PvP Question Tracking Loot destroyed

Most forms of PvP in ashes has a risk of destroying, or losing items. From small term pvp to node and freehold destructions, as well as castle sieges. In each of these instances players, guilds, and citizens can loose or drop items and resources. Many of this gets destroyed. (And this is a good thing because it will help combat long term economic stability)

I'm an Eve player, and after a fight it always feels rewarding to see the killboard, to check who you killed, and how much they had destroyed / dropped. Its also going to be important for some (pvp) guilds where on guild ops if they lose people and they loose materials or gear it can be replaced by the guild.

So my question is: Will tere be in AND out of game options to track what you've killed or what you've lost? This is also important data for preventing spies to join your guild / node. If they have deliberatly attacked guild membes, or have been target by guild members this might warrant further investigation, of why he wants to join the guild.

In a game like ashes, where you have multiple reasons to fight, and have multiple ways to gain or loose because of those fights its important to be able to keep track of this. EG if your at war, and you kill a lot of their members, you can end up winning the war, because of the monetary lossses they have. Beeing able to track this should be possible.

So my question. Are you implementing tracking of items lost / destroyed and will we be able to export this to for instance a website

If you are unsue about what i've describbed and how such a thing would look look at)
Kesthely Character tracking

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Comments

McShave

@Kesthely
The only thing lost in PvP is resources, like profession raw goods (mined ore, lumber, herbs) and "monster certificates" (items dropped by monsters that can be sold for gold). The only way you can lose items is if you die when you are corrupted. Even if your house/ freehold gets destroyed in a siege, all your furniture will be shipped to you (you will lose resources like mentioned before).

I think Intrepid will implement a way to add a player or a guild to a guild "hit list" that can mark a player (or players) as "at war" for people in the guild. Intrepid has not mentioned a way to track the amount of resources lost by players that have been killed tho, and I don't expect to see it.

Also, as far as we know' Intrepid is not providing any API for this game, so that there will be no way to create addons or to create websites with information obtained through Intrepid's servers. Intrepid has mentioned they want to do a lot of website functionality tho, most likely in-house, so that is something to look forward to.

CROW3

Hm…also gets me thinking. It would be cool if the winner in a node siege gets to loot the battlefield.

Kesthely

What im suggesting is that it might be nice to see how much resources someone lost due to killing them, their node or caravan. Since you will have corrupted players this includes potentially their items. Killboards are always fun to keep track off. It allows you to remember that one awesome fight. and in terms of wars you can deduce who was the actual winner by resources destroyed.

Hasil

I don't know why more recent PvP MMOs all take the approach of *loss* being the incentive to PvP. A reward model (gaining something for succeeding) instead of a punitive model (losing something for failing) is a much better system overall that will incentivize people to engage in PvP more frequently and for longer. DAOC, so many years ago, and to a degree GW2, both got it right, with separate PvP progression systems that rewarded progress and achievement.

Percimes

Hasil wrote: »

I don't know why more recent PvP MMOs all take the approach of *loss* being the incentive to PvP. A reward model (gaining something for succeeding) instead of a punitive model (losing something for failing) is a much better system overall that will incentivize people to engage in PvP more frequently and for longer. DAOC, so many years ago, and to a degree GW2, both got it right, with separate PvP progression systems that rewarded progress and achievement.

Hmm, the way I see it, rewards also have drawbacks: they attract the people who desire them. How is it a drawback? Some people want the rewards but don't care or like what they are awarded for. These people are the ones who find ways to game the system, get the rewards as efficiently as possible, meaning, doing the less of the desired activities. Rewards kill the fun. That's not restricted to PvP though.

The first time I quit WoW was not long after the introduction of the "honour" system.

Ulfbrinter

Hasil wrote: »

I don't know why more recent PvP MMOs all take the approach of *loss* being the incentive to PvP. A reward model (gaining something for succeeding) instead of a punitive model (losing something for failing) is a much better system overall that will incentivize people to engage in PvP more frequently and for longer. DAOC, so many years ago, and to a degree GW2, both got it right, with separate PvP progression systems that rewarded progress and achievement.

This model goes back over two decades, homie. The system that Ashes is using is literally nothing compared to other MMO's I've played. Heck, he just listed one. Also, I disagree with the DAOC situation. I played it and WAR (Mythic just imported the same system into WAR). There's no sense of gain. Killing people just gives you more tickets/tokens/rep to use to buy gear. The only exception to this was when you actually invaded the other faction's main city and got access to a select amount of rare world-drop gear on top of the regular token/ticket/rep gear that you could nab. It was boring after you'd knocked down the faction's main city to Rank 1 for the third time in a month for what exactly? More crap you can use to beat the other guys more thoroughly than they've already been beat and have since quit the game?

You are also discounting a major, major motivator at play here. When players can actively lose things, they have to be more selective with their fights (in many cases - not all, but many) and this provides a genuine incentive during a defensive/offensive situation (such as a node siege) to fight all the harder for what you've got. If you don't, you are not going to reap the rewards in either direction.

PvP under the way you describe has always been something you can just actively avoid, or not fear dying from. If that's the case... why have the PvP at all? Why play the MMO in question? Go play Monster Hunter or something.

Hasil

Ulfbrinter wrote: »

Hasil wrote: »

This model goes back over two decades, homie. The system that Ashes is using is literally nothing compared to other MMO's I've played. Heck, he just listed one. Also, I disagree with the DAOC situation. I played it and WAR (Mythic just imported the same system into WAR). There's no sense of gain. Killing people just gives you more tickets/tokens/rep to use to buy gear.

No, there was no gear purchasing with tokens in DAOC. You got realm ranks for killing others -- it was a separate PvP progression system that allowed you to buy abilities that helped you more in PvP.

Reward, don't punish

Ulfbrinter

Hasil wrote: »

No, there was no gear purchasing with tokens in DAOC. You got realm ranks for killing others -- it was a separate PvP progression system that allowed you to buy abilities that helped you more in PvP.

Reward, don't punish

There was in WAR and the delineation between PvE and PvP was precisely the same. I'm sorry I didn't clarify what they copied and pasted over. It was this mechanism. The rep and tokens were part of WAR, but the separation was ported from their previous effort. There's a reason why so many people like to compare and contrast the two projects: they're very similar yet different.

And again - there is no reward. I don't give a crap about earning some tokens I can use to buy a new piece of armor. That's PvE, not PvP and it doesn't line up with what Steve/Intrepid want to do. We'd both be shouting into the dark on this topic if we kept going in circles like this.

Kesthely

Hasil wrote: »

Ulfbrinter wrote: »

Hasil wrote: »

This model goes back over two decades, homie. The system that Ashes is using is literally nothing compared to other MMO's I've played. Heck, he just listed one. Also, I disagree with the DAOC situation. I played it and WAR (Mythic just imported the same system into WAR). There's no sense of gain. Killing people just gives you more tickets/tokens/rep to use to buy gear.

A
No, there was no gear purchasing with tokens in DAOC. You got realm ranks for killing others -- it was a separate PvP progression system that allowed you to buy abilities that helped you more in PvP.

Reward, don't punish

As it stands now the system both rewards and punishes. the loser drops resources the winner can loot them but thats a different topic, what i want to be able to do is see exactly what dropped so i can tally it against our losses. That way you can gouge if the war you declared was succesfull, and whether or not the resources spend on it was worth it.

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