What people miss understand about the Trinity.

People think of the Trinity and they think of a Triangle with the Tank basically being the point. Everyone has one job in their minds which is partly true. But that’s not the design. The design should be more a circle or as everyone playing a supporting role. The tank makes pulls and builds agro so mobs don’t attack the other group members, the healer supports the tank so he doesn’t die, the tank supports DPS by keeping agro so they can kill the mobs and DPS supports the tank and healers by making sure the excess mobs are not beating on them killing them.
So the Trinity is actually a design that needs CC to be used to its fullest extent. CC also makes the DPS job a lot more useful than just who does the most DPS. CC helps keep that random chance somethings breaks away and goes to kill the healer or tank. This is also why tanks had a hard time with holding more than 3 mobs. Everyone could handle 2 but 3 and 4 was pushing the ability to keep agro on them.

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Azherae

Rainwolffield wrote: »

People think of the Trinity and they think of a Triangle with the Tank basically being the point. Everyone has one job in their minds which is partly true. But that’s not the design. The design should be more a circle or as everyone playing a supporting role. The tank makes pulls and builds agro so mobs don’t attack the other group members, the healer supports the tank so he doesn’t die, the tank supports DPS by keeping agro so they can kill the mobs and DPS supports the tank and healers by making sure the excess mobs are not beating on them killing them.
So the Trinity is actually a design that needs CC to be used to its fullest extent. CC also makes the DPS job a lot more useful than just who does the most DPS. CC helps keep that random chance somethings breaks away and goes to kill the healer or tank. This is also why tanks had a hard time with holding more than 3 mobs. Everyone could handle 2 but 3 and 4 was pushing the ability to keep agro on them.

Disagree. I don't see what CC has to do with any of this, probably because I don't play games in which the Tank is required to hold 4 mobs at once and doesn't just do so by 'staying ahead of the healer's hate line and then rotating the enemy targeted'.

What game is this where you can't do this without CC? I totally admit I don't play any of the mainstream ones anymore so I'm surely out of practice for what is expected of Tanks.

Leth

The tank is the point because it is easier for the person who is pulling the mobs, to also be the leader of the group and the person setting the pace.

Tanking thus inherently has additional responsibilities and skill requirements to be very successful.

Not always the case obviously, but tends to be the situation in my experience.

Sathrago

Eh, honestly I'm ok with games like FF14 where tanks just have aggro as long as they push their buttons with tank stance on. I shouldn't be punished as a dps for doing too well nor should a healer be punished for being good at healing. If you want something for tanks to focus on in a pve setting it should be proper use of defensive cooldowns, preforming mechanics correctly, and doing as much damage as they can while doing so for a faster boss kill.

Tanks do not "need" cc, As CC is useless against bosses. What they need is a good survival toolkit. That is what a tank is, someone who is hard to kill while making sure the enemy is attempting to kill them the most.
If you want Tanks to do something in pvp, give them tools that high incentivize attacking or disabling them. Like a shield wall ability that reduces damage of allies behind the tank, broken if the tank is CCed or preforms another action.

We do not need tanks flopping around with all the best CCs in the game to get them to be viable for pvp.

Edit: I don't know why I focused so hard on tanks in particular, but I feel this needed saying anyway. I understand that the scope was the whole trinity having cc and not just tanks. Games just tend to slap most of the CC onto tanks to try and make them useful in pvp and it turns into a crapfest of CC chains that really makes mass pvp lame.

Dygz

If the trinity is a triangle - each class in the trinity is a point.
You might mean Tank is at the top, but I have never imagined the trinity to be a triangle with a top.

Fullest extent is uber efficient elitist thinking.
I don't know why CC would have to be at the fullest extent, but Heals would not have to be at the fullest extent or DPS would not have to be at the fullest extent.

Truly, each role just needs to be good enough to defeat the encounter.
A team should be striving to synergize their strengths to cover any weaknesses.
Strong DPS and strong healer can compensate for a weaker Tank.
Strong DPS and strong Tank can compensate for a weaker healer.

Evasion builds for DPS and Healer could compensate for a weaker Tank.
DPS and Healer with Cleric secondaries could compensate for a weaker Tank.
Also, tactics like fighting with your back to a wall can help with "crowd control" while not relying so heavily on the Tank to CC via Active Skills.

I definitely misunderstand the point of the OP.
Everyone should try to fulfill their role. I am missing why anyone would be expecting one role to be "the top" or "the point".

wherediditrun

It's not really trinity. DPS are not necessary for the concept to work, and hence are often justified or made mandatory through limited slots or enrage mechanics. While healer and tank has a role, DPS offers stat retuning under same formula generally brining nothing to the actual gameplay.

OP has a point. I would like to see some actual roles and diversity of execution.

Percimes

wherediditrun wrote: »

It's not really trinity. DPS are not necessary for the concept to work, and hence are often justified or made mandatory through limited slots or enrage mechanics. While healer and tank has a role, DPS offers stat retuning under same formula generally brining nothing to the actual gameplay.

OP has a point. I would like to see some actual roles and diversity of execution.

Not to mention that usually the number of classes or spec allowing tanking or healing is far, far lower than the one for DPSing. If there were only 3 classes, each with one role, it would be a Trinity, but usually we have two roles only open to a selected few and an avalanche of easily replaceable options for the last role.

CROW3

I don't know if it's necessary to redefine which geometric shape is used to describe a fairly tangible concept...

Tanks hold attention and take the damage, but doesn't do much damage, and doesn't heal others effectively
Healers heal the tank, and damage dealers, but doesn't do much damage, and can't tank an entire fight effectively
Damage dealers focus on killing, they don't heal others effectively, and can't tank an entire fight effectively

Are there gray areas? Yes. That's why it's a triangle. The vertices are the extreme trinity, but you can move across the edges to find blended roles - hence hybrid classes. Generally speaking, in a game that reinforces this framework a fight will be lost without one of the legs.

Pretty straight-forward.

Dygz

Is the trinity a geometric shape at all?

CROW3

Dygz wrote: »

Is the trinity a geometric shape at all?

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