

"...The exclusive nature of the limited availability is something I think collectors value. If you buy cosmetics as an MMO player, I know I enjoyed if the cosmetic is rare and not every girl at the party is wearing the same dress..."
-Steven Sharif
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cosmetics

Exclusion is one of the main features in Ashes. There are a number of systems in game that are exclusive in their nature. Some examples of exclusion other than cosmetics are, developing a node in one area locks out other nodes (and the related rewards). Only a relatively small number of people in a node will be able have in-node housing that is visible in the world. The number of flying mounts will be be so limited that only about 0.0004% of a server will have them. I'm sure that I could come up with more, but I think the point has been made. Nobody will be able to collect everything.

On the other hand, variants of store bought cosmetics will be obtainable in the game without RMT.

Vhaeyne

Kionashi wrote: »

I can understand that, and the solution would be to stop putting exclusive cosmetics from now on...even if is too late to bring older cosmetics back form the exlcusivity hell we can stop any more cosmetics from becoming unaccessible to 95% of the proyected playerbase...

I explained earlier in the thread that is what would need to happen.

It is important to keep in mind that the monthly supporter packages are marketed as "Pre-order packs". It stands to reason that once the game goes live, they would discontinue the program. I think they have even explained that before, but I could not find a source.

I think what many people in the thread should be calling for is for the program to be discontinued early and for the normal cash shop to be rolled out early in its place. I am not certain if I agree with that, but it would be the more reasonable ask. Especially if/when they have the website ready to handle a larger cash shop.

It may also be possible somewhere that they publically stated that the program would last until launch. If that is the case, then I would not expect/want them to change anything until launch.

Happymeal2415

Can we all just realize that completionism stems from someone whos committed to an MMO that has stopped being challenging in any facet of the game. Therefore making someone whos still committed to said game feel the need to make a higher goal by completing everything. A new game should never have "completion" on its mind or its dead before releasing. Completion isnt end game... its a games end.

Vhaeyne

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

Can we all just realize that completionism stems from someone whos committed to an MMO that has stopped being challenging in any facet of the game. Therefore making someone whos still committed to said game feel the need to make a higher goal by completing everything. A new game should never have "completion" on its mind or its dead before releasing. Completion isnt end game... its a games end.

I think I agree with the general idea of your post as it applies to MMORPGs. When people run out of content, they start collecting mounts, pets, achievements and items to have something to do until the next patch. I would call it "the post content phase". Until now, you would normally see Asmongold in this phase. Instead of committing to mythic raids or other challenges, he instead farms mounts and items between patches to have something to do in game.

I don't know that a phase like that will ever happen to people in Ashes. The world will constantly be a competitive PvP sandbox at end-game. That phase never applied to games like Lineage 2 or Eve online. I have said before, it's going to be hard to collect many things when it is a struggle to get anything.

Roko

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Kionashi wrote: »

I can understand that, and the solution would be to stop putting exclusive cosmetics from now on...even if is too late to bring older cosmetics back form the exlcusivity hell we can stop any more cosmetics from becoming unaccessible to 95% of the proyected playerbase...

I explained earlier in the thread that is what would need to happen.

It is important to keep in mind that the monthly supporter packages are marketed as "Pre-order packs". It stands to reason that once the game goes live, they would discontinue the program. I think they have even explained that before, but I could not find a source.

I think what many people in the thread should be calling for is for the program to be discontinued early and for the normal cash shop to be rolled out early in its place. I am not certain if I agree with that, but it would be the more reasonable ask. Especially if/when they have the website ready to handle a larger cash shop.

It may also be possible somewhere that they publically stated that the program would last until launch. If that is the case, then I would not expect/want them to change anything until launch.

What I think would be better is to keep the preorder packs as is. Just stop rotating the cosmetics. Pick a cosmetic set and leave the preorder packs static.

Cypher

Kionashi wrote: »

I don't even care for getting super nice cosmetics via achievements, I just want to be able to buy them when when the game releases....

I mean...having a few exclusive skins to reward people who bought in early is fine... but how many skins are we going to make exclusive?...there are already tons of skins that are beyond our reach and the game is still far from release... we will see 24 more sets going exclusive before the game is even out?

also my main issue is how fast are we burning popular themes each month....by example the frost armor...that's a cool looking armor for people who want to live in icy areas, but now is gone forever...we will ever get another frozen armor? And the cool giant Witch hat... I loved the design and that's a stable in wizzard fashion...but again is gone forever...since material swaps aren't valid that means we wont ever get to buy a Wizzard hat? what about that cool skeleton mask Steven showcased in an early video?...we will ever be able to buy an skeleton mask to fashion our necromancer?

I mean give early backers exclusive colors, or a special discount in those items....but don't lock cool concepts away for people who want to invest in the game closer to release...

Not enough people are talking about this. I’ve been a backer since Kickstarter and I’ve bought many items since then, and yet I agree with this and have posed these same points multiple times in the past but to no avail.

The frost armor example you gave was a great one. I like the idea of exclusive *variants* but locking several dozen (by release it will be what 60+ exclusive sets?) *entire concepts* behind this permanently exclusive wall is a terrible idea and will limit the options they have after launch. Like what is intrepid going to do? Are they going to release an entirely *different* frost armor or just never put another frost themed armor in the game?

EDIT: and by the way, since I know some people are going to foolishly assume I’m coming from a place of “I want 100% of everything in the game”, that’s not true at all. I’ve purposely skipped cosmetics I didn’t like. I also don’t plan to try getting everything in the full release. I just can’t get behind the idea of burning the candle at both ends with this monthly exclusive x60+ months idea unless intrepid is willing to use themes again but with entirely different and new sets that they’ve otherwise burned in these exclusive sets.

Azherae

Cypher wrote: »

Kionashi wrote: »

I don't even care for getting super nice cosmetics via achievements, I just want to be able to buy them when when the game releases....

I mean...having a few exclusive skins to reward people who bought in early is fine... but how many skins are we going to make exclusive?...there are already tons of skins that are beyond our reach and the game is still far from release... we will see 24 more sets going exclusive before the game is even out?

also my main issue is how fast are we burning popular themes each month....by example the frost armor...that's a cool looking armor for people who want to live in icy areas, but now is gone forever...we will ever get another frozen armor? And the cool giant Witch hat... I loved the design and that's a stable in wizzard fashion...but again is gone forever...since material swaps aren't valid that means we wont ever get to buy a Wizzard hat? what about that cool skeleton mask Steven showcased in an early video?...we will ever be able to buy an skeleton mask to fashion our necromancer?

I mean give early backers exclusive colors, or a special discount in those items....but don't lock cool concepts away for people who want to invest in the game closer to release...

Not enough people are talking about this. I’ve been a backer since Kickstarter and I’ve bought many items since then, and yet I agree with this and have posed these same points multiple times in the past but to no avail.

The frost armor example you gave was a great one. I like the idea of exclusive *variants* but locking several dozen (by release it will be what 60+ exclusive sets?) *entire concepts* behind this permanently exclusive wall is a terrible idea and will limit the options they have after launch. Like what is intrepid going to do? Are they going to release an entirely *different* frost armor or just never put another frost themed armor in the game?

I feel like, at this point, they should do something slightly different.

Exclusivity is great, but for specific ones, they should probably just 'rotate them back in' alongside new ones, starting after Alpha-One, until Beta probably.

If they kept to the same original release timing, it might be good too. You would 'know' when the Sep 2018 was coming back (for example Sep 2018 returns alongside new Sep 2020 and you have to pick one).

But at the end of the day, promises are promises, and it's not like they can get 'unanimous consent from everyone who bought it thinking they would get exclusives'.

Cypher

I agree @Azherae that sounds like a fine idea if they started it right away and didn’t let any more themes get essentially burned forever

Azherae

Cypher wrote: »

I agree @Azherae that sounds like a fine idea if they started it right away and didn’t let any more themes get essentially burned forever

I'm moreso just counting on them to live up to their promise that ingame ones will be just as good or better, and I believe they can do this enough that I also don't understand why people generally care about these cosmetics.

It's either "I'm a collector" or "this thematic is really great for me" or 'I want to be exclusive'.

Unfortunately I have no sympathy for collectors. Nothing against them, just can't feel it. When you know the neurological reasons why collectors feel good about collecting things, you either ;know that the true ones aren't upset' or at least 'know that the upset ones have something akin to a problem'.

I feel sorry for the thematic people but if the game has a lot of 'slightly less flashy or different colored' duplicates, meh. I get 'But I wanted the glow on mine to be green!' but that's basically 'luck' so...

The 'I want an exclusive thing' crowd are the only ones who 'technically gave money for something that is tangible to them', and therefore the 'protected class' in this scenario, so things stand as they are.

HumblePuffin

They’ve stated that the sets are all modular, so you will see pieces of sets show up on in game sets in some way.

I’m sure there will be another frost armor in game just with different pieces. I’m sure you’ll see that helmet or shoulders on some other set, maybe with a different effect, maybe with no effect.

None of the purchasable sets include the weapons shown but I’m sure you’ll see the base models in game for them.

Dygz

I dunno. Depends on how the game is designed.
I don't consider New World to be an MMORPG, but...
Their Achievement system is ubiquitous, starting from Level 1, and highly addictive.
Seems like every 15 or 20 minutes, I'm earning some Achievement that I didn't even know I was working on.
I hooked 10 Fish. I let 10 Fish get away. I caught 50 Fish.
And every time I earn an Achievement, I see a notification for the next two and realize I only have to Mine 10 more Iron or complete 2 more quests to earn them. So, I play just a little bit longer.

I think the New World rewards are Titles. Lots of silly titles.
I'm not using a title as of Level 24, but the rewards aren't what's motivating me. What's motivating me is that they're for stuff I'm already doing, so it doesn't hurt anything for me to do a little bit more to top off the Achievement.
Achievers don't need a lot of incentive to collect Achievements.
Just as completists don't need a lot of incentive to complete stuff.

I'm already collecting mounts and pets and freeholds and caravans - because they are cool.
And they help with RP. Collecting stuff is not just because of reaching endgame.

Completists are gonna want to complete stuff.
But, in Ashes, we can't do everything and we can't collect everything and we can't complete everything.
We also can't only PvP 24/7 or only PvE 24/7.
We also can't fast travel everywhere anytime we want to.

Games tend to have some restrictions.

Noaani

Cypher wrote: »

Kionashi wrote: »

I don't even care for getting super nice cosmetics via achievements, I just want to be able to buy them when when the game releases....

I mean...having a few exclusive skins to reward people who bought in early is fine... but how many skins are we going to make exclusive?...there are already tons of skins that are beyond our reach and the game is still far from release... we will see 24 more sets going exclusive before the game is even out?

also my main issue is how fast are we burning popular themes each month....by example the frost armor...that's a cool looking armor for people who want to live in icy areas, but now is gone forever...we will ever get another frozen armor? And the cool giant Witch hat... I loved the design and that's a stable in wizzard fashion...but again is gone forever...since material swaps aren't valid that means we wont ever get to buy a Wizzard hat? what about that cool skeleton mask Steven showcased in an early video?...we will ever be able to buy an skeleton mask to fashion our necromancer?

I mean give early backers exclusive colors, or a special discount in those items....but don't lock cool concepts away for people who want to invest in the game closer to release...

Not enough people are talking about this. I’ve been a backer since Kickstarter and I’ve bought many items since then, and yet I agree with this and have posed these same points multiple times in the past but to no avail.

@cypher86
@Kionashi

As I said earlier in this thread

Noaani wrote: »

There will be other wizard hats, and other frozen armor - just not the exact ones that have already been offered.

They are not making the art pieces available again, that means nothing for the concept of the individual pieces.

The individual items are exclusive here, not the entire contept behind them.

There will be other wizards hats made for the game. The one they have released will never be offered again, but that doesnt mean they cant make other wizards hats.

Same with frozen armor, same with every other item.

Cypher

@Noaani Unless you have an official quote stating that, I won't take your word for it, I apologize. All I've heard them say is these items will never be available again in any capacity but you will see the items on some NPCs or out in the wild that you can't acquire yourself though. "Wizard hat" I feel might be too broad of an example you're trying to use. If you mean a merlin hat, that's different. But anyways, not trying to split hairs. I think they "could" release a different frost themed armor set, but I somehow doubt they would because I'm sure somehow some people would feel jilted by that and they might not risk it. Worse than that, as far as I can tell, they'll never release a swiftclaw (raptor) mount again. Unless what they mean is you can't get a skin for a swiftclaw but you can definitely still tame them and breed them, okay fine fair enough. I need quotes to confirm.

Also, you tagged the wrong Cypher. Not a big deal just letting you know.

HumblePuffin

“From an armor standpoint, we cut armor sets up into many different pieces. These pieces can sometimes be used as part of other sets, that may include helmets, wrists, gloves etc. So while you will not see an achievable white version of the corvid castigator set in the game for example, you may see its shoulder piece used in another set, or its leggings, or wrist piece used in another set (not every piece as to form the whole set, but perhaps a couple pieces). This would be difficult to notice at first glance, due to the material, texture and color variation used, but this modular approach to content creation makes achieving a wide variety of looks achievable for an MMORPG of our size.”[18] – Steven Sharif

Cypher

My hero, the HumblePuffin

Noaani

Cypher wrote: »

@Noaani Unless you have an official quote stating that, I won't take your word for it, I apologize.

On top of the post above, Steven had clarified that there will be other, similar items to those that have been released. While we wont get another raptor exactly the same as the one that has been sold, we may well end up with a raptor as a pet option to raise ourself, or as an option in the store in the future.

Steven specifically said that while they wont guarantee any specific item, they have not ruled out creating items similar to any already released.

And no, I do not have a quote, because do your own research.

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