Race Representation in a Node's Architecture

Like in any other MMO, some races will be more popular than others. In AoC this will have great repercussions because the number of players of a certain race that are active in a node's zone of influence, will determine that node's architectural style. There are also talks from Intrepid that a node of a certain race will give some kind of benefits to players of that same race. Regardless, the issue remains that certain races will be underrepresented and maybe even completely nonexistent. We might never see a Metropolis of some races.

A solution I would like to suggest to this issue would be to give races a bonus to their representation in a node’s architectural style decision based on the region/biome the node is in.

We know that each race has its starting zone and there are certain biomes that “belong” to certain races. So for example let’s say that we have 40 Dunir dwarves working on a node in their foothills in the northwest and 50 Ren’kai orcs are also working on that node, but the Dunir dwarves get a 50% bonus to their racial representation in that region because those foothills “belong” to their race. The 40 Dunir dwarves would now count as 60 Dunir dwarves and they would win the architectural representation over the 50 Ren’kai orcs.

The numbers would obviously need to be tested.

What are your thoughts on this topic or the proposed solution above?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

The level of concern on this topic seems unreasonable to me, so I'll ask a 3rd time - what's the big deal?

I wanna live in a Vek node.

Dygz

VmanGman wrote: »

Hahaha your solution to the system is for people to reroll on a new server so that they can beat the odds?? Your solution is literally for people to quit their character and progress just to address an issue that could be solved with slightly better game design. This is insane... This is some next level logic. I can't continue trying to have a reasonable conversation with you because you're clearly not trying to be reasonable.

Don't even have to reroll.
People can figure all that out before creating their first character.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

I wanna live in a Vek node.

Right, well you may or may not. What's the concern if you're unable to?

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I wanna live in a Vek node.

Right, well you may or may not. What's the concern if you're unable to?

I wanna live in a Vek node and support that Vek node to level up into a higher level Vek node, so I want the option to support its Vek-ness instead of bringing in my Empyrean-ness.

I'm not here to argue anything on the level of the OP, actually. I see an easy solution to something so I want it.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

I wanna live in a Vek node and support that Vek node to level up into a higher level Vek node, so I want the option to support its Vek-ness instead of bringing in my Empyrean-ness.

I'm not here to argue anything on the level of the OP, actually. I see an easy solution to something so I want it.

You have that option. You just need to band together with other Veks. Just know it’s going to be harder to accomplish with less popular races. But (AFAIK) there is no substantive benefit to be of the race that the node is associated with (e.g. a human in a human node).

So… what’s the problem?

Dygz

Just trying to make sure there aren't so many other Empyrean around that the Node turns Empyrean instead of staying Vek.

SongRune

CROW3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I wanna live in a Vek node and support that Vek node to level up into a higher level Vek node, so I want the option to support its Vek-ness instead of bringing in my Empyrean-ness.

I'm not here to argue anything on the level of the OP, actually. I see an easy solution to something so I want it.

You have that option. You just need to band together with other Veks. Just know it’s going to be harder to accomplish with less popular races. But (AFAIK) there is no substantive benefit to be of the race that the node is associated with (e.g. a human in a human node).

So… what’s the problem?

She won't be the only one. Vek architecture is cool, but not everyone's gonna want to play Vek. Especially with a rare type like Vek, she won't be the only one who moves in for the aesthetic.

With just enough Vek to tip the scale, you don't need many Empyrians to tip it back.

CROW3

If this is a top priority for you then 1) play the most popular race, or 2) start a guild to band together before launch with this goal in mind, and/or 3) convince others to play the race you want to play. The structure of the system rewards that level of effort, but it's still not going to substantively impact your character. What I'm not hearing is a compelling reason why the system (as described so far - and not necessarily set in stone) needs to be adjusted to account for the request...

I feel like I'm missing something, so open to someone opening my eyes here.

Dygz

It's a different issue than the OP.
Azherae wants to be an Empyrean in a Vek Node and make sure that their Empyrean-ness does not tip the node over to Empyrean influence when it pops to the next stage.

Your list of suggestions works for the OP, but not for Azherae's concern.
Those suggestions would cause precisely what Azherae doesn't want to happen.

Dolyem

Slightly off topic, I am totally considering starting an all human guild where we all roleplay as astartes from WH40K and K.O.S. anything that isn't a human while spamming "DIE XENOS" in chat. And any nodes that arent human will be "exterminatus"

CROW3

Dygz wrote: »

It's a different issue than the OP.
Azherae wants to be an Empyrean in a Vek Node and make sure that their Empyrean-ness does not tip the node over to Empyrean influence when it pops to the next stage.

Oh, I missed that Azherae wanted to be Emperian. I'm not sure whether it's Steven's intent or I'm projecting, but the system makes sense as it stands, especially taking @Azherae's want into account. If a node's progression is advanced by mainly Emperians -it would reflect their cultural influence. For better or worse this is art reflecting reality. There is a sad, but inevitable poetry in Azherae's scenario not being met. A Vek node that is advanced by a mainly Emperian population will become Emperian.

But again... nothing substantive is gained or lost here. Or am I wrong?

Dolyem

Dygz wrote: »

It's a different issue than the OP.
Azherae wants to be an Empyrean in a Vek Node and make sure that their Empyrean-ness does not tip the node over to Empyrean influence when it pops to the next stage.

Your list of suggestions works for the OP, but not for Azherae's concern.
Those suggestions would cause precisely what Azherae doesn't want to happen.

Honestly I think its good to keep it as is, simply because it adds weight to your choice of character. Otherwise everyone will automatically pick the most meta race for whatever class they plan on being based on racial traits (if there are any) and still have no consequence as far as how it affects the world. If people want to see other races dominating a node, then they have to play as said race, promoting more playthroughs on different characters, and a larger variety of races being played

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

It's a different issue than the OP.
Azherae wants to be an Empyrean in a Vek Node and make sure that their Empyrean-ness does not tip the node over to Empyrean influence when it pops to the next stage.

Oh, I missed that Azherae wanted to be Emperian. I'm not sure whether it's Steven's intent or I'm projecting, but the system makes sense as it stands, especially taking @Azherae's want into account. If a node's progression is advanced by mainly Emperians -it would reflect their cultural influence. For better or worse this is art reflecting reality. There is a sad, but inevitable poetry in Azherae's scenario not being met. A Vek node that is advanced by a mainly Emperian population will become Emperian.

But again... nothing substantive is gained or lost here. Or am I wrong?

So it is. I have learned in life that there is no real way to directly get others to understand or accept what one finds important.

I can only hope that Steven, having been in the same sort of position relative to MMOs as a whole, can sympathize in a way that you (maybe?) can't, regarding the value of experiences, and add something if it isn't too difficult.

I don't know how they intend to handle Tulnar, but if they don't get influence on surface nodes, the code would already be there mostly.

CROW3

Azherae wrote: »

I can only hope that Steven, having been in the same sort of position relative to MMOs as a whole, can sympathize in a way that you (maybe?) can't, regarding the value of experiences, and add something if it isn't too difficult.

I think I can sympathize... correct me if I'm wrong here, but your scenario is kind of a Dances with Wolves story. A member of a colonizing force lives with the Vek, a culture being colonized, and wishes the Vek to remain as Vek as long as possible. Is that approximately right?

This could go in a different direction than having the system compensate for the ven percentages. What if this actually starts cultural wars around certain nodes that want to stay a particular culture? It's not just organizing Veks on a server to advance a node, it's also organizing them to fight off players from other cultures that may impact the look and feel of the node. Hm... that would be an interesting node race considering the vassal system.

Yeah... I'm curious now whether this is one of the types of player v. player conflicts Steven actually wants to occur in Verra?

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Azherae wrote: »

I can only hope that Steven, having been in the same sort of position relative to MMOs as a whole, can sympathize in a way that you (maybe?) can't, regarding the value of experiences, and add something if it isn't too difficult.

I think I can sympathize... correct me if I'm wrong here, but your scenario is kind of a Dances with Wolves story. A member of a colonizing force lives with the Vek, a culture being colonized, and wishes the Vek to remain as Vek as long as possible. Is that approximately right?

This could go in a different direction that having the system compensate for the ven percentages. What if this actually starts cultural wars around certain nodes that want to stay a particular culture? It's not just organizing Veks on a server to advance a node, it's also organizing them to fight off players from other cultures that may impact the look and feel of the node. Hm... that would be an interesting node race considering the vassal system.

Yeah... I'm curious now whether this is one of the types of player v. player conflicts Steven actually wants to occur in Verra?

Which is precisely the worst part. It may make for 'good RP', but 'having the Vek hate the outsider' even when the outsider in question doesn't even want to have that effect, just wants to live among them, is... not great.

That sort of conflict is interesting, but not to me, the person who 'wants to take the Vek side without having to be one'. It does sorta solve the problem though. Nothing specifically 'prevents me from driving off other Empyreans'.

There's only one problem left there.

Village of equal numbers Empyrean and Vek. The Vek all like their culture. The Empyreans all like the Vek culture. The Empyreans... have to fight amongst themselves, vote someone out, etc, until there are 'too few of them for the Vek to be supplanted'? Ok... but...

I wanted to help.

The Village could maybe reach Town if they could all work together, but they 'can't', in that case.

It's an unlikely situation, given the number of players it takes to raise a Node, probably, but I can say that it basically 'forces me to detach from either the Node style I like, or from participating in the Node progression system in the way I would enjoy', and that seems to be an actual gameplay loss, from my side. I suppose it isn't strictly speaking 'a loss that is different from any other playstyle that the Node system doesn't support', it just... doesn't seem necessary to prevent it from supporting that one.

CROW3

Well, I think we're at least hearing each other now...

My first thought would be relatively populist, allow the mayor to conduct a vote that could conditionally override the cultural designation of the node for when it advances. This would give conscious agency to players (instead of passive agency just by being of a certain culture). Of course, there's flaws - especially if you have a despotic mayor... but it's not like I've thought deeply on this.

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Well, I think we're at least hearing each other now...

My first thought would be relatively populist, allow the mayor to conduct a vote that could conditionally override the cultural designation of the node for when it advances. This would give conscious agency to players (instead of passive agency just by being of a certain culture). Of course, there's flaws - especially if you have a despotic mayor... but it's not like I've thought deeply on this.

I don't really have an answer beyond the one I offered either, and I don't think there's any flawless ones. The issue with the vote is moreso logistics, it depends on who is able to log in, to vote, and I think that 'contribution' doesn't require 'citizenship', so this might go against the overall spirit of the node system.

I don't actually want to 'definitively solve this', I'd be fine with 'being the equivalent of a Tulnar's influence type' (again, assuming that they don't really have too much of one when it comes to surface nodes) and letting things go however they go. That would also keep the other type of potential effect you're talking about, with the conflicts, possible betrayals, and all that.

VmanGman

Dygz wrote: »

VmanGman wrote: »

Hahaha your solution to the system is for people to reroll on a new server so that they can beat the odds?? Your solution is literally for people to quit their character and progress just to address an issue that could be solved with slightly better game design. This is insane... This is some next level logic. I can't continue trying to have a reasonable conversation with you because you're clearly not trying to be reasonable.

Don't even have to reroll.
People can figure all that out before creating their first character.

Because part of playing a MMO is to scour Discord and the forums to find groups of people that can help you overcome the game's design flaw? What happened to just playing the game. You know that the vast majority of players don't interact with forums and outside community building tools, right? Especially not before they get in game. Your solution is so abstract and so far removed from what the experience is supposed to be like and what the experience is actually like for the vast majority of players.

Wyborn

I just hope we get enough dwarves together to have a nice fortress tucked away in the mountains where i can have my humble abode and toll away on me forge.

CROW3

Wyborn wrote: »

I just hope we get enough dwarves together to have a nice fortress tucked away in the mountains where i can have my humble abode and toll away on me forge.

I’ll bring the beer!

Child Item