Experiences playing on the New Archeage Unchained Fresh Server

One of the things I noticed which could be a huge issue in ashes is having power gaps that are too large between more hardcore players and casual players in an open PvP environment. I noticed it during the alpha testing that the lvl 15s with good gear just crush the ones with lesser good gear without trying to a point of making it uncompetitive not just an advantage. I would highly recommend closing the power gap between levels/equipment for the more even playingfield between differently leveled/geared players. It's a better experience for all involved, even the ones with the better gear/levels. I still think the advantage should be there but just not as much. My experience in Archeage trying to farm and then getting 100 --> 0 in 1-2 seconds over and over was a very unfun experience. I'm always up for a pvp fight but not like that. I would love to hear other people's opinions on this!

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

JustVine

Are games with in game player based markets sandboxes by your definition?

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Are games with in game markets sandboxes by your definition?

Not inherently.

But buying and selling can hardly be considered "having an impact on the wider world".

Even "IF" we were to agree on this point, this has never been the point of MMO's. Not in the past, and not today.

JustVine

Are games with a limitation on enemy and resource spawning (and therefore you can effect resources available to other players by taking them) a sandbox to you?

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Are games with a limitation on enemy and resource spawning (and therefore you can effect resources available to other players by taking them) a sandbox to you?

Not inherently.

But creating a monopoly on materials can hardly be considered "having an impact on the wider world".

Even "IF" we were to agree on this point, this has never been the point of MMO's. Not in the past, and not today.

JustVine

Then you can see why I did not reffer to these concepts as sandbox as they would not have met your strict definitions. You can also see why people who play mmos for these things would not consider a lobby based game a substitute.

Degrees and meaning of progression are separate concepts from having an impact on those around you. They effect each other, but are separate reasons for playing the same game.

The ability to meaningfully effect the world around you and your fellow players will be front and center in this game. Therefore the degree progression has an impact on your ability to meaningfully effect the world and those around you must be calibrated in kind.

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Then you can see why I did not reffer to these concepts as sandbox as they would not have met your strict definitions. You can also see why people who play mmos for these things would not consider a lobby based game a substitute.

It isn't my definition. It is THE definition.

I don't get to decide what makes an open world game any more than you get to decide.

Degrees and meaning of progression are separate concepts from having an impact on those around you. They effect each other, but are separate reasons for playing the same game.

Take note, we are not talking about why people play MMO's. We are talking about the point of MMO's.

People can have what ever reason at all they want for doing what ever it is that they want. This does not mean that each individual players reason for playing the game is the reason the game - or indeed the genre - was made.

If you create a persistent world with a large population, you add in a combat system, enemies and character progression, you have an MMO.

Anything on top of that is just additional features - these additional features ARE NOT the point of the game, as you are trying to suggest they are.

JustVine

Would you say that the node system and everything around that is the point of the game Ashes of Creation?

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Would you say that the node system and everything around that is the point of the game Ashes of Creation?

It is additional features. Somewhat unique additional features, perhaps, but additional features regardless.

The node system and everything around it could not exist as an MMO by itself.

JustVine

That sounds like a no.

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

That sounds like a no.

Can confirm.

JustVine

So we have a situation where op points out the possible effects of progression on the node system. By your definitions if its going to call itself an mmo it must cater to progression above this concern. Op makes a valid point that this might cause issues with the health and longevity of the game. Therefore we can conclude based on your premise and op's reasonable concern that we should not call Ashes of Creation an mmo so it has the freedom to craft the game around the node system and gameplay loops that come from that rather than be beholden to a strict definition.

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

Op makes a valid point that this might cause issues with the health and longevity of the game.

I wasn't originally replying to the OP though.

This IS a discussion forum, not a everyone-needs-to-only-talk-about-the-first-post-in-the-thread forum

As to your conclusion, you seem to have not communicated about 4 or 5 leaps in logic there. Ashes will indeed have gear progression at the level cap, so I really am unsure of what you are talking about here, without you filling in those missing logic leaps you seem to have made.

truelyyy

Noaani wrote: »

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Barrakus wrote: »

HOWEVER: There are caveats. PvP must be primarily skill driven. I should not be running around ripping players apart who are the same level as me as a button mashing novice who doesn’t understand my class or how to play it just because my gear is better than theirs.

But if gear doesn't make a decent difference, what is the point of progressing via gear?

If you are not trying to progress via gear, what is the point of playing?

And don't say "fun". If all a player wants is progression-less fun, then are myriad lobby based or other non-persistent games for them to play. the entire point of a persistent world in terms of gameplay is progression.

So, if there is no progression, why bother?

It's having the gear difference too high between players, no one said there won't be any gear difference! I would say new world gear differences is actually a healthy amount for all its flaws. When PvPing you don't feel you lost combat just because of gear differences.

If you don't feel as if you lost because of gear, you don't feel as if you won because of gear.

Again, progression in an MMO is supposed to be at the forefront of the entire game. People come back to a persistent world to progress - people play lobby games to just compete against other players.

The entire notion of a persistent game in which character progression is muted is self defeating.

I'd argue it's more about build differencies that are fun not just pure vertical advantages over others. Also remmember not all progression has to be vertical, most of ashes end game will be horizontal progression.

Your obssession about pure vertical progression is not a healthy one. Also if you look at the most popular MMOs this unhealthy amount of vertical progression isn't actually in them, except for BDO, but people play that for the action combat you can't get anywhere else.

JustVine

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Barrakus wrote: »

HOWEVER: There are caveats. PvP must be primarily skill driven. I should not be running around ripping players apart who are the same level as me as a button mashing novice who doesn’t understand my class or how to play it just because my gear is better than theirs.

But if gear doesn't make a decent difference, what is the point of progressing via gear?

If you are not trying to progress via gear, what is the point of playing?

And don't say "fun". If all a player wants is progression-less fun, then are myriad lobby based or other non-persistent games for them to play. the entire point of a persistent world in terms of gameplay is progression.

So, if there is no progression, why bother?

It's having the gear difference too high between players, no one said there won't be any gear difference! I would say new world gear differences is actually a healthy amount for all its flaws. When PvPing you don't feel you lost combat just because of gear differences.

If you don't feel as if you lost because of gear, you don't feel as if you won because of gear.

Again, progression in an MMO is supposed to be at the forefront of the entire game. People come back to a persistent world to progress - people play lobby games to just compete against other players.

The entire notion of a persistent game in which character progression is muted is self defeating.

I'd argue it's more about build differencies that are fun not just pure vertical advantages over others

Noaani doesn't seem to think the point of a game is fun. He thinks games should be whatever they are defined as, regardless of fun. You are better off not calling Ashes an MMO if you want a productive discussion therefore. No matter how inaccurate it may feel to you to call it something other than that.

truelyyy

JustVine wrote: »

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Barrakus wrote: »

HOWEVER: There are caveats. PvP must be primarily skill driven. I should not be running around ripping players apart who are the same level as me as a button mashing novice who doesn’t understand my class or how to play it just because my gear is better than theirs.

But if gear doesn't make a decent difference, what is the point of progressing via gear?

If you are not trying to progress via gear, what is the point of playing?

And don't say "fun". If all a player wants is progression-less fun, then are myriad lobby based or other non-persistent games for them to play. the entire point of a persistent world in terms of gameplay is progression.

So, if there is no progression, why bother?

It's having the gear difference too high between players, no one said there won't be any gear difference! I would say new world gear differences is actually a healthy amount for all its flaws. When PvPing you don't feel you lost combat just because of gear differences.

If you don't feel as if you lost because of gear, you don't feel as if you won because of gear.

Again, progression in an MMO is supposed to be at the forefront of the entire game. People come back to a persistent world to progress - people play lobby games to just compete against other players.

The entire notion of a persistent game in which character progression is muted is self defeating.

I'd argue it's more about build differencies that are fun not just pure vertical advantages over others

Noaani doesn't seem to think the point of a game is fun. He thinks games should be whatever they are defined as, regardless of fun. You are better off not calling Ashes an MMO if you want a productive discussion therefore. No matter how inaccurate it may feel to you to call it something other than that.

yea don't really understand the argument because WoW is an MMO and what you do has no effect on the world XD

JustVine

truely wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

truely wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Barrakus wrote: »

HOWEVER: There are caveats. PvP must be primarily skill driven. I should not be running around ripping players apart who are the same level as me as a button mashing novice who doesn’t understand my class or how to play it just because my gear is better than theirs.

But if gear doesn't make a decent difference, what is the point of progressing via gear?

If you are not trying to progress via gear, what is the point of playing?

And don't say "fun". If all a player wants is progression-less fun, then are myriad lobby based or other non-persistent games for them to play. the entire point of a persistent world in terms of gameplay is progression.

So, if there is no progression, why bother?

It's having the gear difference too high between players, no one said there won't be any gear difference! I would say new world gear differences is actually a healthy amount for all its flaws. When PvPing you don't feel you lost combat just because of gear differences.

If you don't feel as if you lost because of gear, you don't feel as if you won because of gear.

Again, progression in an MMO is supposed to be at the forefront of the entire game. People come back to a persistent world to progress - people play lobby games to just compete against other players.

The entire notion of a persistent game in which character progression is muted is self defeating.

I'd argue it's more about build differencies that are fun not just pure vertical advantages over others

Noaani doesn't seem to think the point of a game is fun. He thinks games should be whatever they are defined as, regardless of fun. You are better off not calling Ashes an MMO if you want a productive discussion therefore. No matter how inaccurate it may feel to you to call it something other than that.

yea don't really understand the argument because WoW is an MMO and what you do has no effect on the world XD

Noaani does not believe WoW is an MMO either though.

Thulf

Time to kill in ArcheAge is non-existent. I wouldn't define unbalanced one-shot gankfest as "PvP" in an mmorpg... It feels more like griefing than actual PvP. I'm not a masochist nor do I find being toxic a form of fun activity.

Whoever makes an unexpected jump on the other guy first wins. So fun /s

Imagine if this was the case in any other MMORPG. I'm imagining Albion Online where most people run around in few tiers lower gear as opposed to the highest tier gears. Because it's not a 1-shot fiesta, people actually have a chance to back off from an unfavorable fight, though there's always a chance to fail that eventually. It becomes a hunt for the chaser and a different kind of adrenaline injection for the guy trying to escape. I can't imagine any1 playing that game if it was 1-shot fiesta like ArcheAge is. Gosh...

Noaani

JustVine wrote: »

You are better off not calling Ashes an MMO if you want a productive discussion therefore.

You seem to be unaware that it was literally you that said this, not me.

Noaani

truely wrote: »

most of ashes end game will be horizontal progression.

This is factually incorrect.

Some of Ashes progression will be horizontal, not most.

Vhaeyne

Noaani wrote: »

truely wrote: »

most of ashes end game will be horizontal progression.

This is factually incorrect.

Some of Ashes progression will be horizontal, not most.

Basically just the religion system. Which has been described as BoP "Side grades" of gear players can work on.

To me, that tells me that they will be like cheap starting gear that will not be as powerful as normal gear.

Child Item