Will rogue-like evasion/dodge & stealth even be useful if you can't do raids unless you have a tank?

The tank skill is obvious, take damage. What is the rogue-like class even useful for if it can't evade those enemy attacks?
Rogue-like classes have always been nerfed, they always have to rely on all other classes to complete content. Mage-likes and priest-types too for that matter. Raid Dungeon4412 must have 23%tank - 30%dps - 16% heal to complete dungeon, the rest can be error, fail and rogue.
Will there be consideration for the dodge, stealth and misdirection component?

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Dygz

Yes.
But...test it and find out.

McShave

Don't forget that when you are doing these dungeons, there will be groups of other players that you may have to fight. Everyone will need some sort of defensive stats so that you don't get destroyed instantly.

In my imagination, since Intrepid hasn't released the rogue class yet, I think that they will be great at scouting in the dungeon looking for other parties. They can be invisible walking around the dungeon, and if they get spotted, they can maybe pop some sort of evasion/ speed boost to get out of the situation.

Also a tank/rogue can be an evasion tank, a tank that performs by dodging instead of taking the hits. Also maybe rogue/tank can be some sort of offtank, or help the tank somehow with their own evasion tanking?

Dygz

Exactly!

ptitoine

Best plan for rogue. Distract an ennemi group bring them to another enemi group so they think they are your friends team, They start killing each other while your actual group come and kill them all in the back.

Rogue Distraction 101 XD

George_Black

Ever heard of pvp?

George_Black

What exactly is your problem here?
That rogue cant tank? Nobody can tank. Only tank can tank.
Just like dps cant heal.

"...even useful..." what the f?
Because rogues cant tank does this mean that the entire playstyle, for the entite game (pvp, pve, exploring) is useless?

Do you know how group composition works? Everybody beings something to the table. Nobody can do everything.

Why am I the first one to react angrily to such a ******** post?

What are you even talking about rogues being nerfed? They are the most popular playstyle in games, strong too.

If you think that the only way to "cOmPLete COnTent" is to tank, go play a tank, because I dont think you will ever understand how to choose and play a class/playstyle.

Ye, when I think about a group of players taking on an epic dragon, I dont picture the guy at the front with full plate shinning armor and a big "f.off, not-today-son shield", I picture a guy in a hood and a dagger saying "look behind you!" to the dragon, and everybody is like "this is our chance! Slay the beast!!"

bigepeen

This must be another WoW player expecting this game to be another WoW clone.

Psomo

I believe somewhere they said there will not be 100% stealth but something like blur without nameplate above you so you can hide in bush and staff like that.

By the way what you expect rogue to do? Rogue usually in the games is one of the classes with the highest skillcaps... Very tactician class very punishing on mistakes (except wow since they have 5-6 cd's to get away like most classes) and very rewarding if you are in the correct position at the right time and play your buttons right.

Rogue needs brains usually. Sorry.

Khronus

George Black wrote: »

What exactly is your problem here?

Why am I the first one to react angrily to such a ******** post?"

It's because this type of response is completely unnecessary and brings nothing to the table. The dude asked a legit question about a game currently in development, in an attempt to learn more and you just roll your face all over your keyboard to try and what? Be tough? Be smart? Be right? This response is the opposite of all of that.

George_Black

Khronus wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

What exactly is your problem here?

Why am I the first one to react angrily to such a ******** post?"

It's because this type of response is completely unnecessary and brings nothing to the table. The dude asked a legit question about a game currently in development, in an attempt to learn more and you just roll your face all over your keyboard to try and what? Be tough? Be smart? Be right? This response is the opposite of all of that.

Hahahahahaha

George_Black

What the response brings to the table should be obvious.
Rogue has other tasks other than tanking.

SirChancelot

George Black wrote: »

What the response brings to the table should be obvious.
Rogue has other tasks other than tanking.

I don't think he wanted to make them tank, I think he was complaining about how hard it is for rogues to Solo in most games. That they often get overwhelmed or overpowered and need the support of a party to get content done. And saying that they should be able to dodge/evade to be able to get more things done by themselves all sneaky like...

George_Black

This isnt skyrim. Everybody needs a group.
Tanks need a group. Tanks cant kill things fast. It's tedious.

JustVine

George Black wrote: »

This isnt skyrim. Everybody needs a group.
Tanks need a group. Tanks cant kill things fast. It's tedious.

I think you are rushing ahead to your conclusion here. It isn't that 'rogues need to solo everything.' It's that their traditional archtypal roles trend towards more independent situations even in a group.

Think more in the realm of sneaking behind enemy lines in siege, or distracting a team in Caravan to set up an ambush, or even checking up ahead in dungeons to name sure your group knows if there are players or tougher monsters up ahead. Rogues in roleplay games are almost always well suited as scouts, ambushers, thieves and infiltrators. All four of those function best with the rogue having considerable independence to split from their group to assist the group in achieving larger goals. They usually achieve this by having meaningful enough evasion that they can mitigate incoming damage through proper footwork and high enough evasion to handle the rest. They also tend to have large unignorable burst damage to achieve the 'distraction' and 'unignorable threat' part.

Yes this means they are better at soloing than some other classes, yes this means they tend to be good in PvP, and yes this means they synergize well with tank abilities and should probably be able to distract an enemy (and if they don't tnk/rog and rog/tnk players are probably going to be pretty annoyed.) If you weaken these things just to 'make sure nobody gets to solo scrub!' then you weaken their value to a team. Op is just worried the same thing will happen in ashes because its what happens in many othere mmos.

George_Black

Op said "is the rogue class even useful" if you need tanks; "mages-types and priest types too".

It's simple reading followed by simple answers.
No room to show off your graduate from ettiquete school manners to somebody that has a narrow vision of content.
Call it as it is, a baseless concern, some weird percentages and a pipe dream of rogues tanking.

I dont know what you all thought you read.
Stop worrying about your feelings and stay on topic with facts. If every class can do everything and every character can craft everything there is no need for community gameplay.
Are you a rogue? Be a good rogue. Get people killed. Your guild will carry you throught "content".

bigepeen

Khronus wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

What exactly is your problem here?

Why am I the first one to react angrily to such a ******** post?"

It's because this type of response is completely unnecessary and brings nothing to the table. The dude asked a legit question about a game currently in development, in an attempt to learn more and you just roll your face all over your keyboard to try and what? Be tough? Be smart? Be right? This response is the opposite of all of that.

As George pointed out, the question is flawed. It was asked either from the narrow perspective of a WoW fanboi or troll, which suggests that raiding is the only meaningful thing to do in an MMO. Ashes is obviously not meant to be a WoW clone, and there's no point in defending such a troll post.

SirChancelot

George Black wrote: »

This isnt skyrim. Everybody needs a group.
Tanks need a group. Tanks cant kill things fast. It's tedious.

Oh I 100%agree for a dungeon.
But you're going to have solo play too. You can't ALWAYS play with someone else.

Sidenote: I'm not arguing with you or agreeing with him at all... Just think you kinda missed what he was getting at.

Honestly I didn't respond initially because I thought it was either a bad translation or a drunk post... 😂

George_Black

Steven said that once you reach a certain point if you want to get a good day of XPing you will need a group.
Ppl dont ask me for a source. Do what you will with this info (which fits into the core concepts of this mmo).

Warth

George Black wrote: »

What the response brings to the table should be obvious.
Rogue has other tasks other than tanking.

Didn't you know, that all defensive stats are a complete waste of points for anybody that isn't a tank?
Doesn't increase you DEEEPS -> doesn't matter on a Damage Dealer.

The only thing DPS need is the bare minimum of health to not get insta-one-shot by a boss. The closer you get to 0 and the harder you stop the heart of your healers the more optimal you have built your character

Dygz

George Black wrote: »

Steven said that once you reach a certain point if you want to get a good day of XPing you will need a group.
Ppl dont ask me for a source. Do what you will with this info (which fits into the core concepts of this mmo).

Yeah. I would love to see that quote.

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