Female Expression In AoC

As a Female MMO gamer I would like to suggest giving more effeminate options in armor styles. My concern is that I would like to have the option for dressing effeminately. The reason I am suggesting to make it optional is so people can dress as feminine or masculine or neutral as the player choses. This aids players self expression. Different armor styles as well as jewelry and makeup would be very helpful in this goal. I understand that you would like to keep things on the more practical side but this could be stifling to the communities creativity. Self expression and fashion is very important to me as a player I would like as many options as possible in creating my character.

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superhero6785

Dygz wrote: »

I have a feeling the dev reply will be that the heroes venturing through the portals are doing so to brave a dangerous frontier; not to be sexy.
Let's see if they've changed their minds in the last few years.

That's a flawed argument, imo. If we're to start a new life in this world, then we need options to live a fulfilling life. If the devs truly believe that, then there's no need for a robust housing system either. Why waste time decorating when you should be out adventuring. No need for a marriage or family system either. The reality is, once you establish your basic needs (food, water, shelter) in this dangerous new world, it's only logical that you will begin building a home and family and expressing your creativity. That's how life flourishes.

Leiloni

Vaknar wrote: »

It's certainly interesting seeing this thread, and others like it come up recently. I think we still have yet to see a large majority of the different gear appearances in the game (whether in-game achievable or cosmetic).

With that said, I think there may be gear sets in the future that please some who are concerned about this! Steven has said he doesn't like the idea of 'bikini armor' but hasn't ruled out form-fitting gear appearances, or more revealing ones ^_^

If you have thoughts on this and you're just happening to see this thread, please feel free to drop your thoughts in a comment!

There's definitely a huge middle ground between Bikini armor and Brienne of Tarth. You can have fashionable armor that covers most or all of a character. I would suggest taking a look at Aion's Chain armor sets for Cleric/Chanter over the years. They've been incredibly creative in making armor that looks like armor but still looks attractive.

Some quick pics I found while searching (note: These look better in game but I can't find real screenshots right now!):

The thighs are a bit ugly on this second one but the rest of the set is nice.

Leiloni

Kreed wrote: »

As long as they are not as conservative as ESO's female wardrobes. Dont get me wrong ESO had some snappy sharp looking out fits but they still were lacking in Sex appeal.

The ones they did create to have sex appeal were terrible designs.

Agreed. I'd also say GW2's armor is horrendous as well. There's no middle ground between ugly and lingerie armor. In both cases it just screams "lack of creativity" to me. If someone whose job is literally to be creative cannot come up with an interesting middle ground with armor concept art (like the Aion screenshots I posted above), then I have to ask why they were hired.

Victoria2

Lithion wrote: »

Victoria wrote: »

Yes, i agree with you!
Fashion is very important to me and i want there to be a lot of variety.
I dont want my character to look half naked, but i also dont want my character to look like Brienne of Tarth if you know what i mean.. ^^ Not that its bad, its pretty cool, but i just cant see all characters running around looking and dressed like Brienne of Tarth.

I would love different kinds of clothing, like a noble dress for example! That would be awesome!

Just.. variety! Thats not much to ask for

They actually have added a couple nice noble looking dresses, but not many.

They look awesome and i wish i could buy them, but i didnt even know the game existed up until april? i think.
And now im excluded of this and cant buy it. Im really sad..

LunariGoddess

I agree with you, and actually, I want to mention something that I've said before, because I'm sure it's important to a lot of people (even if some think it's not). Please, please, PLEASE Intrepid, do not restrain any race and the sexes and/or genders of each one to be only one way. Like, don't restrain males to be strictly masculine, or women to be strictly feminine. I think part of having an amazing character creation tool is the uniqueness someone can create a character with. Ashes Of Creation will be a game with a lot of diversity, right?(I hope there are lots of it in different aspects of the game, not just in the character creation tool), well, don't forget real life people and obviously AOC's community are diverse too!, and this is coming from someone who creates only female and feminine characters in all games by the way, just so y'all know.

So, I really hope that you guys take this into account and great consideration, because someone might want to create a male character with some makeup on and/or some feminine features, or create a female character with a harsh or "masculine" complexion, or just straight up create an androgynous character, any of those would be fu**ing cool too, to create a character that is not "usual" and at the own desires and image of each person, just like in real life. It's entirely up to ANYONE who wants to create a character like that. That's the purpose of an amazing character creation tool!

Now, again, I do hope that the character creator is not the only thing that is THAT diverse, but the whole game too in a lot of different aspects of it.

Much love xoxo

Lithion

Leiloni wrote: »

There's definitely a huge middle ground between Bikini armor and Brienne of Tarth. You can have fashionable armor that covers most or all of a character. I would suggest taking a look at Aion's Chain armor sets for Cleric/Chanter over the years. They've been incredibly creative in making armor that looks like armor but still looks attractive.

Some quick pics I found while searching (note: These look better in game but I can't find real screenshots right now!):

The thighs are a bit ugly on this second one but the rest of the set is nice.

OMG Yes! This is what I'm talking about, obviously female armor! Hope we get sets with armor like this for the women!

Lithion

Victoria wrote: »

They look awesome and i wish i could buy them, but i didnt even know the game existed up until april? i think.
And now im excluded of this and cant buy it. Im really sad..

Same

but that's why I'm asking for them to add more, not just 1 a year lol. Also they don't need to be dresses either, just more feminine like the aion examples above.

Kreed

Lithion wrote: »

My main issue is what Intrepid defines as "feminine" armor. Looking through all the monthly cosmetics it seems most of the female armor is like they designed what looks cool for the male character and then just added boobs and that's the female. I'll show examples of what I mean.

Here are some of the armors I think are ok at having definite differences between male and female. (7)

Now for these next pictures I think that the designs are cool and we should keep making more like this, but i just think we should add in more variation between male and female also. So maybe just more often they have a pack with a very different female option. These, IN MY OPINION, are all pretty much set up that the female armor looks identical to the male armor but with boob bumps or very minor changes like different drawing on the front chestplate. (Which again, is perfectly fine, but would like bigger changes between male and female on more packs also.) (38)

As you can see there seems to be a lot more where the male and female are very similar, and on those I just kind of feel like they designed the male armor and then went, "ok now how do we make it female?

Yeah just look at the current shop gear skin that you can buy now its horrible as a style for the female, if you didnt have the male standing next to the female for comparison you wouldnt know if the character was a female.

Sybil_Lanel

Kreed wrote: »

Lithion wrote: »

My main issue is what Intrepid defines as "feminine" armor. Looking through all the monthly cosmetics it seems most of the female armor is like they designed what looks cool for the male character and then just added boobs and that's the female. I'll show examples of what I mean.

Here are some of the armors I think are ok at having definite differences between male and female. (7)

Now for these next pictures I think that the designs are cool and we should keep making more like this, but i just think we should add in more variation between male and female also. So maybe just more often they have a pack with a very different female option. These, IN MY OPINION, are all pretty much set up that the female armor looks identical to the male armor but with boob bumps or very minor changes like different drawing on the front chestplate. (Which again, is perfectly fine, but would like bigger changes between male and female on more packs also.) (38)

As you can see there seems to be a lot more where the male and female are very similar, and on those I just kind of feel like they designed the male armor and then went, "ok now how do we make it female?

Yeah just look at the current shop gear skin that you can buy now its horrible as a style for the female, if you didnt have the male standing next to the female for comparison you wouldnt know if the character was a female.

absolutely agree. I think a good real world example is how clothing works with real men and women. A suit looks very different to a Dress as far as formal attire goes. I'm not asking for bikini armor. But when I look at a py'rai female I want to be able to instantly tell is a female. The armor right know is incredibly masculine looking even on the female models. As a female player I would not use 90% of these on a feminine character. I even mentioned today that you wouldn't be able to tell without the side by side

Songcaller

Not sure. It seems to me that all our requests are based on human models or old elven models. I've given up trying to make a Wood Nymph Beauty after seeing what the devs have done to my racial plans.

Extermicide

Unfortunately, I already know some females who are putting a 'HARD-PASS' on playing AOC, because they feel they won't be able to represent themselves as truly FEMININE. Of course, this was an opinion generated by visuals seen in ALPHA-1 (where all the FEMALE CHARACTERS looked more manly then my own Dad).

However, If a male character can run around wearing just a loincloth (Conan the Barbarian), then personally I feel a female character should be allowed to wear the Iron-Bikini model (if they so choose to do so).

It would be cool however if ARMOR actually reflected real-use stats to some degree.
Example: Wearing a loincloth or iron-bikini would give the character a SPEED BOOST in combat (as their movement is not hindered in anyway) -- But they have close to no ACTUAL ARMOR PROTECTION in choosing that type of outfit.

WEREAS: someone in FULL BODY ARMOR would have the best in protection, but their abilities as far as movement and speed are hindered a bit due to their choice.

Key Word here is "CHOICE".

I believe in Freedom of Choice. For all things - not just this topic.

Taking someone's ability away to choose - and not be the PERSON/PLAYER that they truly want to be is going to alienate certain groups of people. Taking away someone's freedom of choice - forcing them to be something that they are not - or don't relate with -- is again, going to alienate certain groups of PEOPLE/PLAYERS.

Honestly, my feelings on this subject, is to give all kinds of options to all types of people (in regards to armor). However, give legitimate PROS and CONS when using these types of Armors. If going to war, and sieging a castle, would a loincloth or bikini-armor be the best choice? Probably not. But if I CHOOSE to wear that into battle, and die 2 minutes into the fight - well then, I just learned a valuable lesson about dressing appropriately for the occasion.

However, If i'm just questing, grinding, or harvesting, then a loincloth or bikini-armor would probably be just fine considering what my plans are.

At least I had the "CHOICE" and the "OPTION" to play and look the way "I WANTED TO".

Practical vs Un-Practical takes a back-seat to FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

Lithion

Kreed wrote: »

Yeah just look at the current shop gear skin that you can buy now its horrible as a style for the female, if you didnt have the male standing next to the female for comparison you wouldnt know if the character was a female.

Lol exactly, its like they made the male one and then just shrunk it down a bit and made slight bulges on the chest. I feel like they do that a lot.

Songcaller

It is difficult. The whole store smacks of amateurs or fraudsters. I mean why do we buy cosmetics we have never seen on all races prior to purchase?

Why do we still have no structure details?

Why have we spent years of money on the game only to be forced to change, not use or replace half our purchases after racial concepts are changed.

Sometimes I feel so used, abused and confused that I have to leave these forums for days or weeks just to escape the suppression.

George_Black

Neurath wrote: »

It is difficult. The whole store smacks of amateurs or fraudsters. I mean why do we buy cosmetics we have never seen on all races prior to purchase?

Why do we still have no structure details?

Why have we spent years of money on the game only to be forced to change, not use or replace half our purchases after racial concepts are changed.

Sometimes I feel so used, abused and confused that I have to leave these forums for days or weeks just to escape the suppression.

Get that shit out of this topic. It has nothing to do with people wanting feminine designs. Dont derail it.

JustVine

Lithion wrote: »

Kreed wrote: »

Yeah just look at the current shop gear skin that you can buy now its horrible as a style for the female, if you didnt have the male standing next to the female for comparison you wouldnt know if the character was a female.

Lol exactly, its like they made the male one and then just shrunk it down a bit and made slight bulges on the chest. I feel like they do that a lot.

For some of them maybe, but a lot of the ones you linked in a previous post had clear style divisions. It was just the fact that the costumes tended to be 'uniforms' of some type, so they were bound to follow some similar guidelines. A lot of them still look distinctly 'female cut' to me. I can agree with some of the pieces doing what you are implying, but not all. Some of the ones you posted look quite feminine to me in fact and it is the guy that get's the 'shorter end' of the design stick. But that one was also a uniform I think. I'd have to double check.

Songcaller

George_Black wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

It is difficult. The whole store smacks of amateurs or fraudsters. I mean why do we buy cosmetics we have never seen on all races prior to purchase?

Why do we still have no structure details?

Why have we spent years of money on the game only to be forced to change, not use or replace half our purchases after racial concepts are changed.

Sometimes I feel so used, abused and confused that I have to leave these forums for days or weeks just to escape the suppression.

Get that shit out of this topic. It has nothing to do with people wanting feminine designs. Dont derail it.

Fuck you you can't. I have only a female toon. Bye bye beautiful.

George_Black

Neurath wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

It is difficult. The whole store smacks of amateurs or fraudsters. I mean why do we buy cosmetics we have never seen on all races prior to purchase?

Why do we still have no structure details?

Why have we spent years of money on the game only to be forced to change, not use or replace half our purchases after racial concepts are changed.

Sometimes I feel so used, abused and confused that I have to leave these forums for days or weeks just to escape the suppression.

Get that shit out of this topic. It has nothing to do with people wanting feminine designs. Dont derail it.

Fuck you you can't. I have only a female toon. Bye bye beautiful.

Hahhah ahahhah what?

Lithion

JustVine wrote: »

For some of them maybe, but a lot of the ones you linked in a previous post had clear style divisions. It was just the fact that the costumes tended to be 'uniforms' of some type, so they were bound to follow some similar guidelines. A lot of them still look distinctly 'female cut' to me. I can agree with some of the pieces doing what you are implying, but not all. Some of the ones you posted look quite feminine to me in fact and it is the guy that get's the 'shorter end' of the design stick. But that one was also a uniform I think. I'd have to double check.

I know homie i was just saying a lot of them look very similar. In my previous post i posted all monthly cosmetics (45 in total) and only 7 out of 45 of them in my opinion had very different male and female versions. I understand in the statement you quoted of me i had said it looked identical to the male but just smaller and with boob bumps, but i was mainly talking about the newest one but did also say a lot of others were like that too. I think some of them you can tell its a female for sure, but you can make any masculine armor into feminine by adding boobs lol. I was just hoping they add more variation in the future. Wouldn't you agree it feels more like they design the male armor and then go "ok now how do we make this fit the female too?" NOT ALWAYS, but a lot of times, like around half.

JustVine

Lithion wrote: »

JustVine wrote: »

For some of them maybe, but a lot of the ones you linked in a previous post had clear style divisions. It was just the fact that the costumes tended to be 'uniforms' of some type, so they were bound to follow some similar guidelines. A lot of them still look distinctly 'female cut' to me. I can agree with some of the pieces doing what you are implying, but not all. Some of the ones you posted look quite feminine to me in fact and it is the guy that get's the 'shorter end' of the design stick. But that one was also a uniform I think. I'd have to double check.

I know homie i was just saying a lot of them look very similar. In my previous post i posted all monthly cosmetics (45 in total) and only 7 out of 45 of them in my opinion had very different male and female versions. I understand in the statement you quoted of me i had said it looked identical to the male but just smaller and with boob bumps, but i was mainly talking about the newest one but did also say a lot of others were like that too. I think some of them you can tell its a female for sure, but you can make any masculine armor into feminine by adding boobs lol. I was just hoping they add more variation in the future. Wouldn't you agree it feels more like they design the male armor and then go "ok now how do we make this fit the female too?" NOT ALWAYS, but a lot of times, like around half.

Oh no worries. I think what I really wanted to point out was that uniform type costumes tend to feel more unisex than they really are. I get the rest of your points for sure. I think around half feels like a fair guestimate. I personally think that's fairly acceptable as a ratio but we don't have a good range within that ratio yet which is probably what is causing so many others more sensitive to the topic to be so vocal.

Also I'm not really sure how many women there are in IS right now. Every time Steven prattles off a name of an employee it feels like it is taken out of 'generic male name bank.' I think I've heard two other than Margaret and Toast themselves in the past six months and that is out of dozens of employees Steven likes to praise during stream. This isn't to say they have none, but it's hard to imagine there are a lot of them based on that sample.

I think Margaret is a pretty strong voice when it comes to design direction from a female perspective, but it takes more than a few people to effect the dozens of designs they have to make at any given time. Everything Margaret has made personally that she has said so on Stream has been super tasteful and walking a pretty good line in terms of range of sexiness vs 'serious/reserved/whatever you wanna call it' in her designs. I hope there is a healthy proportion of women in those new hires that can be helping with some of these design decisions. Perhaps that would improve things if it's not currently present.

Songcaller

George_Black wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

George_Black wrote: »

Neurath wrote: »

It is difficult. The whole store smacks of amateurs or fraudsters. I mean why do we buy cosmetics we have never seen on all races prior to purchase?

Why do we still have no structure details?

Why have we spent years of money on the game only to be forced to change, not use or replace half our purchases after racial concepts are changed.

Sometimes I feel so used, abused and confused that I have to leave these forums for days or weeks just to escape the suppression.

Get that shit out of this topic. It has nothing to do with people wanting feminine designs. Dont derail it.

Fuck you you can't. I have only a female toon. Bye bye beautiful.

Hahhah ahahhah what?

Yeah, George. I must apologise. At the time I was in a bad mood and naturally I responded in kind (swearing for swearing etc). I'm pleased you took it in jest mate. Once again my apologies. (I won't edit the post so people understand what I have apologised for.)

Cheers,
Neu

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