The potion launcher - should that technology exist?

In AoC apocalypse, there was a weapon called the potion launcher. Personally I dislike modern/semi modern weapons in MMO (like guns etc)

The potion granade launcher, is blurring the lines, but I feel that it does not fit into the game

What are your thoughts on potion granade launchers?

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Songcaller

China discovered gunpowder in the 9th century ce. Although, I do believe it was first used in fireworks. I'm not sure how they made gunpowder when they sought the elixir of life.

Tulima

I see a lot of discussion of what fits but no discussion of what would be fun to play with. IMO, at least for naval combat, potion launchers, cannons, or any type of larger armament(magical or otherwise) is necessary for the naval combat system to be good. Without any of those long-range weapon types, only boarding would be a viable tactic, thus creating land-based combat but on floating planks.

OPs question: The potion launcher - should that technology exist?
If it makes the game more fun - yes.

Geophysical Ninja

Noaani wrote: »

This is objectively incorrect.

Just to set some baselines, the period in question is from the 5th to the 15th centuries.

Greek fire was used in Europe starting from the 7th century. Gunpowder was not used (effectively) in Europe until the 13th century.

So there is a period of 500 years in Europe where Greek fire was a thing and gunpowder wasn't.

Any game set in Europe in that 500 year period would have Greek fire being a perfect fit, yet gunpowder would not.

As an aside, which game is it that we are talking about that is set in Europe in this time period? Kingdom Come perhaps? A new Total War game?

How is my single sentence incorrect? You literally state in this comment that the medieval period runs until the 15th century, and gunpowder was used in Europe during that time. So, I don't believe that "objectively" is the correct word choice here.

Notice that I did not specify a time period; this was intentional. The point is that, in my opinion (recall my first statement was an opinion), they are equally out of place. You can also rephrase this as they should be included in the game to the same extent (more or less). You may not agree, and that is fine. I have not argued for this position, either. I have simply stated an opinion.

If you want, I can clarify and provide a basis for that opinion, but I don't have the time at the moment. Perhaps, I will do so later, because there seems to be an issue with understanding what I was trying to communicate.

You and @Atama have basically made my argument for me, but it needs to be tied together a little tighter.

Ironhope

I think the potion launcher is more than great if done right.

As others have pointed out correctly, you actually did have such devices during the medieval period.

For naval combat, I almost think its a necessity to have cannons, guns, fire launchers, etc.

This being said, AOC has a really nice tolkien feel to it and I feel it could do well even without but still.

Generally I think diversity in terms of weapons and gear in general is a great thing to have in a game.

Atama

Ironhope wrote: »

IThis being said, AOC has a really nice tolkien feel to it and I feel it could do well even without but still.

In Tolkien’s world, magic is very rare. There are a half dozen wizards in the entire world. Most people who do magic have subtle effects.

On Verra, the Essence and Corruption infuse everything. Everyone you meet is brimming with magical power. Even down to animals and plants. It’s very far from Tolkien.

Potion launchers make no sense in a Tolkien setting because of magic’s rarity. In AoC, they’re logical.

Noaani

Geophysical Ninja wrote: »

How is my single sentence incorrect?

Imagine a game set in Europe in 1066.

Greek fire has been a thing for hundreds of years. It is as old a technology as the basic telescope is to us.

Yet gunpowder is simply not around.

As such, your single sentence of "Greek fire is just as out of place as gunpowder in the European medieval fantasy genre" is just untrue.

How can it not be untrue if there is 500 years in that period where Greek fire exists in the region, yet gunpowder does not?

Since you used the words "just as", this denotes equivalence. In terms of how much each of these two things are at home in the time period in question, there is straight up no equivalence.

Sure, gunpowder was around for 200 years of the time span in question, but Greek fire was around for over 700 years of that same time.

Thus, "just as" is objectively incorrect.

Unless you want to tell me that 200 years is the same thing as 700 years.

Songcaller

I do love Greek fire but the devs need a new name if they use the concept because to my knowledge Greece does not exist in Vera.

Atama

Neurath wrote: »

I do love Greek fire but the devs need a new name if they use the concept because to my knowledge Greece does not exist in Vera.

Greek fire is only mentioned here as a historical technology similar to what is in AoC.

There’s no Greek fire in this game, they are using magic potions.

Tulima

Atama wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I do love Greek fire but the devs need a new name if they use the concept because to my knowledge Greece does not exist in Vera.

Greek fire is only mentioned here as a historical technology similar to what is in AoC.

There’s no Greek fire in this game, they are using magic potions.

Steven has previously said that the potion launcher will be similar to gun powder but with an arcane feel to it. Never heard him compare it to greek fire.

Noaani

Tulima wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I do love Greek fire but the devs need a new name if they use the concept because to my knowledge Greece does not exist in Vera.

Greek fire is only mentioned here as a historical technology similar to what is in AoC.

There’s no Greek fire in this game, they are using magic potions.

Steven has previously said that the potion launcher will be similar to gun powder but with an arcane feel to it. Never heard him compare it to greek fire.

He didn't.

We did.

We can make all the comparisons we want.

Atama

Tulima wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

I do love Greek fire but the devs need a new name if they use the concept because to my knowledge Greece does not exist in Vera.

Greek fire is only mentioned here as a historical technology similar to what is in AoC.

There’s no Greek fire in this game, they are using magic potions.

Steven has previously said that the potion launcher will be similar to gun powder but with an arcane feel to it. Never heard him compare it to greek fire.

It will be launched from a cannon, so it’s like gunpowder in that sense. But the projectile will be potions, and you can launch different kinds. It will be using alchemy in the way that Greek fire used chemistry. That’s why the comparison was made.

The delivery will be nothing like Greek fire though, which was sprayed out in relatively short range like a flamethrower. The potions will be fired at great distance like a cannonball, except instead of a big metal ball it’s a magical splash of something that’ll do magic to you.

Tulima

Noaani wrote:

He didn't.

We did.

We can make all the comparisons we want.

Of course, you can.

And I can say it was a bad comparison. Until Atama clarified his position anyway.

Songcaller

You can have the Greek fire effect in different forms but only in fictional literature. Greek fire only means a substance which can't be extinguished. Of course, in terms of balance you can't really have overpowered fire ships. I'm not sure what effects we will have because a lot of arcane explosions would fuck a ship up quite quickly. If it takes too long to defeat a ship with arcane damage it should also be an option to board another ship though. In an ideal world we could ram another ship into sinking due to the collision system but I doubt it will be possible in AoC. I've drifted through theory, practice and fantasy. You would have to create a false Greek fire anyway because the last I heard no one knows how to make it. We got napalm instead.

Ironhope

Atama wrote: »

In Tolkien’s world, magic is very rare. There are a half dozen wizards in the entire world. Most people who do magic have subtle effects.

On Verra, the Essence and Corruption infuse everything. Everyone you meet is brimming with magical power. Even down to animals and plants. It’s very far from Tolkien.

I was talking about visual aspect.

-T0Mb-

No firearms or potion launchers please! I say yes for ballistas, catapults, trebuchets, bows, crossbows and magic.

Sunboy

Depends. If the technology is there, it will be more immersive if that sort of tech would find it’s way into other aspects of Verra (cooking, travel etc) but I’m leaning against for now because of simplicity sake. But done tasteful, sure.

JustVine

What about alchemically tipped arrows or crossbow bolts?

-T0Mb-

JustVine wrote: »

What about alchemically tipped arrows or crossbow bolts?

I would accept this. Unless players can modify arrows by the secondary archetype. It's not yet decided that do bows require arrows as ammo.

SirChancelot

JustVine wrote: »

What about alchemically tipped arrows or crossbow bolts?

That's kind of what I was picturing anyways

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