Environmental hazards: gating in MMOs

I have always found that gating, when done well, can be a huge motivator for me to play a game more or better. The best example of this I can think of is in old school runescape where certain quests (which were themselves gated by skill checks and pre-requisite quests) unlocked entire areas and mechanics. To feel like your progress and achievements made the world a bigger place and a bigger playground for you to play in was deeply satisfying. Most other games accomplish this by zone level. In vanilla WoW, I was excited to level up to see new zones like winterspring and the searing gorge that I sometimes would fly over in my flight paths.

In AoC, there is much less of a sense of gating for the biomes. You could in principle waltz to any biome at any time and know that at least there will be areas (i.e. near the roads) that will be safe for even a lvl 1 player. Seeing a volcano looming in the distance that you could visit is cool, but to be able to just walk to it/up it whenever takes away the possibility of building up anticipation and the mystery of a biome.

I propose that AoC could take advantage of environmental hazards to gate biomes and add a sense of preparation that will make exploration of new biomes exciting and rewarding. I do not propose any survival-game mechanic, just a simple gear check: the player could have an item slot dedicated to dealing with environmental hazards with no combat stat benefit (like a second cloak slot), that could allow for safe traversal of a particular biome type. Each biome would have just this one item to gate its entry without some repetitive loop and roads + the node settlement itself would be exempt from any environmental hazard impact. Furthermore, having an appropriate mount type would exempt the player from any hazard debuff during mounted movement through the respective biome.

The cloak for each biome could have 3 tiers. Tier1 for general zone exploration, tier2 for dungeon access and tier3 for raid/special area access. The access to the first tier of cloak could be as trivial as trading 10 hides of a plentiful mob in the biome to an existing NPC at the settlement (even lvl 1 settlement) or could be crafted by players for super cheap. This should be with the exception of the very first cloak that would be given to you at the divine gate (you can choose which biome cloak) so players can go where they want initially without being delayed. Tier 2/3 cloaks would require some biome specific resources that could either be bought or collected by the player and again, either crafted by players or by some NPC in the node (or the NPC could teach the blueprint). Of course tier 2/3 cloaks would only be acquired at node levels that spawn dungeons, raids or special world boss areas. T3 cloaks should only be required for high end raiding.

This makes the environmental hazard mechanic also act as a sort of 'attunement' mechanic. This attunement would have some nice side effects for the player-base and the world. It will specialize guilds and groups for their specific biome (early on in the game, before everyone eventually gets every hazard cloak). Similarly, it gives gatherers more identity as they may gather from areas not accessible by every player. It also helps put some minimal cost for zerging efforts. Lastly, it could easily be used as an actual attunement mechanic and prevent massive cluster-fucks of players of all levels interfering with efforts to take down a world boss. If only players with correct T3 cloaks can access the area with the world boss, it will be a much more focused contest between a few guilds fighting for the world boss while other guilds/players will be trying to earn their T3 cloaks or providing support around this special hazard zone (e.g. if players die in the T3 zone they would spawn outside so mercenaries could still be hired to slow down these players from getting back into the T3 zone).

These anti-hazard cloaks could have their own space to avoid taking up inventory (like the keychain in vanilla WoW) and could be freely switched between to match the hazard at hand. The developers would also have a few variables to play around with to match the desired effect. For example they could be bind on pickup to avoid buying/selling of them. They could have increasing costs to earn as you own more cloak types making it a bit more effortful to gain access to more and more biomes (but still very attainable).

The actual consequence of the hazard could be reduced movement speed and combat effectiveness (should be quite a hefty debuff). It should allow players to kill single mobs of the type required for the materials to get the T1 cloak but would provide a huge disadvantage fighting stronger mobs/elites or in PvP. To avoid this being annoying for world travel, roads would be free of this hazard so players could pass through the zone just fine and with a bit more investment, you could own an appropriate mount to just run through the zone ignoring roads if they please. For example scaly reptile mounts would allow safe passage in jungles, wooly mounts in frozen biomes etc.

Lastly, there is some forum post about using cloaks for camouflage (which imo should include reducing mob agro radius in the matching biome) and other fun RP stuff that this would pair well with.

Anyways, this hazard system would make it exciting to explore and travel to new biomes with a sense of preparation and progress without tedium. It will have no huge impact in preventing certain nodes from being competitive even early on in the server's life and specialize players early without impacting the accessibility of the world much in the long run.

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Comments

Boanergese

I don't think anyone wants to get fire gear in order to run Molten Core. Cloaks are for appearance. Not hiding your hit points, not camouflage, not to help you leap buildings with a single bound. I am not interested in path finder achievement for mount. Thank you, Blizzard. Just let us play the game. The nodes will be time gated because it will take for them to develop. The economy will be player driven.

bloodprophet

Not sure how this would look at launch when all nodes will be level 0 and need to be leveled.
Should some of the nodes require special gear or stats to enter? I would hope not.
That is not to say that maybe later some gear may or may not offer bonuses in certain biomes.

Jahlon

While this idea is good for a survival game, I think you are trying to bring too much survival-esque stuff into an MMORPG.

neuroguy

Boanergese wrote: »

I don't think anyone wants to get fire gear in order to run Molten Core. Cloaks are for appearance. Not hiding your hit points, not camouflage, not to help you leap buildings with a single bound. I am not interested in path finder achievement for mount. Thank you, Blizzard. Just let us play the game. The nodes will be time gated because it will take for them to develop. The economy will be player driven.

I think I get your concern (also ignore the other cloak forum post haha it was a peripheral point anyways). But it's not meant to be anything as tedious and annoying as 'fire resist gear for MC'. It's meant to be more like a short quest chain to get access to content in the same place you're spending your time in anyways.
Nodes are not at all gated in their geography. The content behind the node is gated by node lvl yes, but nothing prevents you from running across the world traversing all the biomes as there will be low lvl content in all nodes, whether they are an encampment or metropolis.

bloodprophet wrote: »

Not sure how this would look at launch when all nodes will be level 0 and need to be leveled.
Should some of the nodes require special gear or stats to enter? I would hope not.
That is not to say that maybe later some gear may or may not offer bonuses in certain biomes.

Yeah that's a big concern. What I envision would have some form of 'hazard' for each biome, not just cold or hot ones. Like jungles could have bitting insects and swamps could have toxic fumes, it's all just thematic to serve the purpose of light gating. At the divine gate you could be given 1 cloak of your choice so players who already know which biome they want to be in can pick that one and players who don't can get the one for the biome immediately surrounding their divine gateway. The idea is for the Tier1 cloak (at least your first few) to be super accessible and easy to get so even if you change your mind on day 1 of servers, you would not be put far behind. This idea is a bit less about rewarding players for being in a biome with bonuses, and more about having some build up for exploring new biomes and content in said biomes.

Jahlon wrote: »

While this idea is good for a survival game, I think you are trying to bring too much survival-esque stuff into an MMORPG.

I think the only thing it shares with survival games is the name 'environmental hazard'. It does not require constant upkeep, it does not require new sets of gear, it does not take up inventory space or weight carry limit. It is akin to quests in old school runescape where you gain access to new areas by doing some quest. Maybe I did not articulate my idea well enough but I'm not sure which part of it sounded like a survival game, I'd love it if you could elaborate. I think from my perspective, MMORPGs are where gating is done best and most frequently. Attunements, quests, zone lvl requirements, dungeon lvl recommendations, these are all ways MMORPGs gate players. It can be done poorly like tedious quest lines to run raids, resist gear farms etc, or it can be done well with some meaningful & appropriately effortful quest to unlock content. How I see the hazards that I describe is just that: some quest you do to gain access to parts of the world that you did not have before.

Boanergese

I don't think there should be hazards, but I wouldn't mind if the game had attunement for end game content. World of Warcraft used to have attunement where you had to get the key to enter the raid or dungeon. Since doing a raid is optional it would not force others who don't want to raid to participate. People can still craft. People can still PVP. It might be interesting for naval combat if the owner of the boat had to have some kind of license in order to be the captain of the ship.

If you had to get some type of artifact before you were able to enter the dragon's lair that would be fine with me.

mcstackerson

In A1, there was an area around the fire dragon that would put a dot on you. To do the dragon, you needed to complete a quest that had you craft an item to negated the dot's effect. I believe they had a few other quests that gave you items to help deal with mobs in some areas.

I like these kinds of mechanics that you need something extra to counter an environment or monsters effect. Adds a little more character to the world for me. I also think mechanics like these are better since they are more horizontal in nature over the modern solution that is vertical and just requires users to hit ever increasing gear score levels.

Dygz

I expect there might be hazards.
Alpha One had bare bones environmental effects.
I think there were some acid pools where you would take damage if you waded through them.
Seems like there were only 30 or so mob types. There were places with tons of red mobs that I couldn't necessarily survive for long when I was Level 1. Even when I tried to stick to the roads.

neuroguy

Boanergese wrote: »

I don't think there should be hazards, but I wouldn't mind if the game had attunement for end game content. World of Warcraft used to have attunement where you had to get the key to enter the raid or dungeon. Since doing a raid is optional it would not force others who don't want to raid to participate. People can still craft. People can still PVP. It might be interesting for naval combat if the owner of the boat had to have some kind of license in order to be the captain of the ship.

If you had to get some type of artifact before you were able to enter the dragon's lair that would be fine with me.

I see, so I guess you don't like the ubiquity of the hazard system, but to use it as an attunement system would be fun for you. Fair.

neuroguy

mcstackerson wrote: »

In A1, there was an area around the fire dragon that would put a dot on you. To do the dragon, you needed to complete a quest that had you craft an item to negated the dot's effect. I believe they had a few other quests that gave you items to help deal with mobs in some areas.

I like these kinds of mechanics that you need something extra to counter an environment or monsters effect. Adds a little more character to the world for me. I also think mechanics like these are better since they are more horizontal in nature over the modern solution that is vertical and just requires users to hit ever increasing gear score levels.

Yeah so I was aware of the environmental hazards like the acid pool/river and the underrealm poison gas but this sounds very much in line with what I was thinking. I'm a bit more partial to this sort of mechanic for whole biomes because for me personally, 'unlocking' a new biome would be very exciting but even on a smaller scale like the examples above, I'd be very happy with. I think ultimately I just want to be exposed to some biome/area/part of the world and realize 'oh, I can't go there yet until I complete x y or z' so that when I do accomplish x y or z, I'll feel some sense of accomplishment and during that whole time my anticipation for experiencing this area and its content would be building. The fire dragon dot quest thing is exactly what I was hoping for, maybe just on a smaller scale :P thanks for letting me know about it!

Boanergese

neuroguy wrote: »

Boanergese wrote: »

I don't think there should be hazards, but I wouldn't mind if the game had attunement for end game content. World of Warcraft used to have attunement where you had to get the key to enter the raid or dungeon. Since doing a raid is optional it would not force others who don't want to raid to participate. People can still craft. People can still PVP. It might be interesting for naval combat if the owner of the boat had to have some kind of license in order to be the captain of the ship.

If you had to get some type of artifact before you were able to enter the dragon's lair that would be fine with me.

I see, so I guess you don't like the ubiquity of the hazard system, but to use it as an attunement system would be fun for you. Fair.

At level 10 I don't want to have to weave some furs in order to go into a winter biome is what I was trying to say. Although, from an RP perspective it would be interesting to require a person to wear certain clothes or lose health due to hyperthermia. I simply didn't want the general populace to be cut off from content. Just like I don't think we need a wagon with barrels of water to survive the desert. I know they mentioned that you would have to gather materials to craft the scroll to declare a siege on castles or nodes. So, I am fine with a one-time requirement for a player to have to attune to a boss or a cavern. I could see you go into a magical area and need knowledge from a book from a scribe or need a magical crystal for PVE. I am fine with a quest to deal with the fire dragon as mcstackerson mentioned. I just know it was a pain to have lots of fire resist gear for the tank for molten core. I didn't want 10 different cloaks for 10 different biomes. I have no problem with acid or poison being hazards on the ground I can avoid. I hate systems that gate progress.

JustVine

Boanergese wrote: »

neuroguy wrote: »

Boanergese wrote: »

I don't think there should be hazards, but I wouldn't mind if the game had attunement for end game content. World of Warcraft used to have attunement where you had to get the key to enter the raid or dungeon. Since doing a raid is optional it would not force others who don't want to raid to participate. People can still craft. People can still PVP. It might be interesting for naval combat if the owner of the boat had to have some kind of license in order to be the captain of the ship.

If you had to get some type of artifact before you were able to enter the dragon's lair that would be fine with me.

I see, so I guess you don't like the ubiquity of the hazard system, but to use it as an attunement system would be fun for you. Fair.

At level 10 I don't want to have to weave some furs in order to go into a winter biome is what I was trying to say..

Ideally I would hope you could buy my surplus of said fur if you didn't like weaving it.

Boanergese

Nerror

In alpha 1 we had something similar to this, but more boss specific.

In order to not die in the area where the big bad elder dragon of flame spawned, players had to do a quest line and get the materials to craft an emberstone talisman. With that talisman equipped you could survive in the area and fight the dragon. I think stuff like that is great.

I wouldn't want it just for entering a lava or frozen biome in general, but for certain elite/boss areas in those biomes I am totally cool with it. It's also cool if there are special gatherables in those areas, so gatherers have to get the talisman or other item through the quest. The talisman was tradable, so you could sell or give to alts or other players, but the quest line meant you only got one per character.

@Bardtic made a video showcasing the elder dragon of flame area and quest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQi6urF-H8g

neuroguy

Nerror wrote: »

In alpha 1 we had something similar to this, but more boss specific.

In order to not die in the area where the big bad elder dragon of flame spawned, players had to do a quest line and get the materials to craft an emberstone talisman. With that talisman equipped you could survive in the area and fight the dragon. I think stuff like that is great.

I wouldn't want it just for entering a lava or frozen biome in general, but for certain elite/boss areas in those biomes I am totally cool with it. It's also cool if there are special gatherables in those areas, so gatherers have to get the talisman or other item through the quest. The talisman was tradable, so you could sell or give to alts or other players, but the quest line meant you only got one per character.

@Bardtic made a video showcasing the elder dragon of flame area and quest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQi6urF-H8g

Hmm thanks for the video! So the item is to replace one of your gear to work and has its own stats and stuff, that suggests that the item only resolves this scenario so depending on how many of these quests there are, it may get a bit gimmicky and a lot of these items may exist. But I trust IS will do this right, it does indeed deliver the feel I was hoping for, I just hope it is on a slightly larger scale. I'd rather not be able to enter a cave without a ring than a single arena within which you can already see the boss. The suspense of the unknown in a cave with such a mechanic would be great!

Bardtic

neuroguy wrote: »

Nerror wrote: »

In alpha 1 we had something similar to this, but more boss specific.

In order to not die in the area where the big bad elder dragon of flame spawned, players had to do a quest line and get the materials to craft an emberstone talisman. With that talisman equipped you could survive in the area and fight the dragon. I think stuff like that is great.

I wouldn't want it just for entering a lava or frozen biome in general, but for certain elite/boss areas in those biomes I am totally cool with it. It's also cool if there are special gatherables in those areas, so gatherers have to get the talisman or other item through the quest. The talisman was tradable, so you could sell or give to alts or other players, but the quest line meant you only got one per character.

@Bardtic made a video showcasing the elder dragon of flame area and quest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQi6urF-H8g

Hmm thanks for the video! So the item is to replace one of your gear to work and has its own stats and stuff, that suggests that the item only resolves this scenario so depending on how many of these quests there are, it may get a bit gimmicky and a lot of these items may exist. But I trust IS will do this right, it does indeed deliver the feel I was hoping for, I just hope it is on a slightly larger scale. I'd rather not be able to enter a cave without a ring than a single arena within which you can already see the boss. The suspense of the unknown in a cave with such a mechanic would be great!

Glad you guys found my content useful!! And I do agree with you neuroguy, too many quests and items like this will get tedious. But its a balance because it was a sad day when they removed attunements from World of Warcraft. Make the game too easy or streamlined and you lose that sense of immersion.

neuroguy

Bardtic wrote: »

Glad you guys found my content useful!! And I do agree with you neuroguy, too many quests and items like this will get tedious. But its a balance because it was a sad day when they removed attunements from World of Warcraft. Make the game too easy or streamlined and you lose that sense of immersion.

Yeah attunements, especially as they were in tbc where it required group content to unlock further group content (e.g. heroics to unlock raids) were great. I was thinking that mechanically, the same system that could thematically achieve an attunement-like system could also be used in a more gating capacity as successfully implemented in old-school runescape. The issue with my idea is that it immediately somewhat restricts exploration to other biomes, but I still think the pieces to something fun are there. In any case, I'm glad IS is already thinking and implementing systems along this line as early as alpha1, I have faith it'll only get better from here.

RockHound

I personally feel that the only "Gating" needed is the level of the zone it's self. If I'm level 10 and I go walking into a lv50 zone, I expect to get my arse handed to me, quite unceremoniously I might add. I do think that a cautious individual should be able to stick to roads, and skirting around hazards should still be able to pass through that zone. If I roll an Orc, but my friend decides to roll a Dwarf, and we want to play together... one of us is running at lv2ish to the starter zone the other is in.

Happymeal2415

Rohkai wrote: »

I personally feel that the only "Gating" needed is the level of the zone it's self. If I'm level 10 and I go walking into a lv50 zone, I expect to get my arse handed to me, quite unceremoniously I might add. I do think that a cautious individual should be able to stick to roads, and skirting around hazards should still be able to pass through that zone. If I roll an Orc, but my friend decides to roll a Dwarf, and we want to play together... one of us is running at lv2ish to the starter zone the other is in.

There's not really zones in ashes though. There will be pockets of stuff and roaming things but no this is a level 10 zone. Aldo you can choose your starting area regardless of race so you and your buddy are g2g

Atama

Happymeal2415 wrote: »

Rohkai wrote: »

I personally feel that the only "Gating" needed is the level of the zone it's self. If I'm level 10 and I go walking into a lv50 zone, I expect to get my arse handed to me, quite unceremoniously I might add. I do think that a cautious individual should be able to stick to roads, and skirting around hazards should still be able to pass through that zone. If I roll an Orc, but my friend decides to roll a Dwarf, and we want to play together... one of us is running at lv2ish to the starter zone the other is in.

There's not really zones in ashes though. There will be pockets of stuff and roaming things but no this is a level 10 zone. Aldo you can choose your starting area regardless of race so you and your buddy are g2g

Yes and no, judging by Alpha 1 (which might not be indicative of what the final product will be like, but for sake of argument let's assume it is). As I ran around, I definitely got a sense of "I shouldn't be here until I get higher level". There were few clear boundary markers (aside from rivers or tree lines) so you're right, it's not like WoW where you know you're now in the Arathi Highlands. But you certainly can tell when you're in an area too strong for you.

And also, there were quest lines in Alpha 1 that acted as breadcrumbs and led you from one area to another. (Again, a disclaimer that it might have been a placeholder and the final game might not do that, I'm not sure.) But you absolutely got a sense of where you were supposed to go and where you weren't supposed to. It was a soft kind of gating but it was there.

For the most part, the farther you got from civilization, the more dangerous things were. Which is a pretty natural progression, better than being in one village surrounded by level 1 wolves and later going to another village surrounded by level 30 wolves. (I'd move my freaking house if I lived there!)

Caww

I'm not crazy about a "all zones kill" kinda setup but if they need it for some master plan I'll try it.

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