$15 per month

I appreciate that this topic could get a little "emotional", but I figured it would be good to gauge opinion.

Inflation is always with us.

If by the time Ashes releases the sub cost was higher, say $20 per month, how would you feel?

How do you judge where your value-for-money vs. affordability threshold is?

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MybroViajero

CROW3 wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone take this argument on from the IS business perspective yet. I may have missed it, since I didn't read every thread. Here's what the revenue stream would look like at scale with a fixed 500k player base for a 12/mo period taking out a 35% margin:

$12/mo sub --> $46.8M - (existing expenses + future investment)
$15/mo sub --> $58.5M - (existing expenses + future investment)
$20/mo sub --> $78.0M - (existing expenses + future investment)

Given that 'existing expenses' is also a fixed amount in the above outcomes, you can see where having net revenue to invest in additional support, design, art, development, and QA resources would help IS secure the future of the game. Also, when you think about DLCs or expansions, those happen when you have the right amount of dedicated v. free resources to handle new content.

There's a lot of chaos behind some of the fixed variables, but I'm just trying to show the overall differential from an investment perspective.

The cosmetics there are going to play a big role.Having an average spending per monthly player would boost profits.

If 30% of the population is maintained buying cosmetics for 1 year at an average of $ 15 per month:

30%= $27M
That amount is 57.6% of the monthly sub at $ 12
That amount is 46.1% of the monthly sub at $ 15
That amount is 34.6% of the monthly sub at $ 20

Hoguti

$15-$20/mo
I’m skeptical about the cash shop, even for cosmetics only. It looks like a slippery slope. If the price went to $20 per month and had no cash shop, or included some cash shop currency for players accumulate and use towards some cash shop cosmetics, then I could see value added for that price. The devs seem aware of the cash shop concerns, and I’m hopeful they’ll remain true to their promises. Maybe it’s a bad idea, I’m just spitballing.
At the end of the day, if $20 is what it takes, and the game lives up, then consumers will have to decide. I can see it being a barrier to entry for some. Even if a person can afford the cost, will they justify it?

Conrad

If you create greater barriers of entry for players you hurt the population of the game. Why are we even discussing this? People here are literally FOR creating barriers of entry right now more than against them.

Sure, profit is profit, but what's the use of short term profit when you want the game to have as many players as possible. 15$ and £10 is what guarantees the biggest player pop and probably highest population. Increasing the monthly sub beyond the baseline would only be profit driven and not pop health driven

Songcaller

I'd rather have less queues but full servers. If it takes more money to provide enough servers so queues are minimal I will be happy. If the queues can be mitigated with $15 a month I'd also be a happy camper. If I'm paying a sub I don't want to spend hours in queues - queues also drive people away and then the queues recede but the player base also has dropped which is why the queues are reduced. The balance is difficult to produce and maintain. I haven't heard anything official and my package game time calculation hasn't changed so I still believe its $15 a month for the sub.

McMackMuck

@Conrad "15$ and £10 is what guarantees the biggest player pop and probably highest population."

FYI, just in case it's helpful.
I'm no expert on the US tax system, but as I understand it prices are (always? often? generally?) stated before state and federal taxes are applied. This can be confusing for foreigners, myself included. I'm in the UK, so I normally expect something stated as $15 USD to end up being approximately £15 GBP once local taxes are added.

Conrad

McMackMuck wrote: »

@Conrad "15$ and £10 is what guarantees the biggest player pop and probably highest population."

FYI, just in case it's helpful.
I'm no expert on the US tax system, but as I understand it prices are (always? often? generally?) stated before state and federal taxes are applied. This can be confusing for foreigners, myself included. I'm in the UK, so I normally expect something stated as $15 USD to end up being approximately £15 GBP once local taxes are added.

Not sure where you got that from. 15$ is regional, not the baseline for all countries. £10 is the baseline here for mmos as well when its 15 #

Ironhope

People have started making a case that more people is better for the game.

Personally I really agree with that.

Its very important that the game feels alive and popular.
The more it feels alive and popular the more its going to attract people and the more its going to seep into popular culture making a name for itself and ensuring long-term stability and the opportunity for success.

So in the end, a smaller subscription fee might end up making the devs more money if it ends up attracting more people.

SAMITAS

Why not adopt rifts rex system?

In rift i bought rex with ingame money that other people put in Auction House, but on topic, 15-20 euros per month is ok i guess, 15 being great 20 being on the pricy kinda side. For this side of europe at least :-(

Noaani

Conrad wrote: »

Sure, profit is profit, but what's the use of short term profit when you want the game to have as many players as possible.

It isn't short term profit, that is why we are talking about subscription price and not adding a box cost.

Adding a box cost would have the effect you are talking about, an I creased subscription would not.

Jonta

Noaani wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

Sure, profit is profit, but what's the use of short term profit when you want the game to have as many players as possible.

It isn't short term profit, that is why we are talking about subscription price and not adding a box cost.

Adding a box cost would have the effect you are talking about, an I creased subscription would not.

Most people don't have a problem with paying £50 for a game with the first month sub included then £10,,$15 a month. But that £20,,$20 a month even with the game free to download is still double the cost every month, and that is what people will see .

Any ways I 've put my points across and at the end of the day they will charge as they want and people with either sub or not..

Noaani

JONTA wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Conrad wrote: »

Sure, profit is profit, but what's the use of short term profit when you want the game to have as many players as possible.

It isn't short term profit, that is why we are talking about subscription price and not adding a box cost.

Adding a box cost would have the effect you are talking about, an I creased subscription would not.

Most people don't have a problem with paying £50 for a game with the first month sub included then £10,,$15 a month. But that £20,,$20 a month even with the game free to download is still double the cost every month, and that is what people will see .

Any ways I 've put my points across and at the end of the day they will charge as they want and people with either sub or not..

Who said anything about £20?

We are talking about going from $15 to $20, an increase of 33%. Take what ever currency you pay in and increase it by 33%, and that is what we are talking about.

If you currently pay £10, then we are talking about £13.33. Not £20.

Vhaeyne

@Noaani imagine how crazy this conversation would be if Intrepid only accepted Bitcoin...

McMackMuck

@Noaani I may have muddied the waters, but hopefully I can clear this up.

@JONTA
In the USA (and Canada) items are stated pre-tax. This means that everyone in the USA expects to pay a little more than $15 for a $15 item. This can be mind blowing to Europeans, who are used to seeing tax included in a stated price.

$15 USD is currently £10.88 GBP, but your bank often won't give you a competitive exchange rate so by the time you've paid a bank transaction fee and 20% VAT(*), $15 USD (pre-taxes) could cost ~£13.50 GBP (including taxes).

(*) I'm not sure where the name 'Value Added Tax' comes from - the taxman isn't adding any value, just making the item more expensive!

Following the same logic $20 USD (pre-taxes) could cost ~£18 GBP (including taxes).

I offer this by way of explanation for my previous post.

Blip

15-30 USD is fine.

Ravel

Maybe 1000 USD is fine too

Noaani

Ravel wrote: »

Maybe 1000 USD is fine too

Yes, a small increase in the subscription price to a game to match inflation that the industry has been too scared to keep up with is absolutely the same thing as a 66 times price increase.

I mean, 33% is basically the same number as 6666.6%.

Uncommon Sense

$15 was the base implemented some 2 decades ago. A rough inflation adjustment would be about $22. But consumers are conditioned to the $15 figure. However back then you bought the box that actually had stuff in it which usually had 1 month included and the $15 per month afterwards.

No cash shop cosmetics or other offerings... just a game.

So the question is would those same consumers pay for an empty box and $22 per month in current times...

The answer is probably no.

$15 is the expected gaming fee...

However Intrepid is not selling empty box and in modern times the cosmetics are to profitable to ignore from a business point of view.

So you get a game for $15 and optionally purchase ego vanity modifiers. The sales stats are in and it's just to profitable not to offer a cash shop...Such are the times.

Personally I'd prefer the $22 per month and no cash shop...but Unfortunately I am in the minority of old school MMO aficionados that prefer a fully fleshed out game at an honest pay to play fee.

riotwithstyle

If the game become as cool as we expect to be then none will complain about 5$ difference. I am ready to give my last 20$ if i really enjoy spending my time into Ashes. Ofcourse shop should be cosmetics only and no p2w.

Korenthil

If the game ends up to be truly ground breaking than 20 USD a month is fine.

Anything less than ground breaking and its going to be FTP in a year anyway.

mobtek

$10-15 local currency is the sweet spot IMHO

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