Monetization

I am really discouraged to hear that the monetization will be coming from cosmetics. Cosmetics are a big part of the immersion of an mmorpg for me, a long-time role player. Having to pay for cosmetics with real money takes player customization out of the game and makes me enjoy it less.
Player customization is one of the most important features of a game for me. I don't necessarily mean face sliders either! I mean collecting things in game that are unique and special to my character. Collection is a huge feature to me in any mmorpg, but I do not like to pay extra for it as it feels like the fun of playing the game...
Things like outfits, house items, pets, and mounts are what I am assuming is going to be monetized. I feel that this added art could be continuously compensated fairly through a monthly fee.
These things add to the experience of playing the game... like rare items, specialty clothing shops, achievement items, etc.
It gives more to do in the game itself when specialty cosmetic items are earned. A monthly subscription fee is something many mmo players are comfortable and willing to pay for an engaging game. I would be willing to pay more than the average for a game with consistent "free" cosmetics being added to collect!

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Iridianny

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Because cosmetics are purely optional ... they don't affect gameplay at all. There's no requirement for players to buy them and no competitive advantage.

This does affect some players. Many players find cosmetics to be important to their gameplay experience and would rather it not be monetized.

Iridianny

Asgerr wrote: »

You can't be that dense....

No need to be rude about this, it's just a discussion about a video game.

Asgerr wrote: »

To quote myself answering to you on a different thread:

Box price affects far more people, in that someone may not have 60 bucks to fork out up front for a game they might not like after a bit. Meanwhile with no box cost, you only pay 15 bucks one month and you get the choice to carry on or not depending on your enjoyment. You literally get to experience 4 months of the game for the price of a box-cost game.

Just because you're able to pay those 60 up front, doesn't mean everyone can. tAke eVeRyoNe iNtO aCcOunt, smh

Doesn't have to be $15 and $60 like WOW! There are tons of options. Higher monthly fees and smaller box price. Also, they could do a one week free trial to remove the entry barrier.

Asgerr wrote: »

As for P2W: it means that if you don't pay you can't compete and you can't progress. This hurts everyone. Because everyone is either left to leave the game or force to pay to actually enjoy the game.

Pay for cosmetics (P4C?) only asks that if you don't like what the gear you have looks like, and you like the look of a particular item in the cosmetic store, you can buy it. It affects literally no one else.

I am not advocating for p2w, but do you see how you felt and reacted when it was suggested? You assume that p4c doesn't affect anyone because you don't care and couldn't possibly see a different perspective from the way you play an mmorpg.

Asgerr wrote: »

If you can't handle seeing someone looking a little different from you, because their armor is white and you can't get the white version in game.... you have a whole different level of mental issues.

You are not forced to buy cosmetics to play and look good. You are if you try to enforce P2W. Which in your ideal world it would mean: 60€ for the game + 15€/month + P2W items.

Sounds like you're just someone that's unhappy that others may look better than you.... MAY!

This is not true. I could care less what other players look like. I am talking about what I enjoy in a game in regards to my character and how it feels a bit unfair to put the burden of monetization on players who enjoy collecting cosmetics. If you read my original post you may understand.

Noaani

George_Black wrote: »

You cant hide robe item with heavy cosmetic.

You can if you use full costumes. There are no restrictions for them.

tautau

Every time there is an 'anti-buy cosmetics' thread, I go to the store and buy some cosmetics.

Iridianny

George_Black wrote: »

I dont like cosmetics either. I prefer it the old way, when you'd see a knight in spectacular armor and know straight away he/she is high lv.

Yes! That's the perspective I am trying to offer. If many people feel this way, why can't we express it? We are the consumers, producers cater to us.

George_Black wrote: »

But come on.... It's 2022. You cant expect video games not to capitalize on cosmetics. Did yoy rly need to start such a topic?

Why can't it be discussed? It's 2022 and this game wants to be "a breath of fresh air" to mmorpgs. So perhaps they could consider doing something different and not put the burden of monetization on players who enjoy cosmetic collection as part of their game experience.

Iridianny

tautau wrote: »

Every time there is an 'anti-buy cosmetics' thread, I go to the store and buy some cosmetics.

Okay? I am simply offering a counter perspective to monetization, but it sure is interesting that it sparked you to spend money.

tautau

@Iridianny I admit I'm odd like that.

Geronimo

@tautau I have a similar problem...

Merek

Cosmetics are whatever and honestly, after the last stream, the in-game gear looks FAR better than anything they've put up for sale within the past year. If anything, they need a new person to be in charge of the art direction for them because it's horrible and because of that, I'd take a $25 monthly sub over the god awful cosmetics. It'd increase the bar of entry for the game by quite a bit, but at least the game will look better for it.

tautau wrote: »

Every time there is an 'anti-buy cosmetics' thread, I go to the store and buy some cosmetics.

I'd agree, if they were actually good.

Taleof2Cities

Iridianny wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Because cosmetics are purely optional ... they don't affect gameplay at all. There's no requirement for players to buy them and no competitive advantage.

This does affect some players. Many players find cosmetics to be important to their gameplay experience and would rather it not be monetized.

From a combat perspective it doesn't affect the gameplay experience though.

I don't see Steven changing a fundamental part of the game's revenue stream ... due to "gameplay experience" as it relates only to cosmetic appearance.

George_Black

Iridianny wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

I dont like cosmetics either. I prefer it the old way, when you'd see a knight in spectacular armor and know straight away he/she is high lv.

Yes! That's the perspective I am trying to offer. If many people feel this way, why can't we express it? We are the consumers, producers cater to us.

George_Black wrote: »

But come on.... It's 2022. You cant expect video games not to capitalize on cosmetics. Did yoy rly need to start such a topic?

Why can't it be discussed? It's 2022 and this game wants to be "a breath of fresh air" to mmorpgs. So perhaps they could consider doing something different and not put the burden of monetization on players who enjoy cosmetic collection as part of their game experience.

There are billions of ppl on this planet and unless you live in a nice, small town, you dont matter to anyone beyond your family and friends. Consumers of video games have 0 power. AoC wont die because of a cosmetic boycott.

And I was wrong about the full on cosmetics. But there are discussions about nameplate icons that show what armor the target uses, just like there are class icons in eso. Immedietly recognized class icons.
So it's not a gameplay issue.

-T0Mb-

I wrote this comment into another thread yesterday and I would like to post it here too.

I am against purchasable full body costumes, full armor skin sets and weapon skins but I would allow people to buy single piece cosmetics for armors. I don't mind if some one wants to use a little money to buy some little detailing for their armors. The main focus must be still kept in game achievable items.

Atama

The most elaborate cosmetics (what are called "legendary") can only be earned in-game and can't be purchased from the shop.

Yes, it is absolutely too late to get rid of the cosmetic shop. It's childish to ask for it at this point. It's a key part of the financial model of the game, and they've already sold years' worth of exclusive cosmetics that can no longer be acquired by anyone else in any other manner. They can't reverse that without defrauding customers.

Give up, you're asking for something unreasonable and unfeasible.

Iridianny

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

From a combat perspective it doesn't affect the gameplay experience though.

I don't see Steven changing a fundamental part of the game's revenue stream ... due to "gameplay experience" as it relates only to cosmetic appearance.

I don't think that is the point of this mmo is to be the best at combat skill, I am fairly sure there are many ways to progress, like just owning a tavern.

Iridianny

Atama wrote: »

The most elaborate cosmetics (what are called "legendary") can only be earned in-game and can't be purchased from the shop.

Yes, it is absolutely too late to get rid of the cosmetic shop. It's childish to ask for it at this point. It's a key part of the financial model of the game, and they've already sold years' worth of exclusive cosmetics that can no longer be acquired by anyone else in any other manner. They can't reverse that without defrauding customers.

Give up, you're asking for something unreasonable and unfeasible.

This is such a closed minded perspective. Things can change and are changing all the time... From my understanding, the game isn't out yet. Also, they are currently changing things and adding things with feedback as, the game isn't out yet.
I don't see how it would defraud people to not do a cash shop on full release and make those exclusive items special for being a part of the early development funding, which is essentially what is being done with it. People are purchasing cosmetics for a game that isn't released yet.
I don't think it's childish to post a counter position on monetization, I think it's childish to try and shut it down when it doesn't affect you.

Kovrm

No one cares that you have a problem with the cosmetic shop. They aren't going to remove it. If you still have a problem with it, even after all the information people have given and explained, then idk what to tell you.. Don't play it, perhaps?

I mean, if people spending their own money on a cosmetic somehow "ruins" your experience, then you have other problems. Besides, it's been stated MANY times that in-game earned gear will be on par with, and in most cases surpass real money cosmetics in quality.

May you always lose fights and battles against people with bought cosmetics. You earned it.

Iridianny

Kovrm wrote: »

I mean, if people spending their own money on a cosmetic somehow "ruins" your experience, then you have other problems.

The same thing could be said for pay to win. Would it bother you if there was pay to win? Why? How does other people achieving more than you affect your experience? They have the money to spend, so why not?
Actually, it doesn't really bother me that people pay for cosmetics unlike people being bothered by pay to win. I admire cool cosmetics and artist should be compensated.
You are missing my point completely and just want to add your two cents. It bothers me that the monetization of this mmo is being founded on burdening that specific part of the game instead of a higher monthly fee or a box price. Cash shops are bad for an mmo no matter what they offer.

Atama

Iridianny wrote: »

Kovrm wrote: »

I mean, if people spending their own money on a cosmetic somehow "ruins" your experience, then you have other problems.

The same thing could be said for pay to win. Would it bother you if there was pay to win? Why?

Because the game was founded from the beginning on the principle that there would never be pay to win. All of the people who pledged many thousands of dollars would be cheated.

You really don’t understand very much about this game, do you?

Franquito

I agree completely. I don't think anyone commenting on this thread has any sort of idea what a true MMORPG experience should be. All of you beside OP seem to only see games as these virtual accomplishment factories, where daddy Steven can give you all hard earned points without P2W but fail to see how the cosmetic model only forces P2W one of the four player types of an MMO. Anyone who has a slight grasp on how an MMO should be designed knows that you need to meet the needs of all four types of players.

Adding a cosmetic shop puts an unfair social pressure on the social player type to spend their money to look the coolest while they're roleplaying or socializing in the game. You are all so worried about having P2W affect your favorite aspect that you're all quick to forget about the socializers point of view.

Let's imagine a similar situation from the achievers perspective. There is a shop but all you can buy are achievements in game that you can't otherwise complete without spending your real world money. To the Socializer this doesn't matter at all and has no effect on the game they're playing. The killer player type doesn't care because they only want to kill other players and the explorers don't care as long as they don't have to pay to explore new areas.

Let's imagine it again from the explorers perspective, the cosmetic shop is now the Lands shop. It doesn't add any new gameplay but it does add massive lands to explore but you can find all the same materials in the non-paid for area. It doesn't achieve anything for your account besides giving you new places to visit. The only ones who would really care in this situation are the players who love to just explore games.

Let's now imagine one more time from the perspective of the killer player type. The cosmetic shop is now the Kill Shop. You can buy tokens that allow you to kill players and that's the only gameplay change, it only affects players who like to engage in PVP. The socializers don't care because they're not killing players, the achievers don't care as long as they don't have to kill players to achieve something and the explorers really could care less, in fact they'd sing it's praises because it means they'll less likely to get killed while exploring.

We can see that in all of these situations we've unfairly placed the P2W model on 1/4th of our playerbase.

It's true it's too late to change it for this game which is why I don't think this is the pinnacle of MMOs by any means.

Not thinking of Socializers gameplay decisions and just saying we can't have better is very closed minded.

The excuse that a box price and subscription makes the barrier of entry to high is really a cop out. Ashes could charge $100 entry + $30 subscription fee and they'd be perfectly fine. The fact that people can't stomach a slight price increase to not have a cash shop baffles me. Subscriptions have been $15/mo since 2004 while everything else has gone up in price. $30/mo is not a lot of money for someone with a fulltime job. People pay $200/mo for cable ffs.

There are plenty of other ways to allow players to try the game without paying the box price or the subscription, you guys just eat up the corporate bullshit though. Like actually letting them just try the game, if it's actually good then it will have no problem hooking them in the first few levels. I hate that argument that you have to play an MMO for 100+ hours to start to see the fun. That's just another cop out for poor game design.

This place is going to be just like the WoW forums but instead of a bunch of brainwashed blizzard shills it will be a bunch of unaccomplished losers who worship Steven and see him as some sort of God.

If you've already spent money on this game, that doesn't even have a release date, then you're already lost. That's like paying for a meal you can't eat for 5 years because the chef needs help funding his dream to build a kitchen first and then he will make all the meals, he promises, and it will be like the best meal you've ever eaten in your entire life.

Iridianny

Atama wrote: »

Because the game was founded from the beginning on the principle that there would never be pay to win. All of the people who pledged many thousands of dollars would be cheated.

You really don’t understand very much about this game, do you?

That doesn't answer my question at all... you seem confused.

I am asking why they don't like pay to win in general. I am trying to get some of you to look at a different perspective and see the similarities of why you don't like pay to win and others don't like pay for cosmetics.

Ever hear of Chronicles of Elyria? I understand that many of you are financially invested in a game that you can't even play yet, but that doesn't mean they will do everything they "promised" when you typed out your credit card number. A little childish to expect, don't you think?

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