Explain to me how this game isn’t ruined by cosmetic MTX.

Someone needs to try their best and explain to me how this game isn’t already ruined by the introduction of LOADS of cosmetic MTX. The entire purpose of playing an MMO is the progression of your character both in terms of skill and power and also their armor and how they look. Please explain to me how buying the ability to look cool doesn’t change the fundamental gameplay and incentive of playing this game? I would LOVE to pay a box cost and sub to never have a single MTX in the game. WoW was the most popular and successful mmo of all time for over a decade without ever having cosmetic MTX. Now they do but explain to me why this game needs to have a sub and cosmetic MTX. It completely ruins the game for me. There is zero incentive for me to play a game where I know you can just buy the ability to look good and there is zero prestige or work associated with looking good. Don’t give me the reasons why you claim they need MTX to develop the game. That’s BS. The sub fee more than pays for the game and the continued development. If they had box price the preorders would pay for the initial development and the launch and expansions and sub would make ridiculous money. All without ruining the core gameplay loop. Instead I now consider this to be on the same tier as Fortnite, BDO, and basically any other sort of low tier lowest common denominator slop in the gaming feeding trough. Cosmetic MTX ruin video games ESPECIALLY MMOs. Not to mention it entices the devs to make the best looking things as purchasable so you spend money meanwhile your character in game will find one or two armor visuals the entire leveling experience because they’ve all been locked behind a paywall. You can claim “oh no no Steve said there will be tons of visual diversity in game not just through the cash shop!” To which I would say BS, this game is doing what every single other game does. The devs decry pay to win MTX and say “this game will never be pay to win!” And you all gobble it up meanwhile they are bending you over backwards with cosmetic MTX which affect gameplay just as much as pay to win.

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MybroViajero

Pyronus wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

I am unsure why you think there should be any detail at all on Intrepids operating expenses.

Because for a game and studio that listens to the community very closely, and is also very transparent about it's choices and direction, it seems odd that there is a lack of info and transparency about the cash shop , which the community didnt ask for in the first place and uses practices that raise questionmarks.

when something is so simple to understand there is no need to ask questions, and believe me over the years there have been hundreds of questions .

There are videos about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcPt_g8iMWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdwPUu44zA&t=388s

the community does not ask questions about it , are you sure about that ?

Pyronus

Transparency is about "why". Saying it's been there since the start is not an answer to "why" it's there, but to "how long" it's been there. And I'm talking about the MMO community as a whole, who I dont think ever asked for cash shops in any pre-release MMO ever.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought this up in the first place and just wait it out and play when its ready, as Steven suggested for people who are skeptical. I'll rest my case, as I dont think its a good thing either to have this thread bumped up all the time. Im happy to discuss further in private messages though!

One more thing I want to get off my chest: I dont think at all this game will be a scam, it looks amazing and I love how forthcoming the studio is. I have my skepticisms but in general I am very excited for this. The only thing I have doubts about is the existence of a cash shop pre-release in the first place, secondly the way it's set up, and finally the lack of transparency on its existence, considering how transparent the studio has been about basically everything else.

MybroViajero

Pyronus wrote: »

Transparency is about "why". Saying it's been there since the start is not an answer to "why" it's there, but to "how long" it's been there. And I'm talking about the MMO community as a whole, who I dont think ever asked for cash shops in any pre-release MMO ever.

Maybe I shouldn't have brought this up in the first place and just wait it out and play when its ready, as Steven suggested for people who are skeptical. I'll rest my case, as I dont think its a good thing either to have this thread bumped up all the time. Im happy to discuss further in private messages though!

One more thing I want to get off my chest: I dont think at all this game will be a scam, it looks amazing and I love how forthcoming the studio is. I have my skepticisms but in general I am very excited for this. The only thing I have doubts about is the existence of a cash shop pre-release in the first place, secondly the way it's set up, and finally the lack of transparency on its existence, considering how transparent the studio has been about basically everything else.

I understand the skepticism, it is logical when in this genre we have been beaten so much, although I particularly believe in the AoC project, I can also understand your point of view.

Thanks for the doubts and skepticism, it is always good to have the points of view of each side to improve.

I would particularly expect how the result of the movements is and how Intrepid is going to propose it, because honestly we are only talking about "possibilities".

Pyronus

Thank you @MybroViajero for linking those videos. Thats exactly the kind of insights I was looking for but havent found myself. Also I wasn't assuming there were no questions being asked about this, my bad if I came across that way.

The 2nd video basically sums up all my worries about the way the current cash shop is set up. It makes someone who isnt invested yet, nor a costumer, skeptical.

Atama

Pyronus wrote: »

Transparency is about "why". Saying it's been there since the start is not an answer to "why" it's there, but to "how long" it's been there.

It’s an answer to this, though:

Pyronus wrote: »

Because for a game and studio that listens to the community very closely, and is also very transparent about it's choices and direction, it seems odd that there is a lack of info and transparency about the cash shop , which the community didnt ask for in the first place and uses practices that raise questionmarks.

The community knew about it from the beginning. If people had a problem with it, then they wouldn’t have supported the game so heavily. It’s the same answer given to people who gripe about open world PvP; it has always been a part of the game and was advertised as such from the start.

It’s like ordering French onion soup and then grumbling about how you never asked for onions. Then why’d you order that soup?

Noaani

Pyronus wrote: »

Transparency is about "why".

Intrepid have addressed this.

Because a $15 a month subscription is not enough to run an MMO by itself.

They have the option to either add a box cost, which increases the barrier to entry for the game, or increase the subscription, which also increases the barrier to entry.

So, they opted for a cosmetic only cash shop.

Atama

I dug up a quote from Steven himself:

”Because we are a non-box purchase game, meaning there is no box price to play Ashes of Creation, it is only a subscription; and that's beneficial because it reduces the barrier of entry and we want a high population obviously; but at the same time one of the ways we augment the revenue flows to sustain constant updates and new chapter releases and additional content within the game is through a cosmetic-only marketplace; and that means absolutely no pay-to-win whatsoever; and that will be adhered to forever.”

So yes, one purpose of the optional cosmetic shop is to make it so you aren’t forced to pay a “box cost” or pay for expansions. Folks who choose to pay for cosmetics will fund that. If you don’t want to spend money on cosmetics and instead use what you earn in game, awesome, go for it. Other players will bear that cost.

Pyronus

Guys, I appreciate these posts but I have zero probs with a cash shop post release. This is not about the cosmetics themselves either. It's about a worry that Intrepid is not telling us something about the funding of the project. I feel like I'm repeating myself but I think I've also been pretty clear. So I just want to rest the subject if you don't mind.

Atama

Pyronus wrote: »

Guys, I appreciate these posts but I have zero probs with a cash shop post release. This is not about the cosmetics themselves either. It's about a worry that Intrepid is not telling us something about the funding of the project. I feel like I'm repeating myself but I think I've also been pretty clear. So I just want to rest the subject if you don't mind.

Sure, they’re not going to lay out how every dollar is spent (nor should they), but there’s a lot of information on how the money is spent in a general way and why their financial model is set up the way it is. We’re just providing you the info that’s out there. If that doesn’t satisfy your concerns there’s nothing else the community can do for you.

The next best thing you can do if you continue to have concerns is keep an eye on the forums for announcements about the next live stream and see if you can get your question in that way. A lot of the info we have comes from answers in those presentations. Make sure you’re specific in your question to try to get the best answer. There’s no guarantee your question will get included, since they have a finite amount of time for them and specific topics they need to cover, but it’s worth a try.

Noaani

Pyronus wrote: »

It's about a worry that Intrepid is not telling us something about the funding of the project.

Steven has said that the game is fully funded to launch (out of his pocket), and that he really doesn't mind if people don't buy cosmetics.

He has said the cosmetics and packs going up for sale are to show support for the game, primarily.

If you are not happy with that, do as Steven suggested and just don't purchase anything. They really don't mind.

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