DPS Meter Megathread

mcstackerson wrote: »

Yes, it sounds like the ""issue" is the game doesn't support the kind of gameplay they are looking for. I don't think a combat tracker changes that.

Intrepid have in the past said they want exactly the kind of gameplay these people want - so you can't really say that the issue is that the game doesn't support the gameplay these people want.

A recording won't give you any reasons as to why something happened or did not happen. Again, the only thing it would show you (assuming you are talking about the kinds of tools used in PUBG) is where the enemy was, and that is not something people should be able to see.

mcstackerson

Noaani wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Yes, it sounds like the ""issue" is the game doesn't support the kind of gameplay they are looking for. I don't think a combat tracker changes that.

Intrepid have in the past said they want exactly the kind of gameplay these people want - so you can't really say that the issue is that the game doesn't support the gameplay these people want.

A recording won't give you any reasons as to why something happened or did not happen. Again, the only thing it would show you (assuming you are talking about the kinds of tools used in PUBG) is where the enemy was, and that is not something people should be able to see.

Ok, can you thoroughly explain the gameplay they want part to me. Unless you're saying that you know a few hundred "top end" guilds who aren't going to play ashes because there is no combat tracker.

If you think that all a vod does for a PUBG player is show them where their enemies were at then you don't understand them.

As i said, it shows you everything. It shows you how they were positioned, what they were doing, and sometimes why they were doing it. Trackers don't record for things like position, LOS, and collision. A recording shows everything that the tracker misses and since you are watching exactly what happened, it's easy to understand.

rikardp98

mcstackerson wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Yes, it sounds like the ""issue" is the game doesn't support the kind of gameplay they are looking for. I don't think a combat tracker changes that.

Intrepid have in the past said they want exactly the kind of gameplay these people want - so you can't really say that the issue is that the game doesn't support the gameplay these people want.

A recording won't give you any reasons as to why something happened or did not happen. Again, the only thing it would show you (assuming you are talking about the kinds of tools used in PUBG) is where the enemy was, and that is not something people should be able to see.

Ok, can you thoroughly explain the gameplay they want part to me. Unless you're saying that you know a few hundred "top end" guilds who aren't going to play ashes because there is no combat tracker.

If you think that all a vod does for a PUBG player is show them where their enemies were at then you don't understand them.

As i said, it shows you everything. It shows you how they were positioned, what they were doing, and sometimes why they were doing it. Trackers don't record for things like position, LOS, and collision. A recording shows everything that the tracker misses and since you are watching exactly what happened, it's easy to understand.

Actually Trackers does show your exact position at a specific time. Just look at warcraft logs, you can go to any fight, select "replay", and you will see the movement of every player and the boss/adds. Trackers tracks EVERYTHING that is sent from and/or received to your computer. Yes a PoV video of every player would be really awesome, but that would take up a lot of serve space and computer power because of the overwhelming information that a MMORPG is handling.

If we could get a replay function like in CSGO and all the numbers in a nice looking format, that would be awesome. But since i do not think a PoV reply function will be a thing I would very much want the next best thing, a combat track with a nice UI.

mcstackerson

rikardp98 wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

Yes, it sounds like the ""issue" is the game doesn't support the kind of gameplay they are looking for. I don't think a combat tracker changes that.

Intrepid have in the past said they want exactly the kind of gameplay these people want - so you can't really say that the issue is that the game doesn't support the gameplay these people want.

A recording won't give you any reasons as to why something happened or did not happen. Again, the only thing it would show you (assuming you are talking about the kinds of tools used in PUBG) is where the enemy was, and that is not something people should be able to see.

Ok, can you thoroughly explain the gameplay they want part to me. Unless you're saying that you know a few hundred "top end" guilds who aren't going to play ashes because there is no combat tracker.

If you think that all a vod does for a PUBG player is show them where their enemies were at then you don't understand them.

As i said, it shows you everything. It shows you how they were positioned, what they were doing, and sometimes why they were doing it. Trackers don't record for things like position, LOS, and collision. A recording shows everything that the tracker misses and since you are watching exactly what happened, it's easy to understand.

Actually Trackers does show your exact position at a specific time. Just look at warcraft logs, you can go to any fight, select "replay", and you will see the movement of every player and the boss/adds. Trackers tracks EVERYTHING that is sent from and/or received to your computer. Yes a PoV video of every player would be really awesome, but that would take up a lot of serve space and computer power because of the overwhelming information that a MMORPG is handling.

If we could get a replay function like in CSGO and all the numbers in a nice looking format, that would be awesome. But since i do not think a PoV reply function will be a thing I would very much want the next best thing, a combat track with a nice UI.

As this started as a DPS meter talk, i'm not sure if the combat tracker you are referring too is the one being talked about but i'm also not experienced with it. It sounds like that is a recording that has most of the data needed to be rendered in game. Maybe a few extra datapoints like character direction, height, and maybe animation but it sounds like you have the core of what you need.

I'm not sure where you came into the conversation but i was initially responding to someone who was claiming that without DPS meters, the game could never be competitive and would die. I responded because i thought that was a silly claim and noaani decided to join the convo. I uped the ante at one point and asserted a recording must also be necessary for competitive play because on it's convenience to see where the conversation would go and here we are.

To bring the conversation back, I'm asserting that the lack of these features will both not kill the competition in the game or the game itself.

mcstackerson wrote: »

I uped the ante at one point and asserted a recording must also be necessary for competitive play because on it's convenience.

This, imo, is the part where there is an issue.

I'm actually not even arguing that a replay function like you say wouldn't have its use. It may well be convenient. However, a combat tracker is essential at the top end - I am not talking about conveniences at all.

Azryil wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Players don't need feedback from DPS meters. There are other ways to evaluate skill efficacy.
Also... DPS meters don't answer "WTF killed me?"

I haven't seen a "dps meter" in any game that was restricted to just displaying dps, they have always been a general combat log parser that includes dps, damage taken, healing, and yes death logs.

Yes.

Tragnar

Dygz wrote: »

Azryil wrote: »

Dygz wrote: »

Players don't need feedback from DPS meters. There are other ways to evaluate skill efficacy.
Also... DPS meters don't answer "WTF killed me?"

I haven't seen a "dps meter" in any game that was restricted to just displaying dps, they have always been a general combat log parser that includes dps, damage taken, healing, and yes death logs.

Yes.

at least you admit that your last post is completely moot

I admit that the comment I responded to, while true, is irrelevant. So, inherently moot.
Yes.

Dygz wrote: »

I admit that the comment I responded to, while true, is irrelevant. So, inherently moot.
Yes.

Since the comment you responded to was a direct refute of your claim that combat trackers don't answer what killed you, if that comment was irrelevant, then so to was the point it directly refuted.

Dygz wrote: »

I admit that the comment I responded to, while true, is irrelevant. So, inherently moot.
Yes.

How was my comment in any way irrelevant? You attempt to make arguments using a literal description of "DPS Meter" despite the fact that the colloquial use, as well as what has been discussed for the entirety of this thread has been that of a combat tracker.

You assumed that I did. Doesn't mean your assumption was accurate.

So you're just being disingenuous, it has been made clear that dps meters are capable of providing significant amounts of combat data to players, yet you would still claim that they are incapable of providing data on what killed you.

Dygz wrote: »

You assumed that I did. Doesn't mean your assumption was accurate.

Why don't you start posting kn ways where what you mean is what you actually say?

That is a rhetorical question - the answer is because you know you have no solid point, and the only way you can say anything that will not be immediately and completely disproven is to obfuscate what you are saying, so that as soon as that refute is posted, you can just say "that thing that I just said isn't what I just said", while offering no clarification at all on what you wanted to originally say.

Azryil wrote: »

So you're just being disingenuous, it has been made clear that dps meters are capable of providing significant amounts of combat data to players, yet you would still claim that they are incapable of providing data on what killed you.

I didn't say they are incapable. I said they aren't needed.
There are other ways to evaluate skill efficacy.

I said they don't answer "WTF killed". I didn't say they are incapable of doing so.
You can easily figure out WTF killed you without a DPS meter.

Except that they do answer "WTF Killed" and in more detail than a player would be able to determine on their own in some cases. Though you may be able to determine what mob killed you, you may not be able to determine what ability was cast or if it was the result of a damage modifier such as a crit or crushing blow like bosses in early WoW had.

Again...unnecessary details.
People know WTF killed them without relying on DPS meters.

Unnecessary detail to your playstyle...That doesn't make it unnecessary to people that are a more hardcore progression playstyle. Just seeing "Hey the boss killed us" well no shit, but knowing why is rather important.

It's unnecessary for all playstyles. Which is why Steven's against including them. As is Square Enix for Final Fantasy.
Just because the hardcore progression playstyle wants the tool, doesn't mean the tool is necessary.

The devs determine what is legal through the ToS and what is necessary by how the content is designed. However the players still determine it is a necessary tool to improve their performance by using it. Just because Steven or Square Enix say the tool is unnecessary and shouldn't be used doesn't make it unnecessary.