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Yay/Nay: Whaling in Naval Content?
Tyranthraxus
Member, Alpha Two
For the record, I'm *WAY* against whaling in *real life*. It may have fit humanity in the past, but it's an out-dated and un-needed practice in the modern world. Perhaps an exception for some indigenous tribes - but only because they literally use so much of a whale.
In the game, though?
I think it could fit, for the time-period/technological level of Verra. With resettlement, we're not really looking at a highly-industrialized civilization, and the amount of whaling Verra's to-be population would do would realistically be sustainable, and probably culturally appropriate. Whale blubber and caviar sound like appropriate crafting ingredients for things like food processing/crafting. Maybe I'm wrong, though....
Maybe we could just have whale-like creatures and call them something else? Would it be sending the wrong message?
In the game, though?
I think it could fit, for the time-period/technological level of Verra. With resettlement, we're not really looking at a highly-industrialized civilization, and the amount of whaling Verra's to-be population would do would realistically be sustainable, and probably culturally appropriate. Whale blubber and caviar sound like appropriate crafting ingredients for things like food processing/crafting. Maybe I'm wrong, though....
Maybe we could just have whale-like creatures and call them something else? Would it be sending the wrong message?
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Comments
Could lead to interesting content like a giant kraken getting revenge for all the whaling and is now destroying ships and causing tidal waves etc etc. 🤪
Whales could function as a kind of group oriented mob that takes some real effort to kill (an hour or so for a group of 8, perhaps), but when killed can be processed in to meat as a food component, blubber to render in to oil, baleen for making some clothing and maybe fishing line (perhaps just higher quality fishing line), bone for carving, tool making and perhaps even weapon making, ambergris as a potion ingredient, skin for - something, I'm sure.
I like it.
Let's get some of these guys, Verra style:
Investing or joining bigger fishing boats gives you access to larger/more sophisticated fishing equipment to access larger/different schools.
Ultimately for something like a whale, you could have a size-able fishing boat, maybe even as far as requiring groups where it's somewhat of a Fishing event with a more active involvement.
Another opportunity for pirates or opposition to try and disrupt your deep-sea fishing endeavours for their own gain.
YES
Sea monsters are okay, as long as they aren't like the BDO implementation where technically you, as a character, never really 'fight' them.
Otherwise they're just BDO again. An easy target for people to fight over, and not even fight over in interesting ways. You have to make them either really strong, or relatively unrewarding, for this to not happen (BDO handles it by making them impossible to seriously damage with regular methods).
Also, whales are generally much more social entities anyway so unless they change that too, and Verran whales are loners for some reason...
But I believe they have said there are creatures which require multiple boats to capture/kill a single sea creature. This I think will add to it!
Honestly, I get the idea, but you have a magical fantasy realm and your thought is "I've got to kill some whales." This should be avoided simply because the lack of imagination.
Develop some interesting content that is unique. Pair that with a fishing mechanic.
If this game only allows me to fish for salmon or bass, I will personally light a candle for the designers' soul. That level of complete laziness must mean that the most boring demonic possession has neutered the creativity of a group that can invent a wretched raffles but can't seem to manage a fish other than salmon bc water stuff is hard.
Blue whales generally swim alone. That is entirely missing the point.
We all (other than Japan and Norway) consider whaling to be bad because it has been illegal for most of our lives.
It has been illegal for most of our lives because we hunted most whale species down to numbers that were too low.
The idea wasn't to ban whaling, it was to discourage hunting any endangered species. Attributing an emption to just whales is borderline hypocritical.
If you are against whaling in a game, then you should be against hunting any form of lion, tiger, bear, monkey or tuna. Just as whales have some species that are endangered (not all whales are endangered), each of these groups also has members that are endangered.
While it's great to say that you want more interesting stuff, there is nothing at all wrong with also having the familiar.
I mean, we already know we have horses, mules, foxes and turtles as mounts - but we also have more fantastical mounts like the bonestrider.
- Deep thoughts by Jack Handey
This being said... ye, kinda feel bad when I got to kill tigers and wolves and stuff like that in games because I just love them so much in real life but at the end of the day it's a game.
I think you should have whales to kill as well as all sorts of sea monsters to kill as well.
We generally, as a species, feel ok killing other intelligent species as a means of survival. I personally dislike games where I have to kill intelligent things that aren't a threat to myself or my community. At the same time I can stomach games with huge populations of apex, because realistically speaking too many apex collapse their own population.
Whales generally help fishing, not inhibit. They are as beneficial to marine ecology as wolves are to terrestrial. The culture among Japanese fisheries is a false tribal aggression as they feel whales and dolphins compete for their fish.
So yeah, I have a bunch of reasons why I wouldn't be ok with attacking a whale for 'fun'. It'd be weird if they attack first, they just don't tend to in the wild. And even if they did, sharks and sea monsters have way more avenues for making them interesting to fight.
I could get behind a full pod adventuring party of whales trying to sack boats for the loot though. Whales/dolphins are thematically the closest thing in water to having bard abilities and bubble shaping summons. Whaling individual whales though... no thanks. It's like murdering a puppy to me, except its a multi-ton puppy that has the intelligence of a teenager.
Bring on the giant squid, pleisiosaurs, and icythiosaurs baby.
As someone who studied extensively to become a marine biologist you are just flatly wrong irt the squid being more social than literal podding organisms... They dont generally coordinate hunts or coordinate defenses unlike the large majority of dolphins and whale species. The most you'll get is territory disputes (something many animals of various intelligence exhibit.)
Your notes about counting and problem solving are either reffering to octopuses or cuttlefish btw which is not the same as a giant squid. If you have the study on hand for giant squid behavior and intelligence please do forward that to me. That would be a breakthrough read. You might be getting the communication capacity of squid confused with cuttlefish and octopuses, which as a whole are about as solitary as a generality as it gets. There are exceptions, such as the Humboldt squid (who's communication we understand very little about) but the exceptions are about as prevalent as the solitariness of whales. Meanwhile bottlenose dolphins and orcas have literal subcultures for different bubble blowing techniques and hunting strategies.
Also... did you just literally attack Indian culture as a whole based off some ignorant people? You might wanna check introspectively why you felt the need to do that. I know you like arguing with me but there is no need to drag the good people of India into your attempts to pick at my arguments.
I like playing a bit more seriously when it comes to morality considerations in video games. It's part of the fun for me. But I can respect your perspective of wanting to just turn off your brain and mindlessly hit some pixels.
Basically, what I take from what you are saying is that you are OK with attacking and killing one intelligent sea creature, because you are used to see it happening in fiction - yet you are not OK with fiction depicting the attack of another intelligent sea creature.
If that is incorrect, all you need to post in a reply is which part of it is incorrect.
While it is true that both cuttlefish and octopi are smarter than squid, it is not by much, and my comments were specific to squid.
All of them.
Not giant squid - there isn't any kind of research body on them as they were only first observed in the wild in 2004. However, since we are talkingabout all whales, I see no reason why we can't talk a out all squid.
In fact, since you wanted to lump dolphins in with whales and talk about cetaceans as a whole, I see no reason why I couldn't have talked about all cepholopods as a whole. I didn't, I was only talking about squid - but you are the one that wants to expand the groups we are talking about.
Seemingly, you want to either expand or shrink as you see fit, in fact. We are talking about whales, you want to include dolphins to further your point. Then we talk about the comparison to squid (all squid being analogous to all whales), and rather than expanding the group as you did with whales by adding dolphins, you want to shrink it.
I'm not sure how me pointing out a fact about India right now is me attacking their whole culture (which in itself is an ignorant statement). Likewise, you pointing out that India gave cetaceans the status of nun-human person is not the culture as a whole. In fact, the decision to do so only came about because various groups in India were building parks to display dolphin shows, and this was the easiest way to prevent that happening - and thus gain popularity for the government.
Like it or not, your comment about the status they granted whales and dolphins was a reflection of a government decision, not "Indian culture" (I use "" because of the ridiculousness of trying to lump all of the hundreds of different cultures in India in to "Indian culture). As such, I replied by pointing out another decision of the Indian government
Perhaps I should point out that the US considered companies to have basic human rights - which I assume means you are against economically disabling nodes in game?
'So yeah, I have a bunch of reasons why I wouldn't be ok with attacking a whale for 'fun'. It'd be weird if they attack first, they just don't tend to in the wild. And even if they did, sharks and sea monsters have way more avenues for making them interesting to fight.
I could get behind a full pod adventuring party of whales trying to sack boats for the loot though. Whales/dolphins are thematically the closest thing in water to having bard abilities and bubble shaping summons. Whaling individual whales though... no thanks. '
Except I never said they all did, what is it with people fabricating arguments others make right now?
I said their government holds that specific line. I assume you don't agree with your government on every issue. In fact, I even pointed out that the government in question wass censuring people that spoke out against it - which to anyone thinking logically would mean that I am outright saying that not all Indians believe it. If all Indians believed it, the government would have nothing to censure, would they?
Stop fabricating arguments and then debating against them. It makes you look stupid.