I'd vote no for server transfers as I just don't see how they could handle the different progression, both story wise and content wise. Only way I'd think it could work is if they stripped the character of all gear, achievements and resources, which kind of makes it pointless as you could just reroll then.
The transfer would just end up being a paid level boost, which kind of makes it unfair to new players starting out there as you'd be max level.
No I'd say make server choice a permanent choice that you make and if you want to play on a different server just re-roll there.
Server mergers are a different thing though but I'll leave that up to Intrepid Studios to figure out if it's needed.
I do see how it could be seen as a paid level boost. That's actually pretty accurate. The main difference I see would be you actually earned your levels though. You spent 200 hours learning the game, that specific character, skills, rotations. I honestly don't see it being any more unfair then the position new players are already in starting out on a 2 year old server but I guess that's more of my opinion.. So I also see a difference between a level boost and a transfer with everything stripped away.
On the other hand, a dying server could gain more by being open to a one way transfer or merger.
While this may be true, it isn't really relevant to the topic of paid server transfers. It is a matter of what Intrepid will do with low population servers - and they have already said mergers are potentially on the table for this.
Reroll as in start from scratch from lvl 1 chars with nothing?
That's going to still happen but it will be far less likely as it's going to be a more difficult ''road'' than simply transfering over your characters.
So it's not going to completely remove the problem, it will just severely diminuish it which I think is great.
On the other hand, a dying server could gain more by being open to a one way transfer
Might still be a serious problem if a guy with super-gear transfers to the small-pop server where not even 15% of that gear was unlocked yet and wipes the floor withe veryone, ruining everybody's fun (except his own).
Or if the guy just comes with his inventories full of valuables.
Or if he levels his professions to max on a medium pop server where its very cheap and then transfers to the low pop one and just wipes the floor with everyone else on the trade market, ruining everybody's fun (except his own).
I still feel like a clean, straight ''no transfers'' is the solution.
Paired with leveling being well designed so it's a part of the gameplay you like going through, not something that feels like a chore.
That's going to still happen but it will be far less likely as it's going to be a more difficult ''road'' than simply transfering over your characters.
So it's not going to completely remove the problem, it will just severely diminuish it which I think is great.
I don't know. A guild (100+ members) migrating with a plan could create a lot more trouble be leveling fast and growing organically on a new server than coming fully leveled but with no house available to purchase, no node high enough for them to make use of, no content. They would have to bargain with and deal with everyone on the new server to integrate themselves. Their inventory supplies wouldn't last forever, they would be spent, and used, and sold, thus entering the server economy in one way or another.
I've never said a transfer would be a peaceful migration with a happy feast and hugs, only that it wouldn't be as terrible and catastrophic and most against it in this thread make it out to be.
People imagine that the rich and powerful will leave the server that made that possible in the first place for one poor and still in primitive development. That they will have a bursting inventory of rare and exquisite materials that they will sell for a high profit to people still at the stage of minting copper coins, when these materials are the riches themselves. More likely, the people transferring will be the ones seeking greener pastures. They will be the ones coming from a slow developing server wanting nothing more than an easier access to the goods you can provide.
You fear a powerful character will come and slaughter everyone with ease? So what? There are probably characters already on the server doing the same thing. They are the only ones screwed in that transfer, for anyone else it's the same old same. If you fear a new comer will ruin your fun, chances are you imagine yourself in the position of top dog with little competition from others. Most pro PvP players view themselves as the hunters, rarely as the preys. PvE focused ones have been the preys so many time they have a hard time (or little interest in the first place) to see themselves as otherwise.
What you people fear are players trolling and griefing others. You fear that it will be a significant purpose for wanting a server transfer. If transfers are allowed, any rules put it place should be to diminish these possibilities.
The lore reason is laughable too. Considering the main story of Ashes of Creation is people coming back from another world through portals. If the Tulnar welcomed you, you can do the same for the late comers who arrived from Sanctus having completed the "special training" you've skipped for an early access.
If transfers could be done freely on a daily/weekly basis we could see a group/guild of world hoppers spewing chaos and destruction ! In the grand creativity of people in general, they would probably call themselves "The Wild Hunt".
At least we'll be spared that
Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If transfers arrive on the new server bringing with them exactly what they bring when they arrive from Sanctus, that's perfect. Sure.
More likely, the people transferring will be the ones seeking greener pastures. They will be the ones coming from a slow developing server wanting nothing more than an easier access to the goods you can provide.
You would have all sorts of scenarios.
All sorts.
You would absolutely have super highly geared individuals and groups moving to underdeveloped servers to grief them.
I meant it as a general "you", not at you personally.
Sorry for the rude awakening, but open PvP isn't fair. That's why so many people hates it in the first place. People quite because of this BS.
I don't remember a victim of open PvP saying: "well, at least it was a home grown predator that got me". The only ones who should care about new comers are those with little opposition (and wanting it to remain so), for all the others it doesn't change much, they're dead anyway. They can deny it all they want, find excuses, plan to be there at some point, but for the majority there is always a bigger fish.
All of sorts of scenarios, you said. All this thread is about is only the worse ones, no matter how likely or unlikely they are to happen. They're the ones put forth to justify not having any kind of transfers. I already stated I don't care either way, I'm just providing counter points, because none are provided. I only see people pointing a shadowy threats and say "hey, it's not always that bad".
This will piss off more people than just not offering transfers would. It would be a bad decision to offer transfers with this as a condition.
I wouldn't be mad
And it would be better than nothing
If people don't like that, then make a new character?
You are a part of a discussion on it, and are aware of the reasons why restrictions may exist.
Most people are not a part of such conversations, however.
Most people will just see servertransfers and assume it is the same as every other game they have ever played. This is an assumption that they SHOULD make, and we need to work on the understanding that they will.
From there, if they see these restrictions, they will just be pissed off at them. No amount of explaining it will alter this fact.
This will piss off more people than just not offering transfers would. It would be a bad decision to offer transfers with this as a condition.
I wouldn't be mad
And it would be better than nothing
If people don't like that, then make a new character?
You are a part of a discussion on it, and are aware of the reasons why restrictions may exist.
Most people are not a part of such conversations, however.
Most people will just see servertransfers and assume it is the same as every other game they have ever played. This is an assumption that they SHOULD make, and we need to work on the understanding that they will.
From there, if they see these restrictions, they will just be pissed off at them. No amount of explaining it will alter this fact.
the only thing is this isn't like every other mmo people have played. Stands to reason there are going to be restrictions/differences in many different scenarios. Will people complain about needing the correct craftsman, and correct materials to repair gear. Prolly, but that doesn't mean you abort that feature. Just because every other game does something a certain way doesn't mean AoC needs to follow. Maybe no server transfers are what's best for the game. I just don't see people being that upset about a restricted transfer. I see it as a way to make both sides content. Pick your server like your going to be there forever, and if you do need to leave for a reason its very limiting so think carefully if its worth it or not.
This will piss off more people than just not offering transfers would. It would be a bad decision to offer transfers with this as a condition.
I wouldn't be mad
And it would be better than nothing
If people don't like that, then make a new character?
You are a part of a discussion on it, and are aware of the reasons why restrictions may exist.
Most people are not a part of such conversations, however.
Most people will just see servertransfers and assume it is the same as every other game they have ever played. This is an assumption that they SHOULD make, and we need to work on the understanding that they will.
From there, if they see these restrictions, they will just be pissed off at them. No amount of explaining it will alter this fact.
Okay so you're concern is people moving and not knowing that is a stipulation and then being pissed off when they've lost all their stuff...
That's fair, I can't argue that some people won't read and will assume.
WoW had a thing where you couldn't transfer if you had pending mail I feel like it would be easy to add something where you can't transfer a character if they have anything equipped. Make the player know that they're going to be transferring naked, that they can't bring their stuff... That they are transferring to another plane of Vera.
I have no problem with transfers not being allowed. With each server being its own little world instead of a cookie cutter, it makes sense to me that if you want on a different server then you are just going to have to reroll. The only transfer I would be okay with would be on with no goods, no gear, no gold. Basically a reroll with a level.
I have no idea what AoC intends to do concerning transfers. So, my advice would be that when the game goes live people need to choose their server with care.
This will piss off more people than just not offering transfers would. It would be a bad decision to offer transfers with this as a condition.
I wouldn't be mad
And it would be better than nothing
If people don't like that, then make a new character?
You are a part of a discussion on it, and are aware of the reasons why restrictions may exist.
Most people are not a part of such conversations, however.
Most people will just see servertransfers and assume it is the same as every other game they have ever played. This is an assumption that they SHOULD make, and we need to work on the understanding that they will.
From there, if they see these restrictions, they will just be pissed off at them. No amount of explaining it will alter this fact.
the only thing is this isn't like every other mmo people have played.
Yes, which is why the restrictions would be needed.
However, as I said, we are having a discussion on it, so those facts are readily apparent. Case in point, your OP didn't mention any of the specifics that Ashes design would necessitate.
So, before you partook in this discussion, it was obvious you were unaware of these specifics. Therefore, others that are not a part of such discussions (99% of players) would not be aware of these specifics either.
Again it comes back to it being the lesser of two evils for Intrepid. Not offering server transfers is better for them (or less bad for them) than offering server transfers and pissing off that 99% of players that want to transfer servers until they realize what it involves.
Okay so you're concern is people moving and not knowing that is a stipulation and then being pissed off when they've lost all their stuff...
That is a part of it, but still not all.
If people need to be naked before they can transfer, there will still be people that think those items will be in storage on their new server.
However, even those that realize they take no items with them would still be pissed off. They would look at transfers in other games and just assume Intrepid are either incapable or unwilling to offer a "full transfer" like other games offer.
There is literally no way for Intrepid to offer the service you are talking about and come out looking like anything other than an evil company just trying to take peoples money.
Okay so you're concern is people moving and not knowing that is a stipulation and then being pissed off when they've lost all their stuff...
That is a part of it, but still not all.
If people need to be naked before they can transfer, there will still be people that think those items will be in storage on their new server.
However, even those that realize they take no items with them would still be pissed off. They would look at transfers in other games and just assume Intrepid are either incapable or unwilling to offer a "full transfer" like other games offer.
There is literally no way for Intrepid to offer the service you are talking about and come out looking like anything other than an evil company just trying to take peoples money.
But ashes is a different game
It would make sense for it to be different compared to other games
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Which is why we expect there won't be server transfers.
Okay so you're concern is people moving and not knowing that is a stipulation and then being pissed off when they've lost all their stuff...
That is a part of it, but still not all.
If people need to be naked before they can transfer, there will still be people that think those items will be in storage on their new server.
However, even those that realize they take no items with them would still be pissed off. They would look at transfers in other games and just assume Intrepid are either incapable or unwilling to offer a "full transfer" like other games offer.
There is literally no way for Intrepid to offer the service you are talking about and come out looking like anything other than an evil company just trying to take peoples money.[/quote]
Regarding your last paragraph, I don't see it that way.
A solid reason clearly stated- and uncompromised on- would suffice. Not everyone will be happy (usually the entitled sort) but the core audience of AoC will understand and appreciate IS's recognition of the work already put into a server's development by the original inhabitants.
How would they be viewed as greedy? You can't buy equipment from the Cosmetic store.
I agree with a character transferring with nothing other than their loincloth (and proposed the same thing), but I would take it a step further and delevel the character by 10-20% as well. This would show the serious nature of a transfer. It could be billed as a 'rebirth' cost and stay in the lore of AoC.
If transfers arrive on the new server bringing with them exactly what they bring when they arrive from Sanctus, that's perfect. Sure.
Probably too harsh, but to build in that line of thoughts... There could be basic gear sets for those who transfer. Basic for their tier, just enough to be operational at their level, you know, so they do not to have to fist fight low level mobs naked or be forced to beg for days.
Again it comes back to it being the lesser of two evils for Intrepid. Not offering server transfers is better for them (or less bad for them) than offering server transfers and pissing off that 99% of players that want to transfer servers until they realize what it involves.
That's really the bottom of it. What's better for the game? Could a transfer prevent a customer from leaving for good because they don't want to reroll? What are the conditions to make it acceptable to the other players? Because if allowing transfers piss other players enough that they leave it's not better. As much as I've said there are legitimate reasons for transfers, and not only horror stories, it's still possible that no condition will make it acceptable to the audience. In that case, no transfers at all would be the best course.
If transfers arrive on the new server bringing with them exactly what they bring when they arrive from Sanctus, that's perfect. Sure.
Probably too harsh, but to build in that line of thoughts... There could be basic gear sets for those who transfer. Basic for their tier, just enough to be operational at their level, you know, so they do not to have to fist fight low level mobs naked or be forced to beg for days.
Again it comes back to it being the lesser of two evils for Intrepid. Not offering server transfers is better for them (or less bad for them) than offering server transfers and pissing off that 99% of players that want to transfer servers until they realize what it involves.
That's really the bottom of it. What's better for the game? Could a transfer prevent a customer from leaving for good because they don't want to reroll? What are the conditions to make it acceptable to the other players? Because if allowing transfers piss other players enough that they leave it's not better. As much as I've said there are legitimate reasons for transfers, and not only horror stories, it's still possible that no condition will make it acceptable to the audience. In that case, no transfers at all would be the best course.
If someone doesn't want to reroll, this game might be for them!
Should also force a name change to transfer! MAKE 'EM PAY!
In all seriousness I think it should be allowed so desperate folks can have an option. It just has to an appropriate character cost (not talking about $ there).
A 'basic gear' starting set for a transfer is not a bad idea.
How would cosmetics earned on the other server work?
Earn them again?
Trade a newly earned cosmetic to unlock one from your old server?
Cooldown before you can use them?
What if its an event-tied cosmetic that hasn't happened in the new server?
Ugh..
A solid reason clearly stated- and uncompromised on- would suffice.
No it wouldn't.
You said only the character AFTER a discussion about it had taken place, that made it blatantly obvious to those in that discussion that any item at all being transferred over was simply not viable.
Most players wanting to transfer servers have not been in that conversation, and so won't have that understanding.
Most players will look to transfer and then do one of two things. They will see that stated reason you are talking about and get pissed off that Intrepid are offering transfers, but with such ridiculous conditions (in relation to other games, that is what they are). Or, they will not see the reasons, or the conditions, and will attempt to carry on with the transfer.
It is a simple fact that people will compare server transfers in Ashes to server transfers in other MMO's. There just isn't a way around it. If they can not offer a comparable service, they need to not offer the service.
Intrepid need to simply not offer server transfers until a point where they can offer them in a comparable manner to other MMO's without negatively affecting the individual economy of each server.
Most players will look to transfer and then do one of two things. They will see that stated reason you are talking about and get pissed off that Intrepid are offering transfers, but with such ridiculous conditions (in relation to other games, that is what they are). Or, they will not see the reasons, or the conditions, and will attempt to carry on with the transfer.
It is a simple fact that people will compare server transfers in Ashes to server transfers in other MMO's. There just isn't a way around it. If they can not offer a comparable service, they need to not offer the service.
Intrepid need to simply not offer server transfers until a point where they can offer them in a comparable manner to other MMO's without negatively affecting the individual economy of each server.
three ways, they will see the restrictions and decide its not worth it for them to transfer and stay on their server. Fixing your 2nd option I think is fairly easy. When you click transfer, have a box pop up where you have to type "Destroy all items". they will certainly go back and read. Your first one is slightly harder to fix but anyone who is going to get mad over the restrictions, would also be mad if their were no transfer at all so who cares.
Once again who cares if people compare AoC transfers to other games, AoC is its own game, its server transfers will never be comparable with other games and it doesn't need to be..
A solid reason clearly stated- and uncompromised on- would suffice.
No it wouldn't.
You said only the character AFTER a discussion about it had taken place, that made it blatantly obvious to those in that discussion that any item at all being transferred over was simply not viable.
Most players wanting to transfer servers have not been in that conversation, and so won't have that understanding.
Most players will look to transfer and then do one of two things. They will see that stated reason you are talking about and get pissed off that Intrepid are offering transfers, but with such ridiculous conditions (in relation to other games, that is what they are). Or, they will not see the reasons, or the conditions, and will attempt to carry on with the transfer.
It is a simple fact that people will compare server transfers in Ashes to server transfers in other MMO's. There just isn't a way around it. If they can not offer a comparable service, they need to not offer the service.
Intrepid need to simply not offer server transfers until a point where they can offer them in a comparable manner to other MMO's without negatively affecting the individual economy of each server.
Yes it would.
I think I said it 'during' the discussion, because we're still in that discussion. Yeah? /e nods enthusiastically
And you nailed it! The players 5 years from now wanting a server transfer will not have been a part of this discussion.
So they get pissed off? Boohoo cry on mommies lap.
You know a really good reason for this game not to be in lockstep with other games in the same genre?
Because AoC isn't interested in following in the long line of trash MMOs.
"This might not be the game for you" -Creative Director
Those that have the mental wherewithal to read the bold red conditions for the transfer AND continue, will be happily relocated to another server.
The OMG HOW DARE YOU WoW/Conan/EQclone DOESN'T DO THAT I'M GOING TO TELL TWITTER!!11 individual can go pound salt down a gopher hole.
When you click transfer, have a box pop up where you have to type "Destroy all items".
This won't work.
Look no further than LTT's recent Linux series. Someone with a solid tech background (more than you or I) bricked a computer by typing in the thing the computer asked him to type in.
This is a means of passing blame to others, not of making a good user experience.
It is untrue that people would get as mad about no transfer as they would with this restricted transfer. People fully understand not allowing server transfers, either permanently or for an limited time. This is a common and accepted aspect of MMO's.
Half arsed server transfers like are being talked about here are not common, and are not accepted.
This is why Intrepid have said they won't to start, but may open up transfers later on after the game has been live. They don't want to offer a system that is as bad as this to their players, even if a very small minority may be ok with it.
When you click transfer, have a box pop up where you have to type "Destroy all items".
This won't work.
Look no further than LTT's recent Linux series. Someone with a solid tech background (more than you or I) bricked a computer by typing in the thing the computer asked him to type in.
This is a means of passing blame to others, not of making a good user experience.
I don't have much idea about that type of stuff but it seems to have zero connection to my idea. I didn't want to spend hours researching it so I spent about 2 minutes. It sounds to me the guy was messing with stuff 99% of the population doesn't mess with. This particular guy ran a command, Linux didn't tell him to do it. Regardless, Linux is a operating system, not a in game feature and certainly not a type destroy to confirm. If this is the same thing your talking about, here's a quote.
So today me and a friend ran “rm -rf –no-preserve-root /” on a MSI Notebook because we wanted to get rid of the pretty bloated Arch installation. Of course we could have just formatted the root partition and reinstalled Arch. But instead we thought it would be fun seeing the GNOME installation die. We weren’t dumb enough to leave important partitions mounted. We unmounted everything except of root (/).
What I'm talking about is similar to WoWs delete item function(in game)when deleting anything of higher rarity. It has no more of a chance of bricking your computer then playing WoW does. It's not a way of passing blame to others, it is a way of stopping someone from making a mistake because they weren't paying attention, or were to lazy to read something. They say "oh crap, no I don't want to delete my legendary sword". If you type delete, yea it is your fault.
It is untrue that people would get as mad about no transfer as they would with this restricted transfer. People fully understand not allowing server transfers, either permanently or for an limited time. This is a common and accepted aspect of MMO's.
Half arsed server transfers like are being talked about here are not common, and are not accepted.
Sounds more like a opinion and your talking like its a fact. I do agree that people understand not allowing server transfers, but isn't that because the "norm" is do it whenever you want as long as you pay us 60 dollars. I believe transfers are not liked because there are no restrictions. They cause server problems. Especially with this type of game. Me and you just seem to disagree on this, that's fine.
This is why Intrepid have said they won't to start, but may open up transfers later on after the game has been live. They don't want to offer a system that is as bad as this to their players, even if a very small minority may be ok with it.
Once again it seems your making assumptions based on your own opinion. Yes they are holding off on allowing server transfers right away, once again that is perfectly fine. But not for the reason you state. Here is the only info I see about server transfer decisions from their sight. If you have seen more info directly from IS please share, its certainly possible I missed it.
Server transfers will not be possible initially. The developers intend to assess the impact on housing and other systems closer to launch
You also call it half assed but its not, its just a different design choice. Its not half assed if that is the way they want it to be. IMO I don't see them ever allowing "normal" server transfers like WoW. I don't see it being accepted or even possible with AoCs game design. I think its ether not going to be a feature, or its going to be restricted. Of course I could be wrong and they may release "normal" server transfers, but I personally don't want server transfers to be easy, with little to no penalty. I think that is bad for servers. Even though I see myself needing some form of server transfer down the line. It's possible to go against the "norm" and be looked at positively. I don't want unrestricted server transfers.
When you click transfer, have a box pop up where you have to type "Destroy all items".
This won't work.
Look no further than LTT's recent Linux series. Someone with a solid tech background (more than you or I) bricked a computer by typing in the thing the computer asked him to type in.
This is a means of passing blame to others, not of making a good user experience.
It is untrue that people would get as mad about no transfer as they would with this restricted transfer. People fully understand not allowing server transfers, either permanently or for an limited time. This is a common and accepted aspect of MMO's.
Half arsed server transfers like are being talked about here are not common, and are not accepted.
This is why Intrepid have said they won't to start, but may open up transfers later on after the game has been live. They don't want to offer a system that is as bad as this to their players, even if a very small minority may be ok with it.
This will work.
You seem to view people as generally stupid and demanding, and I agree with you, but at some point they are going to have to accept what is in front of them.
They might not like to pay for gas for their car... too bad. Get a bike.
They might not want to pay for optional cosmetics in the Cosmetic Shop. Too bad: you don't have too.
I know its a whiny and entitled and offend-o-rama generation, and apparently you do too. There is only so much that can be done to appease immature/entitled people.
There has to be a line that says THIS IS A LINE, CROSSING IT HAS CONSEQUENCES.
You say that people will be angrier with a transfer with restrictions versus no transfer. That's your emotional opinion but your laying it down like fact. It isn't.
I'm not saying people will be either happy or upset with restrictions, I am saying I feel they will appreciate at least the opportunity to move their character.
They are the guest on the new server. Existing players there should not be negatively impacted or have their efforts diluted by a newcomer.
This particular guy ran a command, Linux didn't tell him to do it.
Linux told him to run a specific command line in order to proceed. So he ran that command line.
This is relevant to what you said because you were saying that it would be a solution to essentially just get people to type in a command to delete all their gear. People will just see that they have a step they need to perform in order to do the thing they want to do, and will just do that step.
Your example of the delete function in WoW does not apply, as that is a protection to stop people deleting things accidently. Your suggestion may well be a perfectly fine way to make sure people don't accidently transfer servers in a game that offers that as a service.
You also call it half assed but its not, its just a different design choice.
But it isn't a design choice, it is a bunch of people on the forums whittling away at what a server transfer is until they are left with the most minute aspect of it (and have conveniently forgotten that even this has a perfectly applicable argument against - we may get back to it later on).
Intrepid have indeed talked about transfers more than the info on the wiki would suggest. I don't have links, because I am not your index. However, when they did talk about it, they talked about not wanting to mix up the economies of each server, and about not wanting people to be able to run and hide from their bad decisions on various servers - the things I said they have talked about.
You seem to view people as generally stupid and demanding, and I agree with you, but at some point they are going to have to accept what is in front of them.
They might not like to pay for gas for their car... too bad. Get a bike.
They might not want to pay for optional cosmetics in the Cosmetic Shop. Too bad: you don't have too.
I know its a whiny and entitled and offend-o-rama generation, and apparently you do too. There is only so much that can be done to appease immature/entitled people.
There has to be a line that says THIS IS A LINE, CROSSING IT HAS CONSEQUENCES.
I don't disagree with any of this.
All I am saying is that Intrepid - and server transfers in general - aren't who should be drawing that line.
They shouldn't be the ones seen to be offering half of a server transfer - they should either not offer them at all, or wait until the game is in a state where they can offer full transfers.
Even worse would be if they offered the half transfers being talked about here, and then one day decided that the game was in a state where full transfers were fine and so changed to that.Everyone that had bought a transfer up until that point would have very good reason to be pissed in Intrepid - and that is without the whole snowflake thing.
So, the best thing for Intrepid to do is to only offer transfers if and when the game is in a state where a full transfer can be offered with minimal negative effect - which is to say when all (or most) servers have had the economy normalize.
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RokoMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I plan to move to a different continent in a few years so. if ashes has released by then I would appreciate a way to at least take some of my progression with me to that continent's server.
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I do see how it could be seen as a paid level boost. That's actually pretty accurate. The main difference I see would be you actually earned your levels though. You spent 200 hours learning the game, that specific character, skills, rotations. I honestly don't see it being any more unfair then the position new players are already in starting out on a 2 year old server but I guess that's more of my opinion.. So I also see a difference between a level boost and a transfer with everything stripped away.
Reroll as in start from scratch from lvl 1 chars with nothing?
That's going to still happen but it will be far less likely as it's going to be a more difficult ''road'' than simply transfering over your characters.
So it's not going to completely remove the problem, it will just severely diminuish it which I think is great.
Might still be a serious problem if a guy with super-gear transfers to the small-pop server where not even 15% of that gear was unlocked yet and wipes the floor withe veryone, ruining everybody's fun (except his own).
Or if the guy just comes with his inventories full of valuables.
Or if he levels his professions to max on a medium pop server where its very cheap and then transfers to the low pop one and just wipes the floor with everyone else on the trade market, ruining everybody's fun (except his own).
I still feel like a clean, straight ''no transfers'' is the solution.
Paired with leveling being well designed so it's a part of the gameplay you like going through, not something that feels like a chore.
I wouldn't be mad
And it would be better than nothing
If people don't like that, then make a new character?
I don't know. A guild (100+ members) migrating with a plan could create a lot more trouble be leveling fast and growing organically on a new server than coming fully leveled but with no house available to purchase, no node high enough for them to make use of, no content. They would have to bargain with and deal with everyone on the new server to integrate themselves. Their inventory supplies wouldn't last forever, they would be spent, and used, and sold, thus entering the server economy in one way or another.
I've never said a transfer would be a peaceful migration with a happy feast and hugs, only that it wouldn't be as terrible and catastrophic and most against it in this thread make it out to be.
People imagine that the rich and powerful will leave the server that made that possible in the first place for one poor and still in primitive development. That they will have a bursting inventory of rare and exquisite materials that they will sell for a high profit to people still at the stage of minting copper coins, when these materials are the riches themselves. More likely, the people transferring will be the ones seeking greener pastures. They will be the ones coming from a slow developing server wanting nothing more than an easier access to the goods you can provide.
You fear a powerful character will come and slaughter everyone with ease? So what? There are probably characters already on the server doing the same thing. They are the only ones screwed in that transfer, for anyone else it's the same old same. If you fear a new comer will ruin your fun, chances are you imagine yourself in the position of top dog with little competition from others. Most pro PvP players view themselves as the hunters, rarely as the preys. PvE focused ones have been the preys so many time they have a hard time (or little interest in the first place) to see themselves as otherwise.
What you people fear are players trolling and griefing others. You fear that it will be a significant purpose for wanting a server transfer. If transfers are allowed, any rules put it place should be to diminish these possibilities.
The lore reason is laughable too. Considering the main story of Ashes of Creation is people coming back from another world through portals. If the Tulnar welcomed you, you can do the same for the late comers who arrived from Sanctus having completed the "special training" you've skipped for an early access.
At least we'll be spared that
You would have all sorts of scenarios.
All sorts.
You would absolutely have super highly geared individuals and groups moving to underdeveloped servers to grief them.
How often would we see this?
Beats me.
But you can be sure you would see it.
So it's unfair and thus very unfun.
BS like this makes large numbers of ppl quit.
Then they're doing it fairly.
They clawed their way naturally to the top of the food chain, inside the food chain.
That wouldn't be the case with someone coming from a highly developed server with top tier gear that isn't available on the server he trasnfered on.
That would be something artificial, something very unfair.
Please don't attempt to read my mind, it's rude and you've failed at it.
People come through portals in the world of Verra where they evolve.
They don't come already evolved.
Sorry for the rude awakening, but open PvP isn't fair. That's why so many people hates it in the first place. People quite because of this BS.
I don't remember a victim of open PvP saying: "well, at least it was a home grown predator that got me". The only ones who should care about new comers are those with little opposition (and wanting it to remain so), for all the others it doesn't change much, they're dead anyway. They can deny it all they want, find excuses, plan to be there at some point, but for the majority there is always a bigger fish.
All of sorts of scenarios, you said. All this thread is about is only the worse ones, no matter how likely or unlikely they are to happen. They're the ones put forth to justify not having any kind of transfers. I already stated I don't care either way, I'm just providing counter points, because none are provided. I only see people pointing a shadowy threats and say "hey, it's not always that bad".
You are a part of a discussion on it, and are aware of the reasons why restrictions may exist.
Most people are not a part of such conversations, however.
Most people will just see servertransfers and assume it is the same as every other game they have ever played. This is an assumption that they SHOULD make, and we need to work on the understanding that they will.
From there, if they see these restrictions, they will just be pissed off at them. No amount of explaining it will alter this fact.
the only thing is this isn't like every other mmo people have played. Stands to reason there are going to be restrictions/differences in many different scenarios. Will people complain about needing the correct craftsman, and correct materials to repair gear. Prolly, but that doesn't mean you abort that feature. Just because every other game does something a certain way doesn't mean AoC needs to follow. Maybe no server transfers are what's best for the game. I just don't see people being that upset about a restricted transfer. I see it as a way to make both sides content. Pick your server like your going to be there forever, and if you do need to leave for a reason its very limiting so think carefully if its worth it or not.
Okay so you're concern is people moving and not knowing that is a stipulation and then being pissed off when they've lost all their stuff...
That's fair, I can't argue that some people won't read and will assume.
WoW had a thing where you couldn't transfer if you had pending mail I feel like it would be easy to add something where you can't transfer a character if they have anything equipped. Make the player know that they're going to be transferring naked, that they can't bring their stuff... That they are transferring to another plane of Vera.
I have no idea what AoC intends to do concerning transfers. So, my advice would be that when the game goes live people need to choose their server with care.
However, as I said, we are having a discussion on it, so those facts are readily apparent. Case in point, your OP didn't mention any of the specifics that Ashes design would necessitate.
So, before you partook in this discussion, it was obvious you were unaware of these specifics. Therefore, others that are not a part of such discussions (99% of players) would not be aware of these specifics either.
Again it comes back to it being the lesser of two evils for Intrepid. Not offering server transfers is better for them (or less bad for them) than offering server transfers and pissing off that 99% of players that want to transfer servers until they realize what it involves.
If people need to be naked before they can transfer, there will still be people that think those items will be in storage on their new server.
However, even those that realize they take no items with them would still be pissed off. They would look at transfers in other games and just assume Intrepid are either incapable or unwilling to offer a "full transfer" like other games offer.
There is literally no way for Intrepid to offer the service you are talking about and come out looking like anything other than an evil company just trying to take peoples money.
It was someone who competed with you fair and square.
Someone who transfered with better gear is cheating.
Even for the ''bottom of the food chain'' guy you talked about.
Without server transfers he just has to worry about his own ''local'' enemies.
With server transfer he will also have to worry about ''invasive'' ones.
But ashes is a different game
It would make sense for it to be different compared to other games
Probably too harsh, but to build in that line of thoughts... There could be basic gear sets for those who transfer. Basic for their tier, just enough to be operational at their level, you know, so they do not to have to fist fight low level mobs naked or be forced to beg for days.
That's really the bottom of it. What's better for the game? Could a transfer prevent a customer from leaving for good because they don't want to reroll? What are the conditions to make it acceptable to the other players? Because if allowing transfers piss other players enough that they leave it's not better. As much as I've said there are legitimate reasons for transfers, and not only horror stories, it's still possible that no condition will make it acceptable to the audience. In that case, no transfers at all would be the best course.
If someone doesn't want to reroll, this game might be for them!
Should also force a name change to transfer! MAKE 'EM PAY!
In all seriousness I think it should be allowed so desperate folks can have an option. It just has to an appropriate character cost (not talking about $ there).
A 'basic gear' starting set for a transfer is not a bad idea.
How would cosmetics earned on the other server work?
Earn them again?
Trade a newly earned cosmetic to unlock one from your old server?
Cooldown before you can use them?
What if its an event-tied cosmetic that hasn't happened in the new server?
Ugh..
You said only the character AFTER a discussion about it had taken place, that made it blatantly obvious to those in that discussion that any item at all being transferred over was simply not viable.
Most players wanting to transfer servers have not been in that conversation, and so won't have that understanding.
Most players will look to transfer and then do one of two things. They will see that stated reason you are talking about and get pissed off that Intrepid are offering transfers, but with such ridiculous conditions (in relation to other games, that is what they are). Or, they will not see the reasons, or the conditions, and will attempt to carry on with the transfer.
It is a simple fact that people will compare server transfers in Ashes to server transfers in other MMO's. There just isn't a way around it. If they can not offer a comparable service, they need to not offer the service.
Intrepid need to simply not offer server transfers until a point where they can offer them in a comparable manner to other MMO's without negatively affecting the individual economy of each server.
three ways, they will see the restrictions and decide its not worth it for them to transfer and stay on their server. Fixing your 2nd option I think is fairly easy. When you click transfer, have a box pop up where you have to type "Destroy all items". they will certainly go back and read. Your first one is slightly harder to fix but anyone who is going to get mad over the restrictions, would also be mad if their were no transfer at all so who cares.
Once again who cares if people compare AoC transfers to other games, AoC is its own game, its server transfers will never be comparable with other games and it doesn't need to be..
Yes it would.
I think I said it 'during' the discussion, because we're still in that discussion. Yeah? /e nods enthusiastically
And you nailed it! The players 5 years from now wanting a server transfer will not have been a part of this discussion.
So they get pissed off? Boohoo cry on mommies lap.
You know a really good reason for this game not to be in lockstep with other games in the same genre?
Because AoC isn't interested in following in the long line of trash MMOs.
"This might not be the game for you" -Creative Director
Those that have the mental wherewithal to read the bold red conditions for the transfer AND continue, will be happily relocated to another server.
The OMG HOW DARE YOU WoW/Conan/EQclone DOESN'T DO THAT I'M GOING TO TELL TWITTER!!11 individual can go pound salt down a gopher hole.
Look no further than LTT's recent Linux series. Someone with a solid tech background (more than you or I) bricked a computer by typing in the thing the computer asked him to type in.
This is a means of passing blame to others, not of making a good user experience.
It is untrue that people would get as mad about no transfer as they would with this restricted transfer. People fully understand not allowing server transfers, either permanently or for an limited time. This is a common and accepted aspect of MMO's.
Half arsed server transfers like are being talked about here are not common, and are not accepted.
This is why Intrepid have said they won't to start, but may open up transfers later on after the game has been live. They don't want to offer a system that is as bad as this to their players, even if a very small minority may be ok with it.
I don't have much idea about that type of stuff but it seems to have zero connection to my idea. I didn't want to spend hours researching it so I spent about 2 minutes. It sounds to me the guy was messing with stuff 99% of the population doesn't mess with. This particular guy ran a command, Linux didn't tell him to do it. Regardless, Linux is a operating system, not a in game feature and certainly not a type destroy to confirm. If this is the same thing your talking about, here's a quote.
So today me and a friend ran “rm -rf –no-preserve-root /” on a MSI Notebook because we wanted to get rid of the pretty bloated Arch installation. Of course we could have just formatted the root partition and reinstalled Arch. But instead we thought it would be fun seeing the GNOME installation die. We weren’t dumb enough to leave important partitions mounted. We unmounted everything except of root (/).
What I'm talking about is similar to WoWs delete item function(in game)when deleting anything of higher rarity. It has no more of a chance of bricking your computer then playing WoW does. It's not a way of passing blame to others, it is a way of stopping someone from making a mistake because they weren't paying attention, or were to lazy to read something. They say "oh crap, no I don't want to delete my legendary sword". If you type delete, yea it is your fault.
Once again it seems your making assumptions based on your own opinion. Yes they are holding off on allowing server transfers right away, once again that is perfectly fine. But not for the reason you state. Here is the only info I see about server transfer decisions from their sight. If you have seen more info directly from IS please share, its certainly possible I missed it.
Server transfers will not be possible initially. The developers intend to assess the impact on housing and other systems closer to launch
You also call it half assed but its not, its just a different design choice. Its not half assed if that is the way they want it to be. IMO I don't see them ever allowing "normal" server transfers like WoW. I don't see it being accepted or even possible with AoCs game design. I think its ether not going to be a feature, or its going to be restricted. Of course I could be wrong and they may release "normal" server transfers, but I personally don't want server transfers to be easy, with little to no penalty. I think that is bad for servers. Even though I see myself needing some form of server transfer down the line. It's possible to go against the "norm" and be looked at positively. I don't want unrestricted server transfers.
This will work.
You seem to view people as generally stupid and demanding, and I agree with you, but at some point they are going to have to accept what is in front of them.
They might not like to pay for gas for their car... too bad. Get a bike.
They might not want to pay for optional cosmetics in the Cosmetic Shop. Too bad: you don't have too.
I know its a whiny and entitled and offend-o-rama generation, and apparently you do too. There is only so much that can be done to appease immature/entitled people.
There has to be a line that says THIS IS A LINE, CROSSING IT HAS CONSEQUENCES.
You say that people will be angrier with a transfer with restrictions versus no transfer. That's your emotional opinion but your laying it down like fact. It isn't.
I'm not saying people will be either happy or upset with restrictions, I am saying I feel they will appreciate at least the opportunity to move their character.
They are the guest on the new server. Existing players there should not be negatively impacted or have their efforts diluted by a newcomer.
And that's all I have to say about that.
This is relevant to what you said because you were saying that it would be a solution to essentially just get people to type in a command to delete all their gear. People will just see that they have a step they need to perform in order to do the thing they want to do, and will just do that step.
Your example of the delete function in WoW does not apply, as that is a protection to stop people deleting things accidently. Your suggestion may well be a perfectly fine way to make sure people don't accidently transfer servers in a game that offers that as a service.
But it isn't a design choice, it is a bunch of people on the forums whittling away at what a server transfer is until they are left with the most minute aspect of it (and have conveniently forgotten that even this has a perfectly applicable argument against - we may get back to it later on).
Intrepid have indeed talked about transfers more than the info on the wiki would suggest. I don't have links, because I am not your index. However, when they did talk about it, they talked about not wanting to mix up the economies of each server, and about not wanting people to be able to run and hide from their bad decisions on various servers - the things I said they have talked about.
All I am saying is that Intrepid - and server transfers in general - aren't who should be drawing that line.
They shouldn't be the ones seen to be offering half of a server transfer - they should either not offer them at all, or wait until the game is in a state where they can offer full transfers.
Even worse would be if they offered the half transfers being talked about here, and then one day decided that the game was in a state where full transfers were fine and so changed to that.Everyone that had bought a transfer up until that point would have very good reason to be pissed in Intrepid - and that is without the whole snowflake thing.
So, the best thing for Intrepid to do is to only offer transfers if and when the game is in a state where a full transfer can be offered with minimal negative effect - which is to say when all (or most) servers have had the economy normalize.