Do you think you are a part of the "Target Audience"? Why or Why not?

Core audience is closer to primary audience - which is a subset of target audience.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Is everyone wrong but you @Dygz ?

Laser eye Dygz: Yes.

Nah I mean I see what Dygz is saying, though I don't think Ashes is targeting EVERY mmo player. Does it have traditional faction/rvr pvp? No. Faction/rvr pvp players are not targeted.

But Ashes has raids. So to some extent, even if only a token gesture, it's targeting raiders. It will get some of them.

There's a lot more nuance to what yall are arguing about. Noaani would argue it's not targeting instanced competitive progression raiders. Ok maybe so. But you can divide and subdivide every category to the point where you can say ok they're not targeting this thing.

Game has fishing. Fishers are targeted. "But wait it doesn't have comprehensive fishing with baits and lures and fish that fight back in a mini game so it's not targeting me!!" Ok I guess not when you put it that way, but it's still targeting fishers in general.

I don't think its as much of a question of who they're targeting (because they're targeting alot), but more so a question of how much they're targeting each individual group.

I think you're going to be hard pressed to get Steven to blanket say "yeah were not targeting this group" because I think he thinks he's targeting many many different groups.

More than anything though, I think it's more like Nerror said, that Intrepid is going on "if you build it they will come."

This may come as a surprise to some people, but most of the debate in this thread is actually about Dygz secretly really wanting to debate the semantics of the term "target audience", but being too afraid to outright say that is what he wants to do.

CROW3

Noaani wrote: »

This may come as a surprise to some people, but most of the debate in this thread is actually about Dygz secretly really wanting to debate the semantics of the term "target audience", but being too afraid to outright say that is what he wants to do.

Heh. Or your perception that's the subtext...

Target Audience = fans of the features of the game + doesn't mind pvp mixed in with those features.

Did I nail it or am I missing something. I have to be missing something.

Vhaeyne

@Dygz

I did not start this thread to play word games. I started it to see if people think they are a part of the target audience. For the most part, that has been successful. There should not really be much debate in this thread.

I take part of the blame for participating in the argument when I should have tried to keep things on track earlier in the thread. I am not going to continue to debate the meanings of terms when I just want to know people's personal feelings when it comes to the target audience, and if they think they are a part of it.

@therestofthethread

This stuff should be entirely subjective. I don't think there are wrong answers for a question like this. We all come to different conclusions based on how information about the game is presented to us. I enjoy the response to the topic question and want to read more of them.

If you have something constructive you think may improve someone's prospective about the game, certainly offer it as a reply. Let's just not argue, please.

Noaani wrote: »

This may come as a surprise to some people, but most of the debate in this thread is actually about Dygz secretly really wanting to debate the semantics of the term "target audience", but being too afraid to outright say that is what he wants to do.

lol is Dygz being Dygz again. I haven't read every post in this thread, cant lie.

I said earlier in the thread I agree with more clarity from Intrepid. Same time I just don't understand the frenzy. One of the biggest content creators for this game recently made a video saying "We dont know the target audience!! QUICK, change dungeons from 80/20 to 20/80!!" Like what? Bro it hasn't even been put in the game and tested yet.

I'm over dramatizing it, but that was essentially what was said. The game is still years out, not quite getting the frenzy.

Okeydoke wrote: »

Target Audience = fans of the features of the game + doesn't mind pvp mixed in with those features.

Did I nail it or am I missing something. I have to be missing something.

I think you are missing something, and I think I know what it is - because it is the part that makes me unsure.

Not only do people in the target audience for this game need to specifically want some of the features the game will have, and be ok with things like PvP that will not be able to be completely un-avoided, but people will also need to be ok with the things the game won't have.

If your bright line for an MMO is that you really want black powder guns or some equivalent, Ashes isn't for you because this game won't have that.

If your bright line is that you want a well crafted, rich, deep story with quality storytelling from the game, Ashes isn't for you as the "story" of Ashes will be determined by players, not developers.

If your bright line is having a few nights a week where you and your friends can work on challenging PvE content without interference, Ashes isn't the game for you as it won't have that content type.

I'm sure most players have a thing they wish Ashes had that it isn't going to have, the question is what side of the line that thing falls on.

I think this is just a generational thing for me. I'm too boomer. If the bright line isn't there then don't play it. Or do play it, and realize it's ok. You rarely get everything you want. This is becoming a "first world problems" meme to me. I think I'm just too boomer, no offense to anyone else. It's me.

Speaking of which, while we sit here and debate video games, God bless our troops.

Okeydoke wrote: »

Target Audience = fans of the features of the game + doesn't mind pvp mixed in with those features.

Did I nail it or am I missing something. I have to be missing something.

Target audience = players/playstyles the devs are designing features, systems and mechanics for.
Who will actually enjoy those features are not necessarily the same thing.

Again, target release date is not the same thing as the actual release date.

We don't have to debate the terms - though I am telling you they are different.
Am I part of the target playerbase: Yes
Am I confident I will enjoy playing the game at launch: No
Is there contradictory messaging about who their target playerbase is: No

The actual claim is: I believe the devs are over-hyping their game and trying to attract people who will actually hate the game by sending contradictory messages about who they are designing systems for.
With no evidence whatsover that that is true.

Okeydoke wrote: »

Nah I mean I see what Dygz is saying, though I don't think Ashes is targeting EVERY mmo player. Does it have traditional faction/rvr pvp? No. Faction/rvr pvp players are not targeted.

That is a great answer. The devs say they have a role for almost every playstyle.
I don't think of Faction PvP as a playstyle. But, I'm pretty sure the devs expect such players to be content with Siege and Node Sieges. They are in the target audience.
Whether Faction/RVR PvP players believe they will enjoy the game with the features and systems the devs provide is a different question.

Okeydoke wrote: »

I said earlier in the thread I agree with more clarity from Intrepid.

What is the clarity you are seeking from Intrepid with regard to who they are targeting?
How about three questions/issues.

Dygz wrote: »

With no evidence whatsover that that is true.

The family summons is rock solid proof of this.

Intrepid; the game is for a more "core" gamer, where travel and location matter.

Some random player; I'm casual and want to be able to catch up to my friends that don't like me enough to wait for me to log in.

Intrepid; FAMILY SUMMONS!!11!1!

CROW3

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

With no evidence whatsover that that is true.

The family summons is rock solid proof of this.

Intrepid; the game is for a more "core" gamer, where travel and location matter.

Some random player; I'm casual and want to be able to catch up to my friends that don't like me enough to wait for me to log in.

Intrepid; FAMILY SUMMONS!!11!1!

To be fair, family summons isn’t a sure thing.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Family_summon

Dygz wrote: »

That is a great answer. The devs say they have a role for almost every playstyle.
I don't think of Faction PvP as a playstyle. But, I'm pretty sure the devs expect such players to be content with Siege and Node Sieges. They are in the target audience.
Whether Faction/RVR PvP players believe they will enjoy the game with the features and systems the devs provide is a different question.

The game is targeting pvp players. Faction pvp players would be a subdivision of pvp players. Point being that I made in another post, is that you can subdivide almost everything to a point of ok it's not targeting this thing we've whittled it down to. But yeah most people who prefer faction pvp won't care. Some might though.

I found out about Camelot Unchained and AOC around the same time. I was initially more hyped for Camelot Unchained because it was faction based. I like the structure faction based provides. I like that mega alliances can't steamroll servers as easily because if the devs are doing their jobs they reasonably balance the faction populations on a server. I also like AOC's style too, more dynamic, more exciting, more player choice etc. They both have pros and cons.

I'm just rambling but I pretty much agree 100% with your last 2 posts Dygz.

Dygz wrote: »

What is the clarity you are seeking from Intrepid with regard to who they are targeting?
How about three questions/issues.

I'm honestly not looking for much more clarity. I just agreed that more clarity would be good because popular opinion seems to want more clarity. So what would more clarity hurt?

The only clarity I want is Dear Steven, is there any chance that at some point you will fold and give in to the demands of whiners and completely change the vision of the game for them?

I don't even really need that clarity. I don't think he's going to do that. But that's the one clarity I'd want, is it possible that you fold Steven.

CROW3 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

With no evidence whatsover that that is true.

The family summons is rock solid proof of this.

Intrepid; the game is for a more "core" gamer, where travel and location matter.

Some random player; I'm casual and want to be able to catch up to my friends that don't like me enough to wait for me to log in.

Intrepid; FAMILY SUMMONS!!11!1!

To be fair, family summons isn’t a sure thing.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Family_summon

Indeed it isn't, which just makes it more obvious that it was pandering to a specific market - further proving that Intrepid need to put some effort in to getting the right message about the game out.