Build and Spend Mechanic (Rage)

Although I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, I think everyone is going to use only mana.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mana

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

Although I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, I think everyone is going to use only mana.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Mana

That's the vibe I was getting and I hope they consider using a few different resources for the various archetypes. I'm not a fan of the, everyone is a mage, way of doing things.

If this is the case, then I would love to see a Pathfinder like Rage ability find itself in the game.

Khronus

I very much enjoyed the rage mechanic in wow and hope to see more than everyone simply having mana. Mana can be the main source of magic but I hope it works differently for each person. The same essence that conjure a fireball should not be a cost when backstabbing an enemy IMO.

How would you want it implemented @Gilikoth ? For example, let's say fighter and tank both got a "rage" resource that is built during combat or taking damage. What happens when I spec tank/mage or fighter mage? Do we add a secondary pool of mana? Does the warrior change completely to mana based combat since all abilities will be altered to exhibit a mage style influence?

@Khronus the augments definitely add a level of complexity I hadn't thought all the way through yet but if they didn't want to make another resource you could have passive archetype abilities.

The tank could have a "rage" passive where incoming and out going damage increases your mana pool, or say the rouge gets a passive where if they are flanking or behind the enemy they get the back stab passive applied to attacks. This way there isn't an entirely different resource adding an extra layer of headache to workout in the augment system.

Another option would be to add a third resource much like ESO but rather than starting with that resource full, it grows as damage is either taken or given out. Then you would have an option like in ESO to change how a core ability works. If your axe throw used to be a stamina based resource that did physical damage maybe augmenting it to become a mana based attack now does magic damage or something along those lines.

All I know is that playing the tank didn't feel that great running out of mana and needing to rely on a mage to top me off or slowly recover my mana. For me a warrior or tank or barbarian really feels the best when I can build up my resource and unleash fury at my opponents or pop a big damage mitigation ability. Also long as it has that feel, I guess I don't really care if it's call mana, essence, rage or whatever.

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

That's easy. The secondary class only augments the primary class, it doesn't even give you new skills. so no matter what you would use rage. The mage would only alter what those rage-induced fighter skills do to an extent.

McShave

Atama wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

That's easy. The secondary class only augments the primary class, it doesn't even give you new skills. so no matter what you would use rage. The mage would only alter what those rage-induced fighter skills do to an extent.

Let's say that a mage augment school is elemental damage, and then the rage class adds fire damage to their ability, does that make sense? Rage is a physical force and then a rage consuming ability does elemental (magic) effects?

McShave wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

That's easy. The secondary class only augments the primary class, it doesn't even give you new skills. so no matter what you would use rage. The mage would only alter what those rage-induced fighter skills do to an extent.

Let's say that a mage augment school is elemental damage, and then the rage class adds fire damage to their ability, does that make sense? Rage is a physical force and then a rage consuming ability does elemental (magic) effects?

Of course it makes sense. If an attack has you swing your weapon to knock a guy down, and you augment that skill with magic to set him on fire, you're still knocking him down with a weapon so it's still a physical attack. It just gets turned into magic by the character's mage knowledge.

However, if what we've seen in Alpha 1 is any indication of how the game will be at release, I don't believe there will be any class that doesn't have magic as part of it. Which is why just sticking with mana as a resource makes sense from a lore perspective. It doesn't mean that having different resources can't work, but sticking with just mana probably works better.

Atama wrote: »

However, if what we've seen in Alpha 1 is any indication of how the game will be at release, I don't believe there will be any class that doesn't have magic as part of it. Which is why just sticking with mana as a resource makes sense from a lore perspective. It doesn't mean that having different resources can't work, but sticking with just mana probably works better.

After giving it more thought I really don't care what resource they use, I just want it to feel right. Tank not being able to use tank abilities because you're OOM just feels wrong. That's why I'm thinking rage could be a passive for the parent archetype that generates mana through damage dealt and received or rather refueling the essence through battle.

Especially since I primarily have always played physical classes, except in ESO where everyone is basically some form of magic, I really want to have the option to play something that FEELS like it's a primarily a melee beat stick.

I'm with you with adding fire damage to an attack doesn't make you a mage and it could be used to alter the rage abilities. I mean fire and rage go together extremely well 🤣

What if a tank has a skill to sacrifice health to generate mana? That seems thematic and would get around the issue.

It might need a cooldown to prevent abuse though. (And to not stress out the healers too much.)

Atama wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

That's easy. The secondary class only augments the primary class, it doesn't even give you new skills. so no matter what you would use rage. The mage would only alter what those rage-induced fighter skills do to an extent.

Ok but if fighter abilities are built around a rage mechanic, how are you going to add that flavor to a mage spell for a mage/fighter... Or would you just ignore that whole aspect of a fighter when creating augments...

Just having only mana would be easier.

Having more dedicated resources would make reach class feel more unique.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Noaani

Gilikoth wrote: »

Tank not being able to use tank abilities because you're OOM just feels wrong.

There are a LOT of MMO's that have this.

I would argue that there are probably more that have this than there are that don't.

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

That's easy. The secondary class only augments the primary class, it doesn't even give you new skills. so no matter what you would use rage. The mage would only alter what those rage-induced fighter skills do to an extent.

Ok but if fighter abilities are built around a rage mechanic, how are you going to add that flavor to a mage spell for a mage/fighter... Or would you just ignore that whole aspect of a fighter when creating augments...

Just having only mana would be easier.

Having more dedicated resources would make reach class feel more unique.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

An augment modifies the skills of your main class in a way that resembles your secondary class. Any mechanics of that secondary class have nothing to do with it.

But before you start asking that classes be more unique, maybe wait until we actually see them first? You’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. We barely know anything about most of the classes.

JustVine

I don't see how it's 'getting ahead of themselves'. If none of us voiced our opinion until we saw it, how would Steven know there was demand for an indepth augment system that carried real weight on what your role is. You can't just 'make a shift in that direction' after building up your systems design without destroying a bunch of work. A developer is far more likely to just 'ignore the demand and accept the niche' at that point. After all that is part of the point of the forums at this stage of the development process.

Atama wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

I feel like the reason they would want to avoid different resources might be because of the hybrid class flavoring thing. If fighter abilities or play style uses rage, and they mix it with a mage what are they going to end up using? Rage, mana, both?

That's easy. The secondary class only augments the primary class, it doesn't even give you new skills. so no matter what you would use rage. The mage would only alter what those rage-induced fighter skills do to an extent.

Ok but if fighter abilities are built around a rage mechanic, how are you going to add that flavor to a mage spell for a mage/fighter... Or would you just ignore that whole aspect of a fighter when creating augments...

Just having only mana would be easier.

Having more dedicated resources would make reach class feel more unique.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

An augment modifies the skills of your main class in a way that resembles your secondary class. Any mechanics of that secondary class have nothing to do with it.

But before you start asking that classes be more unique, maybe wait until we actually see them first? You’re getting a bit ahead of yourself. We barely know anything about most of the classes.

Ok
But if a class is built around a mechanic that has a resource how are you going to have an ability augmented to resemble that class and just not have that resource exist...

Either way
I didn't ask for anything. Or even make a suggestion.
I don't care what they do for this honestly...

As far as the tank not being able to use tank abilities because he is OOM. Most of those abilities aren't resource based at all, just cooldown timers.

daveywavey

I too like having different resource types, but the full-mana thing seems to fit the Ashes lore. Nobody really has any archetype while they're still in Sanctus, cos they're cut off from the Essence. It's only when they come into contact with the Essence that they gain their powers, so it does sort of make sense that each skill is based in the magic of the Essence.

"Essence" again, just cos I've already said it so many times. Essence.

Essence.

JustVine

daveywavey wrote: »

I too like having different resource types, but the full-mana thing seems to fit the Ashes lore. Nobody really has any archetype while they're still in Sanctus, cos they're cut off from the Essence. It's only when they come into contact with the Essence that they gain their powers, so it does sort of make sense that each skill is based in the magic of the Essence.

"Essence" again, just cos I've already said it so many times. Essence.

Essence.

Thanks for distilling the Essence of the lore for us. I really felt like you captured it's essence.