Discussion; secondary class doesn't matter.

As far as I can tell, secondary classes do two things. They provide a list of adornments to spells and abilities of the primary class, and they are used to determine stats gained with each new level.

So, if our primary archetype will be where all of our base spells and abilities come from, and our secondary will provide those base spells and abilities with adornments we can select to apply, we can assume that the difference between a tank/tank and a tank/ranger will be almost entirely contained within the adornments each of these two classes have access to.

The thing is, we will gain access to more adornments as we adventure out in Verra.

In my experience playing MMO's, the best things are always the things that take the most time to get. If you apply this basic principle to these adornments, which group are likely to be better - the group of adornments you get as you level your character, or the group of adornments you actually spend time to gain access to?

Now, I admit I am making a few assumptions here - adornments found in the world will be based on primary archetype, not actual class is one assumption I am making.

What this says to me is that once players have spent time in Verra, once a large number of players have access to the ariety of adornments on offer outside of the class system, the bulk of players - those wanting to be the most effective at what they do at least - will likely all start using adornments on their spells and abilities that came from sources other than their secondary archetype.

If this is the case, if a tank/tank and a tank/ranger have the same spells and/or abilities selected, and the same adornments attached to them because they are the 'best' adornments, will there be any difference between a Guardian and a Warden?

Discuss!

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Dygz

Cleric/Shaman - Cleric is the Primary Archetype. Primary Archetype cannot be changed.
Secondary Archetype can be changed, so...

If my character becomes a Level 50 Primary Archetype Cleric/Shaman, I can change the class from Shaman, to Scryer, or Templar, and back to Shaman, but that character will remain a Level 50 Primary Archetype Cleric. Until an expansion increases max level.

The devs' plans for class design have not changed. As far as we know. Regardless of what you want.

But, according to the current design:
It is already possible for a Primary Archetype Cleric to reach Level 50.
And, augments can already be applied to any Active Skill.

Songcaller

I'm not sure how to take your input. You are like a broken record. I do not know what the devs plans are but I do try to advise and assist.

You seem to want to take a development quote and chain the whole development by it. I love transparent development and if my ideas take flight people can come here to see how. Nothing is hidden.

At the end of the day I want ashes to succeed. I have skills and experience. I might not be a coder or artist but creation also requires passion and heart of another sort.

Thank you,
Neurath.

Dygz

You don't know what the devs' plans are.
I am informing you what the current dev design is.

You say, "If my ideas take flight."
I said those ideas about Level 50 Primary Archetype and augments applying to any Active Skill are already part of the current dev design. That's it.

Songcaller

All of my concepts and requests for engine updates and employment still stand.

You delayed Demonic Shaman by a week and a half. Anglic Shaman took just 6 hours without you looming large.

Frankly, I don't need to defend or prove myself to you. I believe Ashes of Creation and all classes should be unique.

I realise you still quote a man who abandoned the project years ago. I'd rather build the future than repeat the past.

Cya,
Neurath.

Dygz

I didn't delay anything. I asked you questions about how your concepts fit with the dev design.
Once I realized you don't care whether your concepts fit with the current dev designs, and you don't care whether people understand your concepts, I stopped asking you questions.
And then you monopolized the thread with probably 3+ pages of your concepts.

You don't need to defend or prove anything.
You said, "The 8 base classes can be played to 50 now." I replied that has always been part of the dev design.
You said, "At level 25, you get to keep the base..." I replied that's already possible with Cleric/Cleric.
You said, "Augments will also come from other sources." I replied that is already true in the current dev design.

I simply pointed out stuff you said that is already in the current dev design. There is nothing you need to defend or prove.

I am informing you of Steven's designs.
It's fine for you to theorycraft your dream concepts.
But, those three quotes of yours above are already past designs because they have always been part of the Ashes game design. We can expect them to also be future designs because it's unlikely they will change.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I am informing you of Steven's designs.

If Neurath wants to offload some of the ideas he has, he is more than welcome to do so.

This thread is as good a place to do so as any other.

Clearly, if all he is doing is offloading ideas that he has, he doesn't care (nor should he care) what the current plan for the game is.

I am unsure why you always think it necessary to interject with the current design paradigm of the game when someone else is just throwing ideas around. There is a time and place for pointing out what the design of the game is - and that time and place is not when someone is just throwing out ideas.

Dygz

I think I said that.
But the sentence of mine you just quoted is in response to Neurath saying that I'm quoting Jeffrey's designs.

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I think I said that.

So why even mention what the current game design is?

I mean, if you said that he is welcome to offload the ideas - as he is doing - then why would you think he would care what the current design is? Since you must then logically know he doesn't care what the current design is, why would you even mention the current design?

Dygz

I think you already know I what I think about your prowess with logic.

SirChancelot

Noaani

Dygz wrote: »

I think you already know I what I think about your prowess with logic.

Indeed, people that have no grasp of a concept often dont understand people that do.

Also, if you are going to say things like

Dygz wrote: »

But the sentence of mine you just quoted is in response to Neurath saying that I'm quoting Jeffrey's designs.

Then you really need to start learning how the quote function works. The rest of us are not mind readers, and so unless you quote the specific part of a post you are commenting on, literally none of us know what you are talking about.

If you need help with that, just ask.

Songcaller

PvP Force Combat Upgrade for Tab Action Combat:

Tab/mouse pointer target selection.

'Damage source player foe' will switch Tab target to pvp mode.

The flagging system remains intact.

Corrupted players in target zones will be struck automatically.

Aoe will affect all targets once flagged.

Mouse pointer selection also offers other modes like trade etc.

Thank you for the support,
Neurath.

Songcaller

Clarification:

Target selection in pvp is the confirmation of pvp intent. Once target is acquired, you can initiate a skill to flag.

I've tried to streamline the systems and provide ease of use.

Much love,
Neurath.

Azherae

Neurath wrote: »

Clarification:

Target selection in pvp is the confirmation of pvp intent. Once target is acquired, you can initiate a skill to flag.

I've tried to streamline the systems and provide ease of use.

Much love,
Neurath.

In the case of abilities like Hallowed Ground, currently, placing a Hallowed Ground on a neutral target may have no effect, or it may heal them.

In the situation where Hallowed Ground was placed on a neutral, and then an attack skill initiated, does the Hallowed Ground itself change to 'hostile', or does it continue to be healing, i.e. are the targets of Hallowed Ground set in this way relative to PvP intent?

Songcaller

There will be no totems in my combat builds. I would go so far to state there won't be many ground abilities (ranger traps and some others of course).

A skill will not change from health to damage without an augment or necromancers. I am still building necromancer so the concept might change.

In terms of healer counters it will be necromancer and fighter.

Thank you,
Neurath.

Dygz

Hallowed Ground is not a totem. Hallowed Ground is a Cleric AoE Active Skill.
Hallowed Ground, with no augments applied, heals allies and damages enemies.

Songcaller

Once more you reference a skill under combat revamp. In terms of individual skills, individual restrictions and wavers will apply.

All of my AoEs damage and heal. Once more you ignore my references and waste everyone's time.

You do not flag in pve. Your pet can't flag you for pvp. All of your skills are neutral until you flag for active combat.

You can use abilities without a target selected in Tab Action Combat. If you do not want to flag, do not target a player in active combat.

Cheers,
Neurath.

Dygz

LMAO
One post cannot waste time in the forums.
What you seem to mean is you don't want people to distract you from your focused theorycrafting.

Songcaller

Yes, I do indeed need the time to create the unique ideas. I do try to apply all of my skills. I believe the devs have always wanted to be unique. They just seem to like static skills, pauses, quick time events and graphical effects until we give feedback.

I chose ue5 due to the prognosis. The scope and power is potent. I did not want the devs to waste the potential.

Hard-core gameplay should be difficult.

Blocking grinding, loot and alt toon cooperation is not hard-core, it is mean.

One does not have to be mean to create fulfilling challenges.

Thank you for the opportunities,
Neurath.

Songcaller

For example:

Demonic Shaman in my mind has blood effects around them, rather than billions of blood particle effects all over foes:

The effects can be very grand but are rather localised. In an ideal world, ue5 will let my combat devs achieve 500vs500 with cosmetic skins and pets attached. I make no promises but I believe UE5 can take the ideation.

I do enjoy theory crafting, thank you Dygz.
Neurath.

P.s. some skills will indeed spread particles lol.

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