Super-resource events.

Exploiting resources is generally a pretty boring affair in most mmos.

But what if we took it next level?

What if not all resources were easy to exploit as a solo player?

What if some resources could only be exploited by groups of players working together to run a relatively lentghy opperation which also alters other players of the opperation?

For example, let's say certain segments of random underground tunnels/mountain tunnels could spawn Mines? That could only be exploited, for example, by a team of players each with his own profession?

For example

- 10 miners to actually exploit the precious metals as the event is ongoing
- 2 lumberjacks to clear out the corrupt roots so that the event can go on and time isnt wasted
- 2 builder to reinforce the mine shafts so they dont collapse during the event, killing miners and slowing progress
- 1 scribe belonging to a certain specific religion to make holy scrolls to tormented spirits of dead miners don't spawn to attack miners and slow down progress.
- 1 alchemist to make potions against toxic mold so miners dont get debuffed etc.

And players would have to prepare in advance, to bring the right amount of lumber to reinforce the mine shafts, the right types of ink and paper for the right wards, the correct type of lumberjack to fight a certain type of plant roots, etc

When the event would be initiated by a group of players, an altert would be made by the mine so other groups of players would know about whats going on, leading to fights between groups of friends/allies over the resource point.

At the end of the event, the gathered resources would be put in a large box and will only be collectable after 10 minutes for example. Another area altert would be put out, allerting other groups of players of the status of the event. Anyone who channels the box for 20 seconds without being attacked can claim the box, after said 10 minutes, and take the resources gathered during the event. So it will be a PvEvP event.

Many more examples of such events could exist.

Corrupt Yggdrasil (event where a huge corrupt tree can be cut).

Putrid Dragon (event where a huge dragon died of natural causes and can be skinned)

Astral Event that can only be witnessed from one mountain top (event where scribes can make super-scrolls to help in Sieges, Raids, etc)

Event where a portal to another dimension opens (event where special creatures can be tamed by the group claiming the portal)

etc

I would love such a system implemented into the game becaus it would

1. It would give players another reason to periodically go out there in the world and explore it.
2. It would give players another reason to be more sociable.
3. It would lead to more world pvp.
4. It would make professions more relevant.

etc

As far as I'm aware (haven't played that many mmos to be honest) no other mmo does anything like that.

I would love to see Ashes take old-school mmo elements and take them to the next level, to do well.

What do you guys think ?

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neuroguy

Ironhope wrote: »

Did they say that explicitly? Because there are a ton of looting systems.
Even if that's the case if your group was wiped on the boss and another one is camping it I doubt you will be able to even loot the boss unless you got a bubble.

Directly from the wiki:

Looting rights (also known as Loot tagging) is based on a tag and DPS (damage) system.
The first party to obtain a tag (on a mob or boss) will require approximately 40% or more of the total DPS to be granted looting rights.

Parties who do not have the first tag will be required to do more than approximately 60% of the total DPS to quality for looting rights.

So no actually, you can't camp out a party and just snipe the loot from under them. You can prevent them from looting by killing them and protecting the corpse but your opportunity for getting looting rights was at the beginning/during the fight not after/at the end.

Ironhope wrote: »

For the same reason you will try a caravan transport or to build a civilization (node) even tho a large group of strong combatants could just come and wipe it all and loot it all.

This is not at all the same thing. In your system, there is only 1 outcome outside of failure: someone completes the objective. Transporting goods is something you do for profit, you can choose any node, any resources or even to keep them in that node. Nodes are an even worse example, if you don't build up a node, it may get locked out of progression. Do you see the degrees of freedom that exists with these? Taking risks here makes sense because there are many possible outcomes (even without PvP) so you can try to achieve an outcome that without your risk, may not come about as many other outcomes are possible, and then PvP can come and mess up your plan but you know, AoC and all.
On the other hand the super resource event only has 1 degree of freedom so as a player, I don't have to worry about trying to push the outcome to my desired one. That means you are asking crafters to take on extra risk relative to vultures who just get a PvP group going, without gaining any increased probability at reward. So based on your own logic, why would you force some to take on more risk with equal chance at reward? Unless you make the super resource event variable also in its outcome (i.e. you get to choose if you mine limited platinum OR gold but not both) but that could cause disagreement with the party that is gathering, and adds a lot of other variables. The more sensible solution is to make the looting similar to the looting rights quoted from the wiki and have people loot whatever % they contribute (so those who take on the risk to do the crafting will get more reward). You do not need to further incentivize PvP by having a pot at the end for people to grab, the desire to contribute more to the crafting IS the incentive for PvP on its own as parties will try to kill each others' crafters and protect their own to get more of the loot at the end.

Ironhope

(quotes won't work for me again, I don't know why sometimes they refuse, I guess it might be the device I'm writing this from)

Okay, fair enough, so you can't come at the last moment to steal the kill but still you could wipe the group and camp the corpse until it disappears to grif the enemy group.

Looking at how group politics and backstab driven the game will be I'm ready to bet stuff like this will be a common occourance.

Regarding caravan risk. I mean, with caravans one group does the whole work of going out there in the world, gathering the valuables, putting them in a caravan for transport and then another predatorial group can just come and steal the valuables/part of them.

It's pretty much the same thing.

Regarding nodes, I mean, similarly, just as you could ignore a node and not even build it you could ignore a resource event and just not even get involved.

But that's not what I meant.

In the case of Nodes it's going to be a pretty huge investment from a group or another.

And all this investment can just get wiped by another group(s) just like that.
That's what I meant (sorry if I wasn't clear).

I agree with the suggestion that the defending group, the one doing all the professions work, should be given extra reward.

As for the risk involved, any group could just wait as well and see who blinks first.

I imagine that's how PvX open world instances will look like as well.

Several groups sitting at the enterance of an open world dungeon/raid waiting to see who risks going in first having the other group(s) behind their back.

Finally, isn't it the case with Ashes that you can't transport large amounts of materials yourself from A to B but need a caravan?
That's what I was evoking.

The event's nature in the given example is that a large amount of resources will be gathered.... so it will need to be transported via caravan/mules anyway (I don't even know why I gave the example with the ''big exposed box that needs defended via pvp for X minutes, since the caravan/multes trip is basically that).

So yes, I actually want to correct my example as well

Most events should end with a caravan full of resources claimed by a group leaving towards their node with PvP being a possibility like with all caravans.

neuroguy

tldr: I can accept your suggestion at the end.

Ironhope wrote: »

Okay, fair enough, so you can't come at the last moment to steal the kill but still you could wipe the group and camp the corpse until it disappears to grif the enemy group.

Not quite as a corpse run won't work the same as for example WoW (people spawn somewhere else and have to travel to their death location). But yes in principle you could block out an entire raid from looting or more realistically at least prevent the harvesting of the boss.

Ironhope wrote: »

Regarding caravan risk. I mean, with caravans one group does the whole work of going out there in the world, gathering the valuables, putting them in a caravan for transport and then another predatorial group can just come and steal the valuables/part of them.

It's pretty much the same thing.

Regarding nodes, I mean, similarly, just as you could ignore a node and not even build it you could ignore a resource event and just not even get involved.

My issue with this is what you address at the end but essentially in both these cases, you still have a default ownership that is earned by some merit but that may change hands through PvP. Critically though, those who earned it by merit don't ever lose 100% of their work, they can be looted for some % of it, never all (unless corruption blah blah). Not that PvP is some underhanded tactic, that's just the game but you know what I mean.

Ironhope wrote: »

So yes, I actually want to correct my example as well

Most events should end with a caravan full of resources claimed by a group leaving towards their node with PvP being a possibility like with all caravans.

That seems like a reasonable compromise, the caravan is claimed by one party already and the default outcome is they get all that loot. But otherwise, other players can attack and try to take some of that loot (and get bonus looting % if they did some of the crafting themselves or something like that). The original owning party will never lose 100% of their loot (should have some gauranteed reward for doing the most crafting and the PvP that was involved with it). That sounds reasonable and thematically appropriate although again, I think there would be sufficient PvP around the event without it but I wouldn't hate this either.

Ironhope

In the end I don't see why events can't be significantly different from eachothers in mechanics too, with the devs finding out what kind of event people like more based on practice, not to mention that diversity is a huge bonus by itself

Assuming that the devs are even reading this and intend to implement the idea of group-profession based content

Olli1992

I think we all would like to see something like this being added in one way or another. And i hope they do, so we can give feedback in A2 or b1

daveywavey

neuroguy wrote: »

Directly from the wiki:
Looting rights (also known as Loot tagging) is based on a tag and DPS (damage) system.
The first party to obtain a tag (on a mob or boss) will require approximately 40% or more of the total DPS to be granted looting rights.

Parties who do not have the first tag will be required to do more than approximately 60% of the total DPS to quality for looting rights.

I'd been wondering about this. So, what if there are three parties attacking the boss? The first gets 35%, the second gets 35%, and the third gets 30%. None of them get anything for killing the boss?

Is the only way to get anything to focus the third party first before killing the boss, and risk the second party leaving you to it to increase their damage percentage?

Ironhope

daveywavey wrote: »

I'd been wondering about this. So, what if there are three parties attacking the boss? The first gets 35%, the second gets 35%, and the third gets 30%. None of them get anything for killing the boss?

Is the only way to get anything to focus the third party first before killing the boss, and risk the second party leaving you to it to increase their damage percentage?

People are going to grief bosses anyway just for the sake of it/for politics, even if they get nothing in terms of loot.

So the % limit for getting loot is probably not going to even influence things as much.

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