Should your clan be able to see your trade skill levels?

Just a thought, in other games there are often shouts out for particular grade/level crafters etc. so wondering if it would be considered a valuable thing to have in the in-house guild menu that lists all guild members to have a table along side player name, level, rank level in the clan menu/screen and also show selective skill stats for others to see?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

CROW3

Meh - maybe they’re just private. I’d leave that up to the player and the guild to understand if it’s a fit issue. They can figure out what to do from there. Doesn’t need to be over-engineered.

akabear

If the max guild sizes were quite small and intimate then I would see limited need or want for such thing but considering the sheer size of guilds that are planned, I see only the hardcore members of a guild being identifiable for what skills they can do and a constant chat for help

Considering AOC will likely have greater inter-dependencies with players not able to undertake all crafts skills themselves and only select a limited number, I just put the question out there.

Perhaps as an alternative might be that players can flag themselves as available for X trade skill in the clan menu, what are thoughts on that?

Sioneva

Noaani wrote: »

AOCHype wrote: »

May I ask why you see it necessary to see everyone's skills? Especially considering you're in such a tight knit group.

Lets assume the game ends up having a system like what CROW3 above suggests - there is a toggle that defaults to yes.

If you are in a guild, and you switch that toggle to saying no, you are saying that you are not willing to help out people in the guild. You are purposefully obfuscating the assistance you could offer.

Being a successful crafter in Ashes is going to require running caravans. Running caravans is going to require many hands. I am not going to use the guild to help you run caravans if you are not willing to help the guild out by making things for those that want them made.

It then behooves any guild leader to ask the question, if you are not in the guild to get or receive assistance, why are you in the guild? You do not need assistance from the guild, and you are not assisting the guild.

Guild membership is finite, why waste it on such a person?

You still haven’t answered my question as to why you’d want it. And my proposed solution covers what you desire:

1.) Guilds themselves have a toggle-able requirement for seeing player stats. If you are in a guild that has this enabled, you can’t turn off the visibility.

2.) Guilds that don’t have it toggled, players have the option to toggle it or not. In addition, they have tiered visibility. Ie ). Only X rank members can see it, not Y

In the end, such a solution would allow people like you to see all of peoples stats in your guild. And players can decide if they want to join into that or not. Why would you be opposed to such a solution?

SirChancelot

This was one of the things I would use the notes function for on my social list
Noting that they are a good healer, or max level enchanting or whatever... As long as that kind of function exists I would be happy.

Noaani

AOCHype wrote: »

Why would you be opposed to such a solution?

It creates division.

Opting out of a system like this is literally giving the middle finger to your own guild. It is saying "sure, I'm here, but fuck you all, I won't help you. I won't help you so hard, I am not even going to let you know what I am not going to help you do".

I've played many games where there has been no choice, your characters crafting and adventure class/level are just outright on display. In 20 years it has not caused a single issue - why is it an issue now?

Sioneva

Noaani wrote: »

AOCHype wrote: »

Why would you be opposed to such a solution?

It creates division.

Opting out of a system like this is literally giving the middle finger to your own guild. It is saying "sure, I'm here, but fuck you all, I won't help you. I won't help you so hard, I am not even going to let you know what I am not going to help you do".

I've played many games where there has been no choice, your characters crafting and adventure class/level are just outright on display. In 20 years it has not caused a single issue - why is it an issue now?

You haven’t answered any of my questions outside of “I don’t trust my guildmates”, and personally I don’t feel like that’s a good answer. Maybe others feel it’s adequate, I don’t.

Besides, the proposal I laid out only creates division in that people who want your system will join a guild like yours… others won’t. And some won’t care. Seems like wins all around. Is that even division?

I’ve been a part of games for 20 years where it was an option, or not even available. Why is it an issue now?

Anywho, I feel like I’ll just get the same answer of. “But it’s a big FU to guilds” so I’m probably done on this particular thread. If a guild is created with the toggle off, then it’s something they’re okay with and don’t think it’s a fuck you. Options man, they’re great.

Noaani

AOCHype wrote: »

y done on this particular thread. If a guild is created with the toggle off, then it’s something they’re okay with and don’t think it’s a fuck you. Options man, they’re great.

I have answered your question.

As I said, basically every MMO I have played has had this.

What that means is that as far as I am concerned, having it is the defacto state.

As such, I don't need to convince people why I would want it, people need to convince me (well, Intrepid) why they don't want it.

So, why do you wish to hide the ways in which you can help your guild out?

Sioneva

Noaani wrote: »

AOCHype wrote: »

y done on this particular thread. If a guild is created with the toggle off, then it’s something they’re okay with and don’t think it’s a fuck you. Options man, they’re great.

I have answered your question.

As I said, basically every MMO I have played has had this.

What that means is that as far as I am concerned, having it is the defacto state.

As such, I don't need to convince people why I would want it, people need to convince me (well, Intrepid) why they don't want it.

So, why do you wish to hide the ways in which you can help your guild out?

Every game I have played has either not broadcast your skills or given the option to hide them.

I have given you why I personally would rather not. Scroll up and read, why are you avoiding the question?

In addition, why are you acting like there’s still a problem if your guild can make it a requirement but another guild might choose not to? Are you afraid people would be less likely to join your guild? I thought we established you don’t want them.

I just don’t see how there’s an issue giving everyone what they want in this case.

Atama

In most MMORPGs I've played, your class and level (if the game has such things) are put on the roster, and rank in the guild, and last time you logged in. And that's it. I don't recall playing a game where more detail is made available. Sometimes a game will have a "note" field where you can add details, and it's not unusual to say something like, "Max level weaponsmith, let me know if you need help."

I don't see a problem with having this info be available to guild members, but since that's not the norm I don't see why it's necessary either.

Noaani

AOCHype wrote: »

Every game I have played has either not broadcast your skills or given the option to hide them.

Which games?

daveywavey

It's not hard for a guildie to just post in Guild Chat: "Is there anyone online who can craft X item?"

Given that the majority of guilds (not all, but most) will likely have more than one crafter able to craft particular items, it's easier to ask the group rather than one specific individual. It also gives the lower crafters the chance to assist the guild, rather than it only being up to the one with the highest crafting skill. I know there have been times in-game where one crafter has been in a raid and another one has stepped in to help out instead.

As JustVine said, communicate and interact with your guild!

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

As JustVine said, communicate and interact with your guild!

While I agree with this in principle, as I said just after, if you are in a guild that needs to obfuscate information in order to increase social interaction, you should probably not be in such a shit guild.

If the argument being made here is "just be in a good guild that tries to help each other out", then there is no argument against having some basic crafting information listed in the guild UI.

daveywavey

Noaani wrote: »

If the argument being made here is "just be in a good guild that tries to help each other out", then there is no argument against having some basic crafting information listed in the guild UI.

Absolutely, the last game like this I played, we had a special section on our guild forum where we each listed what we could craft. So, I've no problem with people knowing. The biggest issue is that people usually only ever go to the highest levelled crafter and ignore any others that would have been able to help them, and this puts extra pressure on that high level crafter. If they'd simply put a message in Guild Chat, then they're helped by whoever responds first. I've always found it quicker and simpler to just ask in chat.

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

If the argument being made here is "just be in a good guild that tries to help each other out", then there is no argument against having some basic crafting information listed in the guild UI.

Absolutely, the last game like this I played, we had a special section on our guild forum where we each listed what we could craft. So, I've no problem with people knowing. The biggest issue is that people usually only ever go to the highest levelled crafter and ignore any others that would have been able to help them, and this puts extra pressure on that high level crafter. If they'd simply put a message in Guild Chat, then they're helped by whoever responds first. I've always found it quicker and simpler to just ask in chat.

While this is indeed a minor issue, it is easily resolved by just making it general guild policy to ask the lowest level crafter that is able to make an item first, and work up from there. Not everyone will be able to make every item (I assume), and not everyone will have the time, but with this as the general policy your guild has, having the information on the guild screen (and even better, able to sort the guild roster by crafting class and level) makes having a policy like this workable.

This is a good policy to have for many reasons. Not burdening the highest level crafter in the guild with everything being one, but spreading the work - and thus coin and experience - around is also a benefit to the guild.

I would have to imagine that trying to maintain a policy like this without that information freely available to everyone in the guild would just be a mammoth clusterfuck.

daveywavey

Orrrr, you could just ask in Guild Chat...?

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

Orrrr, you could just ask in Guild Chat...?

Sure you can, or you can spend a minute to work it out for yourself if the information is on hand.

An often overlooked part of being a good team member is in doing the things you can do by yourself. Get what team you have to help you out when you need it (creating the item, obtaining some materials), but do the parts that you can do that don't need assistance (working out which crafter to use, obtaining other materials) on your own.

A team member that is using team resources for things that shouldn't need those team resources is not a good team member.

daveywavey

Noaani wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

Orrrr, you could just ask in Guild Chat...?

Sure you can, or you can spend a minute to work it out for yourself if the information is on hand.

An often overlooked part of being a good team member is in doing the things you can do by yourself. Get what team you have to help you out when you need it (creating the item, obtaining some materials), but do the parts that you can do that don't need assistance (working out which crafter to use, obtaining other materials) on your own.

A team member that is using team resources for things that shouldn't need those team resources is not a good team member.

On the other hand, if most of the crafters are busy, the player needing the item will be messaging them all individually, interrupting raids, distracting other players from their pursuits, etc, just cos they're reading names from a list. If they shout out in Guild Chat, anyone who's available can step in, and those who are busy can leave it to those who aren't. If none are available, then one of them can give that player an idea of when they can expect help, rather than leaving them to continue messaging names from the list.

daveywavey

Don't get me wrong, it's not a feature I'd dislike, I'd just rather they spent their time on the more major parts of the game.

Noaani

daveywavey wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, it's not a feature I'd dislike, I'd just rather they spent their time on the more major parts of the game.

If I thought it would take an intern more than 20 minutes, I'd agree.

But that is literally all I would expect it to take to get the basic info on the guild UI.

daveywavey wrote: »

On the other hand, if most of the crafters are busy, the player needing the item will be messaging them all individually, interrupting raids, distracting other players from their pursuits, etc, just cos they're reading names from a list.

I mean, if we are going to assume the person in question is that dumb, we should probably add the fact that this person probably can't read anyway. I mean, guild UI's show the in game location of guild members (I have not seen a single game that does not do this), so the player wanting the item made has literally no excuse for this kind of behavior.

If they are dumb enough to do that, it is a function of the idiot, not the system.

McMackMuck

I don't see the need to automatically show anything from my character sheet to any other player. I'm disappointed that character level is shared - it would be better to just give a threat assessment due to level and gear disparity IMO. Players can ask me and I can communicate whichever version of the truth I choose. If I choose to tie myself up in a web of lies, then that is my choice (a bad choice IMO, but each to their own).

If my play time became dominated by gear crafting requests and peer pressure to be the "weapon monkey" (for example) then I would quickly resent the role. It has to be voluntary. Hardcore guilds may require screenshots, but Ashes (applying the same argument to both combat and crafting) has decided to move away from that number driven "DPS or GTFO" mentality for choosing team mates. You can still push for competitive builds through empirical evidence. i.e. You don't need to know what my crafting stats are - ask me to do something to see how reliable, responsive and capable I am. How refreshing to talk to someone instead of just checking their profile and using them like a NPC!

Crafting tasks that are arranged through the guild should be logged by the guild. This would give metrics on member activities, although Guild leaders should decide what it is shared.

Child Item