The Rise of Social Justice Warrior developer.

Skimpy outfits tends to get more of the diverse payer base and add to the fantasy aspect to mmorpgs. Final Fantasy XIV is partly successful because they have skimpy outfits contributing to women playing the game. Women like to look sexy and cute so making a sexy clothing will sell the game. I just hope Ashes does not go the censorship social justice warrior route like other Western Developers.

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CROW3

Boanergese wrote: »

Now we can all be chaste and virtuous. All players, male and female, will have to where this outfit, so no one is offended.

Heh. Maybe you haven’t spent enough time in Italy where nuns are hypersexualized and objectified because their habit hides so much.

I think these fetishes arise from our fundamentally Puritanical perspective on sex, rather than the costumes themselves. ‘Sex sells’ is kind of an inaccurate description of modern marketing (in the US market). I’ve always thought that ‘sexy’ sells - the allusion to sex without crossing the line - ‘sex’ is still too transgressive an act to sell.

An example, in Australia there was a commercial with a couple having sex to sell yogurt. You could never even come close to this in the US to talk about sex, let alone sell something completely unrelated. It’s a weird type of Victorianism, so we fetishize the modern ‘ankle’ of fashion and form.

Noaani

raylegh wrote: »

Well I never said I like it or not. But I'm not responsible of other people feelings.

There are two kinds of people in the world.

Those that consider the impact of their decisions on others (at least on rational people), and those that do not.

Now, I am not saying that one of these types is a better person than the other type... actually, yes I am, that is exactly what I am saying.

raylegh wrote: »

I agree to set limits in this armor discussion, but racional ones. Because seeing an overweight hairy guy in a mankini in Verra makes no sense. In the other hand there is nothing that points out wearing skimpy outfits is bad or shouldn't be there.

Ok, so you are ok with skimpy outfits, as long as you find what is underneath to be attractive - real or in game.

I think we all know enough about you as a person now.

My over all opinion on what should or should not be in Ashes isn't what I am discussing here, I am simply pointing out the flaw in your assertion that ones decisions don't affect others - this is a popular yet factually incorrect stance.

JamesSunderland

Boanergese wrote: »

Now we can all be chaste and virtuous. All players, male and female, will have to where this outfit, so no one is offended.

Based, Now i want a Priest Cassock Skin.

Boanergese

CROW3 wrote: »

Boanergese wrote: »

Now we can all be chaste and virtuous. All players, male and female, will have to where this outfit, so no one is offended.

Heh. Maybe you haven’t spent enough time in Italy where nuns are hypersexualized and objectified because their habit hides so much.

I think these fetishes arise from our fundamentally Puritanical perspective on sex, rather than the costumes themselves. ‘Sex sells’ is kind of an inaccurate description of modern marketing (in the US market). I’ve always thought that ‘sexy’ sells - the allusion to sex without crossing the line - ‘sex’ is still too transgressive an act to sell.

An example, in Australia there was a commercial with a couple having sex to sell yogurt. You could never even come close to this in the US to talk about sex, let alone sell something completely unrelated. It’s a weird type of Victorianism, so we fetishize the modern ‘ankle’ of fashion and form.

Obviously, my post was meant as satire. I was referencing the Puritan views from the 17th century. The issue over censorship has been debated on Reddit and the Internet for several years. I do understand that the allusion of sex sells. Cascade made a funny commercial awhile ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V13-R-TBvU

CROW3

Hehe that was a good ad.

Selo

Im fine with any clothing as long as it fits the Fantasy setting and the occasion.
Fighting a Dragon in underwear is maybe not the best idea..
Revealing clothers in open world are ok, like cleavage and skirts for classes it fits.
Or Barechested for more berserkerish classes.
Maybe have some casual option in towns etc you can toggle for more revealing clothes (not overboard)
I guess Fantasy is closest to medival times, where bikinis etc were not even invented.

raylegh

Noaani wrote: »

There are two kinds of people in the world.

Those that consider the impact of their decisions on others (at least on rational people), and those that do not.

There are two kinds of people in the world, those that think they're right and those that search the truth. My kind is the second one and we are very few.

When did I say that I'm not considering the impact of my actions on other people? All my life I did care about other people and that ended up making me very unhappy that I had a depression.

Now I keep trying not to negatively impact other people as well, BUT what I'm saying is that if something happens and you get offended, the problem is yours because you don't have the maturity to receive that stimulus appropriately.

I can say that because I succeed on it. I do not care anymore what do people think about me, nobody can't offend me, and I've never been so happy.

Noaani wrote: »

Now, I am not saying that one of these types is a better person than the other type... actually, yes I am, that is exactly what I am saying.

And you can say whatever you want but you are nobody to judge anything about other people because you don't know nothing, and even knowing, you are no God. Trust me I'm not saying it to attack you or deffend myself, I'm saying it with no ego, because I have no ego, I'm only a scientific person.

Noaani wrote: »

Ok, so you are ok with skimpy outfits, as long as you find what is underneath to be attractive - real or in game.

I think we all know enough about you as a person now.

Dude, read it again. What part of "making sense" did you not understand?

Noaani wrote: »

My over all opinion on what should or should not be in Ashes isn't what I am discussing here, I am simply pointing out the flaw in your assertion that ones decisions don't affect others - this is a popular yet factually incorrect stance.

Again I've never said that. I said that is people's own responsibility to take the others actions in a good way (And I'm not saying is easy or never have problems).

I have no problem with you or your opinions I'm just saying that you can't decide what is correct out of the scientific method. You can convince me if you show real facts and data. I have no need to maintain my position if it is not correct.

SirChancelot

Noaani wrote: »

raylegh wrote: »

Well I never said I like it or not. But I'm not responsible of other people feelings.

There are two kinds of people in the world.

Those that consider the impact of their decisions on others (at least on rational people), and those that do not.

Now, I am not saying that one of these types is a better person than the other type... actually, yes I am, that is exactly what I am saying.

raylegh wrote: »

I agree to set limits in this armor discussion, but racional ones. Because seeing an overweight hairy guy in a mankini in Verra makes no sense. In the other hand there is nothing that points out wearing skimpy outfits is bad or shouldn't be there.

Ok, so you are ok with skimpy outfits, as long as you find what is underneath to be attractive - real or in game.

I think we all know enough about you as a person now.

My over all opinion on what should or should not be in Ashes isn't what I am discussing here, I am simply pointing out the flaw in your assertion that ones decisions don't affect others - this is a popular yet factually incorrect stance.

Ok, but you should also point out that this goes both ways. You saying you don't like seeing skimpy outfits because you are offended, therefore they shouldn't be in the game is equally as intrusive on someone else's experience as having people wear them in the game where you can see them.
So both sides of the aisle are stepping on the other sides toes by saying the game should have what they want in it.

If there is a discussion to be had it should be how do you give both sides what they want, is that possible?

Probably have something similar to the ability to shut off transmogs/costumes on your end, but have a filter setting for outfits considered 'revealing'?

Noaani

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You saying you don't like seeing skimpy outfits because you are offended, therefore they shouldn't be in the game is equally as intrusive on someone else's experience as having people wear them in the game where you can see them.

I am not saying that at all though.

I haven't given my thoughts on the topic at all.

All I am saying is that the poster I replied to suggested that you shouldn't take other people in to consideration when making decisions, and that is not a good way to be.

Noaani

raylegh wrote: »

Again I've never said. I said that is people's own responsibility to take the others actions in a good way

You specifically said

raylegh wrote: »

I wonder why nowadays for some reason we people can't dress how we want... You know that if my armor is ofending you, the problem is only yours, righ?

Now, if they aren't the words you meant to use, that is on you.

The above sentence means that if some overweight hairy guy wearing a mankini puts you off, then that is your issue. You seem to be ok with a world where you are standing in line behind that overweight hairy guy to get some ice cream, while he is pulling that mankini out from between his cheeks.

While a person has the 'legal' right to do this in most of the western world, that doesn't mean they should. That doesn't mean that when they got up that morning and decided to wear that mankini to the beach, they shouldn't have spared a thought for the impact it would have on those around them.

You said that this man need not consider this as it is other peoples problem (again, your words, if the words you used don't convey the meaning you wanted to convey, that really is an issue you need to address). I say it should be at least a consideration that this person thinks through.

Again, this says everything we need to know about you as a person. As far as you are concerned, it is all you, and no one else matters.

Nerror

II would try to separate RL and ingame when it comes to discussing what you feel is ok to wear. It's quite different for me at least.

In real life I don't give a damn what you wear when just walking around. Naked, mankini, clown costume, whatever. You do you. I only care about basic hygiene, which means if you want to sit on a public bench or train/bus seat you need to wear shorts at the very least. A shirt too if you lean your back on anything. And a mask as applicable.

In the game I want to keep it as thematic and lore adjacent as possible. Skimpy is fine if it fits the lore and setting, like it did with Age of Conan, and it's equal for all.

Vhaeyne

Nerror wrote: »

II would try to separate RL and ingame when it comes to discussing what you feel is ok to wear. It's quite different for me at least.

In real life I don't give a damn what you wear when just walking around. Naked, mankini, clown costume, whatever. You do you. I only care about basic hygiene, which means if you want to sit on a public bench or train/bus seat you need to wear shorts at the very least. A shirt too if you lean your back on anything. And a mask as applicable.

In the game I want to keep it as thematic and lore adjacent as possible. Skimpy is fine if it fits the lore and setting, like it did with Age of Conan, and it's equal for all.

Are we cool?

Personally, I think the Conan aesthetic is badass and could fit into most MMORPGs well.

SirChancelot

Noaani wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You saying you don't like seeing skimpy outfits because you are offended, therefore they shouldn't be in the game is equally as intrusive on someone else's experience as having people wear them in the game where you can see them.

I am not saying that at all though.

I haven't given my thoughts on the topic at all.

All I am saying is that the poster I replied to suggested that you shouldn't take other people in to consideration when making decisions, and that is not a good way to be.

That was a generic 'you', not a specific 'you'...

I agree with you, that you should be mindful of others when making decisions... But they should be doing the same.

CROW3

I love Frazetta’s art. The whole Conan story, like the writing itself, has a pretty fascinating story behind it. Worth reading up on to see how odd the muse can be.

I think my favorite is still Larry Elmore though. Have a few of his signed works hanging in my office.

Vhaeyne

CROW3 wrote: »

I love Frazetta’s art. The whole Conan story, like the writing itself, has a pretty fascinating story behind it. Worth reading up on to see how odd the muse can be.

I think my favorite is still Larry Elmore though. Have a few of his signed works hanging in my office.

Yeah, it's all so classic to me. I love it. As it relates to the thread. It feels like SJWs would prefer to purge influence of some of these older artists from modern fantasy in favor of more modest designs.

When I feel like artists are censoring themselves to appeal to a larger crowd, it makes me not want to take them seriously.

I enjoyed playing Diablo 2 Resurrected, but the censorship was upsetting. Luckey, for me, I already experienced the story as it was intended decades ago. I just sucks to see the art censored and know that there are going to be new generations of Diablo fans experiencing the art in a restricted form.

On the flip side, you see stuff like this that give you hope:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9ehFCPT3HA

I don't think I would like Lost Ark as a game, but I love to see developers behave like this. It is refreshing to see creators stick to their guns. Steven apologized for something he said a while ago(I think it was a hot take on new world). I understand why he did it, but I would be lying if I did not say I would have preferred to see him double down. Apologies like that to me comes off as self-censorship. Not saying that is the case, but it felt that way at the time.

The Mortal Online devs don't seem to care at all what people think. They have a vision for the game and are quick to shut down any ideas of censorship or making things more accessible. That is the kind of behavior that really makes me admire a development team.

CROW3

Yeah - the MO2 folks doubled down on full nudity, which is great cause maybe folks will get over their hang ups (probably not though).

Noaani

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

SirChancelot11 wrote: »

You saying you don't like seeing skimpy outfits because you are offended, therefore they shouldn't be in the game is equally as intrusive on someone else's experience as having people wear them in the game where you can see them.

I am not saying that at all though.

I haven't given my thoughts on the topic at all.

All I am saying is that the poster I replied to suggested that you shouldn't take other people in to consideration when making decisions, and that is not a good way to be.

That was a generic 'you', not a specific 'you'...

Fair enough.

I am not going to hold you responsible for the shortcomings of the English language.

Atama

CROW3 wrote: »

I love Frazetta’s art. The whole Conan story, like the writing itself, has a pretty fascinating story behind it. Worth reading up on to see how odd the muse can be.

I think my favorite is still Larry Elmore though. Have a few of his signed works hanging in my office.

I got to meet Elmore. The nicest guy. He was a family friend to a friend of mine and she introduced me to him. I totally geeked out because he was my favorite fantasy artist and he was totally humble about it.

I bought two different art books of his from Kickstarter and I have them as a set. I’m really proud of them. They even include an original drawing he did, an actual unique drawing of a dragon as part of the reward. So awesome. I mostly supported his projects though because he was such a nice guy, as nice as his talent, and I thought he deserved it.

Dolyem

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

II would try to separate RL and ingame when it comes to discussing what you feel is ok to wear. It's quite different for me at least.

In real life I don't give a damn what you wear when just walking around. Naked, mankini, clown costume, whatever. You do you. I only care about basic hygiene, which means if you want to sit on a public bench or train/bus seat you need to wear shorts at the very least. A shirt too if you lean your back on anything. And a mask as applicable.

In the game I want to keep it as thematic and lore adjacent as possible. Skimpy is fine if it fits the lore and setting, like it did with Age of Conan, and it's equal for all.

Are we cool?

Personally, I think the Conan aesthetic is badass and could fit into most MMORPGs well.

I loved the Age of Conan and Conan Exiles aesthetics. They fit the world building perfectly imo.

Nerror

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

II would try to separate RL and ingame when it comes to discussing what you feel is ok to wear. It's quite different for me at least.

In real life I don't give a damn what you wear when just walking around. Naked, mankini, clown costume, whatever. You do you. I only care about basic hygiene, which means if you want to sit on a public bench or train/bus seat you need to wear shorts at the very least. A shirt too if you lean your back on anything. And a mask as applicable.

In the game I want to keep it as thematic and lore adjacent as possible. Skimpy is fine if it fits the lore and setting, like it did with Age of Conan, and it's equal for all.

Are we cool?

Personally, I think the Conan aesthetic is badass and could fit into most MMORPGs well.

Notice the different poses? Classic power pose of Conan that is believable at least, vs. super fucking weird "spreading my legs" squat-pose by the woman signalling something different, and that no one sane would do IRL. That is a classic example of what I was talking about earlier.

You already linked two barbarian sets which I think are fine. A few more like those achievable ingame would be cool. I didn't get them either.

Vhaeyne wrote: »

I just realized that I missed out on all the cool cosmetics...

Which racial lore would they fit though? Humans as depicted I suppose. Tulnar too perhaps?

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