The problem with having “Tank” as a class name

Hello all, I believe this discussion may have come up before, but I really would like Steven and friends to reconsider the name “Tank”. Overall, they have done a good job at naming the other classes and subclasses, but they ruin the immersion of the game by using the class name “tank”. Tank was a code name given to military vehicles being created in 1915. It has been a slang term for classes and archetypes in many video games given to the role that is used to absorb/mitigate or “tank” damage. Having a class name feels very uncharacteristic compared to the other class names. It’s like naming your cat “Cat”. It’s cute and punny, but is that what they really want for their game? What class do you play? Oh, I play a tank! Yea, but like what class? TANK!! *insert meme of a tank with a face on it... drooling*

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Dygz

Aerlana wrote: »

This is my problem with the archetype "tank" getting the same word as the role "tank"

because for some content, i want to be to easily call for a "tank" but not limited to the 8 tank classes, but also some like ... dreadnought if it shows to be a decent tank (heavy fighter with tank augments. i wouldnt be surprise to be more than enough for many content

But...
That the way Ashes is designed is:
There is only one Primary Archetype that officially has the primary role of tank and that is Tank.
Even if Tank is relabeled something else, there will only be one Primary Archetype that officially has the primary role of tank.
A Fighter with Tank augments will not replace the need for a Primary Archetype Tank in an 8-person group.
Also a Fighter with Cleric augments will not replace the need for a Primary Archetype Cleric in an 8-person group.
Also a Bard with Mage augments will not replace the need for a Primary Archetype Mage in an 8-person group.
A Fighter with Tank augments will be able to off-tank.
If you want a main tank, you should ask for a Primary Archetype Tank. And...to do that, just ask for a Tank.

Aerlana wrote: »

AND i speak while i want only ONE character to do the "tank role" so don't come again with "call offtank to have dreadnought". . .

If that's what you want, you are stuck with Primary Archetype Tank.
That is the only Primary Archetype that officially has the primary role of tank.
The primary role of a Primary Archetype Fighter is damage. That includes Dreadnought.
If you want only ONE character to be a main tank, you should ask for a Tank and if a Dreadnought appears, you should not expect a Dreadnought to be a viable main tank because Fighters are not designed/balanced to be main tanks - even if they have Tank augments.
Similarly, if you ask for a Cleric and a Highsword appears, you should not expect a Highsword to be a viable main Cleric.
If you ask for a Summoner and a Bladecaller appears, you should not expect a Bladecaller to be a viable main Summoner.

There will be no confusion about what you're asking for because combat is balanced around having one of each Primary Archetype in an 8-person group. So ask for the Primary Archetype you seek. There's no point in asking for "ranged dps" or "ranged damage" if what you want is a Mage.
If you want a Mage, ask for a Mage. No one should be thinking you're asking for a Summoner or a Spellsword.
If you want a Fighter, ask for a Fighter. No one should be thinking you're asking for a Rogue or a Duelist.
If you want a Tank, ask for a Tank. No one should be thinking you are asking for a Fighter or a Dreadnought.

Aerlana

Dygz wrote: »

If that's what you want, you are stuck with Primary Archetype Tank.

so you think that even if you go to content that needs only 4 or 5 man, you will specifically need a "tank primary" ?

Did you ever play any other mmorpg ?

You will need a tank more or less depending on what's happening in the environment. Certainly in dungeons you will need a tank.

Here tank refers to the primary archetype because i took this from the archetype page.

Although traditional roles are present, players should not feel branded by their primary archetype.[2][4]
Skill augments available through the class system allow characters to be personalized outside of their primary role.[2][4][5]

this will be my last post to try to explain you i spoke about "not top end content" . . .
even the wiki says the "tank archetype" is not needed 100% of time. most of time but not all time.

And won't list all common situation in mmorpg where DPS class, designed in DPS way can tank some content because those content are easy enough to have a DPS class doing tank work.

Dygz

Ashes isn't any other MMORPG.
I haven't said anything about "top end content".
If you want to try to do content with 4 or 5 people without a (primary role) tank, you can try to do so.
But, that is like asking for a (primary role) support and instead accepting 4 people with primary role damage.
You could ask for a Mage and accept a Bard or Cleric, sure.
You could try to have a Bard main tank, if you want to.

Fighter is not the only Primary Archetype that can fight.
Mage is not the only Primary Archetype that can use magic.
Ranger is not the only Primary Archetype that can do ranged damage.
Summoner is, technically, not the only Primary Archetype that can summon.
And, yes, Tank is not the only Primary Archetype that can tank.

Noaani

Aerlana wrote: »

Did you ever play any other mmorpg ?

Dygz' favorite MMO is Wizard101 - a game literally made for children.

You'll have to excuse the absolute nonsense he spews on occasion, as he thinks he knows what he is talking about, despite, well, playing Wizard101.

Shoximity

daveywavey

Click on your name at the top of the screen to enter your Profile.

Click on the little profile arrow next to your icon, and select "Preferences".

On the right-hand side, go to "Ignore List".

In the "Ignore Someone" text box, type "Dygz".

Problem solved. You'll only ever have to see their posts when somebody else Quotes them.

AlwaysAFK

I liked Sentinel as a stand in name from above. Looking at the class chart, it seems like it would line up with each class combo just as well as before, except it has a bit more flavor to it.

Markune

I think it's important to bear in mind that regardless of what the game designates you at the character screen players in the game will almost always in all cases revert to calling you by one of the holy trinity (Heals/DPS/Tank). As far as this character screen selection it's an Alpha test. Patience is key. This will sort itself out.
If that doesn't suit you I'm sure there will be a Roleplaying server you can call home. It's what they are for.

Teyloune

Alternative name for the Tank Archetype: Vanguard, Stalwart.

Or we could change the Tank Archetype into Sentinel, and then we can give the Ranger + Tank a name like Skirmisher for example.

ViBunja

Sentinel is good.

CROW3

Nine months away from AoC boards and this topic is still alive. Not sure if it’s comforting or shocking. 😉

Tank still works for me.

JustVine

CROW3 wrote: »

Nine months away from AoC boards and this topic is still alive. Not sure if it’s comforting or shocking. 😉

Tank still works for me.

Every forum has its local 'hill to die on' I suppose.

daveywavey

CROW3 wrote: »

Nine months away from AoC boards and this topic is still alive. Not sure if it’s comforting or shocking. 😉

Tank still works for me.

Nice to see you back!

Nerror

Lol holy crap this thread won't die.

I've stayed away hoping it would die, but since it's immortal, I'll just throw in my two cents and become immortal myself.

We in fact don't have a class called Tank. The title and the premise is factually wrong. We have an archetype called Tank. So what is an archetype? Well, it's defined as

a very typical example of a certain person or thing

An Archetype is not a Class. When people start at level 1, they don't have a class yet.

Since this is an MMORPG, they went with some known MMORPG names for archetypes, because that is what makes the most sense. All that etymology nonsense is pointless to discuss. What matters is that the archetypes are well known in the MMORPG/gaming community, so most people know what to expect.

Yes, some of the archetype names coincide with class names of other games. That is confusing to some. Hence this thread.

Edit: To clarify, I understand people not liking the archetype name. It's not exactly my preferred name either.

ViBunja

Sentinel for Archetype is better. Or maybe no name, but symbols instead. A shield for this one

Noaani

ViBunja wrote: »

Sentinel for Archetype is better. Or maybe no name, but symbols instead. A shield for this one

I vote no name, because then we will all just call them tanks.

I mean, if the archetypes were given a symbol instead of a name, the names they have are the names players would use.

Shoximity

Nerror wrote: »

Lol holy crap this thread won't die.

I've stayed away hoping it would die, but since it's immortal, I'll just throw in my two cents and become immortal myself.

We in fact don't have a class called Tank. The title and the premise is factually wrong. We have an archetype called Tank. So what is an archetype? Well, it's defined as

a very typical example of a certain person or thing

An Archetype is not a Class. When people start at level 1, they don't have a class yet.

Since this is an MMORPG, they went with some known MMORPG names for archetypes, because that is what makes the most sense. All that etymology nonsense is pointless to discuss. What matters is that the archetypes are well known in the MMORPG/gaming community, so most people know what to expect.

Yes, some of the archetype names coincide with class names of other games. That is confusing to some. Hence this thread.

Edit: To clarify, I understand people not liking the archetype name. It's not exactly my preferred name either.

Yea, you don't have a "class" yet, but you have to be classified as something levels 1-25. You aren't nothing you are identified as a tank because that is your archetype. This is just semantics. If you are level 12 and someone asked you what class are you playing in AoC. Are you really going to say, "It's an Archetype not a class, nerd". I hope not, because it would make more sense to just say "I play a tank". Just would be cooler to say, "I play a warrior", or "I play a sentinel". Because of reasons stated throughout the entire thread, tank is lame and ruins the immersion.

TeamVASH

I think tank is perfectly fine and I have no problem with it whatsoever.

Sathrago

Ah, seeing this thread get necro'ed is like meeting an old friend. Tank4ever.

Vhaeyne

Sathrago wrote: »

Ah, seeing this thread get necro'ed is like meeting an old friend. Tank4ever.

You never know what you have until you noticed it missing.
I really tank this thread for granted.

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