Impossible easter eggs and why I love them.

Ok so im gonna give you an example so you know what I mean.
Lets say your walking through a game and fall into a hole that only opens up during certain times of the day. Normally the fall would kill you but you luck out and hit a few ledges and make it to the bottom only to find a chest that gives you a clue as to where to find an item. You find the item but it gives you no stats.
Now lets say that there are like 100 of these scattered around the world and if you collect them all then you can forge them together in only one place that you have to find and when you done you get like a permanent 1% to all your stats and a fancy title. The kicker being that only the first person who finds them all and forges them together gets the stats and the title. everyone else gets nothing.
Now obviously that might not work in this game but knowing that there is something out there that completely separate from the rest of the game. where everything no matter how small might be a clue that will lead you to something. I love that stuff. Something that seems nearly impossible to accomplish then then spending months trying to do it and then you get this great reward thats lets everyone know that your that guy. What more would a hardcore gamer want?

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Azherae

Definitely the sort of thing that some people will be into, and others won't be as happy about, like Legendary items. It's quite possible there will be quests that reward Legendary items in this way, I think they said this.

Hopefully it'll be the sort of thing that gets discussed eventually, I particularly like the idea of it relative to Religion or Astrology. I'll bet Intrepid will appreciate any feedback on that when they start bringing in those systems.

George_Black

A hardcore gamer doesnt want that.
People that wish ingame words being the reality would want that. They would love to chance upon Excalibur and be "that guy"

It's a system design that almost nobody will play through OR somebody would upload on youtube and people would do step by step, with their eyes glued onto the youtube screen instead of their game.

I do understand the need for discovery, but it's not practical in mmos. Personally, what I would find exciting is if in some far to reach vista there are a couple of mobs that drop a bit better gold per hour, or they drop some nice collection of mats, or if they are tough to kill, but give lots of xp per hour, but only if you have the correct group setup, or if there were a few open world raid bosses in close proximity, which would make true mmorpg players salivate over them.

These are the discoveries I am looking for. The good grinding spots. And if the area looks good and has nice music that would be awsome.
I promise you that hardcore gamers wouldnt reveal it on youtube, making such locations exciting to find.

It's a massive multiplayer game. Not a singleplayer game, not a movie.

Things designed must have a functional purpose and not break the balance.
Or you can do what eso does, which is full of useless easter eggs that people go crazy about ticking off their achievement tab.
0 challenge tho and 0 practical benefit.

Electronn

Rialus wrote: »

Ok so im gonna give you an example so you know what I mean.
Lets say your walking through a game and fall into a hole that only opens up during certain times of the day. Normally the fall would kill you but you luck out and hit a few ledges and make it to the bottom only to find a chest that gives you a clue as to where to find an item. You find the item but it gives you no stats.
Now lets say that there are like 100 of these scattered around the world and if you collect them all then you can forge them together in only one place that you have to find and when you done you get like a permanent 1% to all your stats and a fancy title. The kicker being that only the first person who finds them all and forges them together gets the stats and the title. everyone else gets nothing.
Now obviously that might not work in this game but knowing that there is something out there that completely separate from the rest of the game. where everything no matter how small might be a clue that will lead you to something. I love that stuff. Something that seems nearly impossible to accomplish then then spending months trying to do it and then you get this great reward thats lets everyone know that your that guy. What more would a hardcore gamer want?

With you on this. Super rare & exclusive. Intellectual challenge + luck + gameplay.

I do think there would need to be some mechanic that changes/randomizes the path so step-by-step guides don't pop up and ruin it.

I'm pretty sure I have a faint memory of Steven alluding to the potential for things like this. I don't have a quote or anything, just a hint of a memory, could be wrong.

George_Black

One more thing....
AoC is going to be a real mmo, in which progress requires dedication and teamwork, both of which mean sacrificing individual priorities.

Such a system wouldnt work in a real mmorpg, going around your whole gaming life, hoping to find -such a lame term......- easter eggs.
People why fly past you, progressing and becoming stronger and influential.

In your quest to find something stronger than most, an unfair advantage based on nothing more but luck, you will end up being weaker. Hell even if you do end up find something after many months, you will still be weaker propably.

And we will end up with more 100 page posts about "protecting our casuals who spend all day, walking about looking for hidden secrets that could possible reward them with a strong piece of gear, but then again gear shouldnt matter so much to protect said casuals."

Such designs belong better in single player games, even though you may not get the same satisfaction, having no other players to rise above.

George_Black

I will give one more alternative.
Simple treasure chests that reward simple, effective cash.

Random and never the same locations, with lots of gold. How many at any given time? Too few to impact the player driven economy but rewarding lots of gold to make somebodys day. Enough to buy a brand new weapon from some other player.

Or chests with "unique item" that depict a heap of gold coins, precious stones and other trinkets.
Either keep it to boast or sell it to the npcs for lots and lots of plain simple gold.

Sense of discovery, doesnt affect gameplay balance and rules, reason to wonder off and go check behind that waterfall.

Ludullu

George_Black wrote: »

I do understand the need for discovery, but it's not practical in mmos. Personally, what I would find exciting is if in some far to reach vista there are a couple of mobs that drop a bit better gold per hour, or they drop some nice collection of mats, or if they are tough to kill, but give lots of xp per hour, but only if you have the correct group setup, or if there were a few open world raid bosses in close proximity, which would make true mmorpg players salivate over them.

I think this could be combined with OP's idea. Mb you find that grinding spot and after killing a thousand mobs there (or just getting very very lucky), you loot a piece of rock slab that points you towards another mob location. And possession of this slab gives you more XP/money when farming that new spot.

And maybe that spot is not the most optimal for your class to farm, so you gotta bring friends. And those friends might want to do this "quest line" too so you farm the first location to drop them a piece of the slab too. And you do this several times, with maybe some of the pieces pointing you towards bosses or some additional quest lines that give you some cool gear.

And at the end you gotta kill some epic boss, while using the full rock slab in some way, which will give you some cool title with a stat buff or smth along those lines.

Lineage 2 had a similar mechanic for their class change quest. You had to get a drop of blood from one of the epic bosses. That boss was usually controlled by one of the big guilds so you'd either have to be in that guild, be in the opposing guild and defend the other one for the right to farm the boss or just buy your way into the boss room so that you can prick the boss with a quest item for that drop of blood.

Rialus

George_Black wrote: »

A hardcore gamer doesnt want that.
People that wish ingame words being the reality would want that. They would love to chance upon Excalibur and be "that guy"

It's a system design that almost nobody will play through OR somebody would upload on youtube and people would do step by step, with their eyes glued onto the youtube screen instead of their game.

I do understand the need for discovery, but it's not practical in mmos. Personally, what I would find exciting is if in some far to reach vista there are a couple of mobs that drop a bit better gold per hour, or they drop some nice collection of mats, or if they are tough to kill, but give lots of xp per hour, but only if you have the correct group setup, or if there were a few open world raid bosses in close proximity, which would make true mmorpg players salivate over them.

These are the discoveries I am looking for. The good grinding spots. And if the area looks good and has nice music that would be awsome.
I promise you that hardcore gamers wouldnt reveal it on youtube, making such locations exciting to find.

It's a massive multiplayer game. Not a singleplayer game, not a movie.

Things designed must have a functional purpose and not break the balance.
Or you can do what eso does, which is full of useless easter eggs that people go crazy about ticking off their achievement tab.
0 challenge tho and 0 practical benefit.

I get what your saying but don't misunderstand. The idea isnt to get some OP piece of gear thats gonna make me better then anyone else. It could be nothing. Like .001 percent to stats and i would still want to find it and if everyone knew that only one person could get it then no one would put on youtube until someone had already completed it because of course where would they get the info if it wasn't already done. The idea behind finding a good farming spot where i can kill the same mobs over and over again has always been really boring to me. I get that it's needed but it would be nice to have something to do and explore when im running solo while waiting for friends to get online. I mean whats the use in have this huge world if there isn't gonna be some mystery to it. I would even be ok with random mini boss that just pop up in the world on randomized timers that give a unique item with a cool look.
I may be in a small group on this one but having certain accomplishments that only one person or one group of people can get. Like "first on server" stuff is kinda the heart of being a hardcore gamer and I wrong? who doesn't what to be the first to figure something out?

Dygz

I guess... but... I expect I wouldn't care anything about that unless I know whatever it is going to have the stats I want for my race and class and social org and religion.
If I think it looks super cool - sure, I guess - but that seems like a crapshoot.

Some people might love it. Especially Achievers.

mrdoor

I support this concept

We saw a good example of an mmorpg that was too hardcore in 'New World'. This is not a good thing for hardcore players either really. MMORPGs do not survive as 'hardcore only'. They don't survive trying to please everyone either, it's a fine balance that has to be struck.

MMORPGs tend to be good because people with different playstyles, motivations, and in general lifestyles come together in the same world (just as a real world). Hardcore players like consistent ways to farm the best gear and riches, they like consistency in their ability to perform their jobs. But no one on Earth enjoys playing a game where the best you can do is to play by the same motivations and style as the most hardcore players, just worse.

There needs to be multiple ways to become powerful, and rich, and to feel accomplished. The more these paths through the game can symbiote with each other the better, to make a world that feels interconnected and to empower the players by giving them the ability to be useful and to a fair degree remain competitive. For a hardcore players, there is already a competitive advantage in the amount of time they spend practicing. So a relatively high skill ceiling in combat mechanics is enough to give hardcore players advantage.

Of course you also want to be rewarded for your dedication, and I think that's totally fair. But someone who knows he will never have the opportunity to compete with the most hardcore players, and people who play solo or in small groups needs to have a sense of exploration and discovery, that goes beyond simply collecting achievements or vanity pets.

Of course it is important that "impossible", special kind of paths of chance do not become a "mandatory" thing for the hardcore players as that would make them never rest until they've done it. In terms of power/stat advantage any such path has to have an equal (in terms of powerup) that is somewhat consistently available through hardcore play.

Noaani

NiKr wrote: »

you'd either have to be in that guild, be in the opposing guild and defend the other one for the right to farm the boss or just buy your way into the boss room so that you can prick the boss with a quest item for that drop of blood.

Yeah, but this isn't good gameplay.

When bribing other players is your only viabke means of progression, you know you have a bad (or - at best niche) game design.

Ludullu

Noaani wrote: »

Yeah, but this isn't good gameplay.

When bribing other players is your only viabke means of progression, you know you have a bad (or - at best niche) game design.

Yeah, which is why it was changed later on. I was just giving an example where this kind of thing could be used. A lot of things in Ashes will already be veeeery exclusive so adding one more exclusive thing, that's only meant for the people who care about collecting all the things/features in the game, shouldn't be that much of a bad thing.

Hell, you could even have the last part as an optional step that gives you the title, while all the previous steps give you the gear/accessory/cosmetic.

WarlockofCode

Maybe a decade or two ago I'd be all about this, because I had all the time imaginable to delve into digital worlds. But now that I'm older, chasing that server celebrity status still seems cool but not appealing to chase after.

Though I do cast my +1 vote for secret puzzles, tranquil vistas, hidden cairns, and tricky jump paths.

I'd also be completely ok with an "artifact" system where powerful weapons (big knockbacks, mass lifesteal, etc), trinkets (extra XP, extra gold drop, unlimited swimming breath, etc), or armor (instant extra rez once per 10 minutes, etc) drop randomly across the entire world at different intervals, with notice in the zone that the artifact has appeared. First player to click on the item gets to use it for a set amount of time (a week, for instance) at which time the artifact disappears from their inventory to be respawned again later.

The catch is just holding one of the artifact alerts the server to your presence, marking you on the map. Anyone that slays the holder of an artifact may click to pick up the item after death and become the new owner (without incurring corruption). If left on the ground for a short time, it will despawn like normal.

Something like artifacts would incentivize PvPing in an organic way while being a fun system that caters to both hardcore and casual players.

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