Discussion; secondary class doesn't matter.

As far as I can tell, secondary classes do two things. They provide a list of adornments to spells and abilities of the primary class, and they are used to determine stats gained with each new level.

So, if our primary archetype will be where all of our base spells and abilities come from, and our secondary will provide those base spells and abilities with adornments we can select to apply, we can assume that the difference between a tank/tank and a tank/ranger will be almost entirely contained within the adornments each of these two classes have access to.

The thing is, we will gain access to more adornments as we adventure out in Verra.

In my experience playing MMO's, the best things are always the things that take the most time to get. If you apply this basic principle to these adornments, which group are likely to be better - the group of adornments you get as you level your character, or the group of adornments you actually spend time to gain access to?

Now, I admit I am making a few assumptions here - adornments found in the world will be based on primary archetype, not actual class is one assumption I am making.

What this says to me is that once players have spent time in Verra, once a large number of players have access to the ariety of adornments on offer outside of the class system, the bulk of players - those wanting to be the most effective at what they do at least - will likely all start using adornments on their spells and abilities that came from sources other than their secondary archetype.

If this is the case, if a tank/tank and a tank/ranger have the same spells and/or abilities selected, and the same adornments attached to them because they are the 'best' adornments, will there be any difference between a Guardian and a Warden?

Discuss!

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Comments

SirChancelot

That's kinda what I was suggesting.
Make a thread of random ideas or something

Noaani

CROW3 wrote: »

Meh - it's fine. If Neurath needs a public google-esque doc to toss ideas into the ether yet still keep connected to the community, it's ok with me. Could be the start of the Whiteboard / OT forum category.

It's ok with me too - and since I am the one getting the notifications (just ticked over to 100 since I looked at them last), I dont think anyone has any reason to complain.

Noaani

Neurath wrote: »

do spell Noaani's name wrong though. It's dyslexia more than pokes.

You join a long line of people that have spelt it wrong - including Steven.

Songcaller

Tab Action Combat Update:

Melee Movement, Hit Box Parameters and Dodge Function (Active Evasion) conceptualisation: Elden Ring.

No target required.

Peace,
Neurath.

Songcaller

Tab Action Combat Update:

Reticule Soft Lock Targetting for Ranger.

All the best,
Neurath.

CROW3

I hope not. I still want action archery.

Songcaller

How will you fire aoe without soft lock? I don't mind doing a single target ranger but you'd have a 50%50 split of melee and ranged skills. With reticule you single shoot, with soft lock you aoe shoot...

Aoe in my head is not a ground target.

CROW3

A few different ways.

- a ground based AOE ( like a mass barrage )
- an activated ability with my target reticle on a target (this is done in Neverwinter for rangers) like a conal attack
- a directional attack based on what way I’m facing

Songcaller

The conal attack is the soft lock. The targeting system referenced comes from neverwinter...

CROW3

By soft lock do you mean whatever target the reticle is on? I just call that aiming. But want to make sure since we may be on the same page.

JustVine

CROW3 wrote: »

By soft lock do you mean whatever target the reticle is on? I just call that aiming. But want to make sure since we may be on the same page.

I think they mean sticky reticle since they mentioned Neverwinter

Songcaller

Yeah, so say three guys run at you, you aim at the guy in the middle, you can then either shoot a single target shot or (by means yet devised) strike all three with a soft lock that would branch the reticule into a cone. I'm not a fan of multiple arrows from a bow though and the bow weapon skills will use the same system.

Songcaller

Summon Skill Update (Summon Mount):

Mount Summon Skill (Mini Mount): Player throws Bauble With Mini Mount Statue onto ground, Mount smashes bauble and prepares to be mounted.

Much love,
Neurath.

Songcaller

Tab Action Combat Update:

Due to the old combat build and new combat engine, weapon swaps will only be possible via keybind rather than active skill.

Each class will be designed with a weapon in mind, some with crossovers and some with both options.

If you have a class which is designated a specific weapon, augment schools will be available to gain access to the build you want.

No one will be left behind, i just have a previous stupid game design to resolve.

Thanks for the support,
Neurath.

Songcaller

P.s. my aoe is never ground target because we will have dragons in the sky to fend off too. Whoever designed the previous aoe abilities obviously wanted all classes incapable of sky aoe and thus be decimated but i digress.

Much love,
Neurath.

Songcaller

Post contains: Ranger Roster, Bow Weapon Roster, Crossbow Weapon Roster.

@CROW3

Hello Crow, I didn’t want to keep you in the dark so I’ve done Ranger. I hope you like the concepts.

Ranger Roster:

Dedicated Weapons: Bow + Quiver.
Backup Weapon: Crossbow.

Class Companion: Forest Fae (A Winged Forest Fairy who teleports to targets and initiates the AoE seen below).

Forest Fae Buffs: Fae Foresight – Max Range Increased by 10 Meters. Close Range Shot Limit Reduced to 0 Meter Threshold. Ranger Receives Sharpened Sight – Unlocks Scope Scout.

Special Skills:
Forest Flicker (Double Tap Directional Movement Keys). Instant Teleport – Puff of leaves left behind. Distance 1 x 10 meters. 3 x stack. 15 Second Cooldown.

Scope Scout (Roller Mouse Reticule Zoom in/out). Max Range 75 meters. No limits, no lockouts, no timeouts. Positional lock. Static function.

Base Skills from level 1 (Instant Cast, 3 Second Cooldown unless otherwise stated):
1 Tarnish Tracks (Clears All Threat). 30 second cooldown.

2 Fae Firestorm (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE Cone) 2 x Extra Large Burn DoT. 10 Second Duration. 30 Second Cooldown.

3 Fae Flurries (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE Cone) 2 x Extra Large Laceration DoTs. 10 Second Duration. 30 Second Cooldown.

4 Fae Flays (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE Cone) 2 x Extra Large Haemorrhage DoTs. 10 Second Duration. 30 Second Cooldown.

5 Ampule Assault (Bleed DoT) 1 x Ultra Large Bleed DoT. 3 second duration. 9 second cooldown.

6 Adulterated Assault (Poison DoT) 1 x Ultra Large Poison DoT. 3 second duration. 9 second cooldown.

7 Attuned Assault (Rupture DoT) 1 x Ultra Large Rupture DoT. 3 second duration. 9 second cooldown.

8 Ranged Rebuke (Extra Large Burst) 1 x Ultra Large Burst.

9 Ranged Reduction (Extra Large Burst) 1 x Ultra Large Burst.

10 Ranged Ravager (Extra Large Burst) 1 x Ultra Large Burst.

11 Tincture Trap (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE Cone CC) – Freeze. 1x Large Burst Damage. 30 Second cooldown.

12 Herbal Halt (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE Cone CC) – Root. 1x Large Burst Damage. 30 Second cooldown.

13 Remedy Ruse (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE Cone CC) – Knockback. 1 x large burst. 30 second cooldown.

14 Altered Armour (Single Target Debuff) – Reduce Invulnerabilities by 50% for remnant target invulnerable buff duration. Target invulnerability damage reduction reduced to 50%. 60 second cooldown.

15 Proven Perception (Scans local area, displays foes and stealthed target locations on mini map). 30 second cooldown.

16 Silent Stealth (no duration limit.) +100% Movement Speed. Out of combat only. 60 second cooldown.

17 Sharpshoot (2 x Extra Large Burst, 1 x Extra Large Bleed, 1 x Extra Large Rupture).

18 Master’s Mark (+50% Personal Damage to marked target)(No duration limit). 60 second cooldown.

19 Travel Without Trace (Conceal your presence to Creatures)(No cooldown, no duration limit). +100% Mount Speed.

20 Guarded Growth (Soft Target, Extra Large AoE)((Thorns and tangles slow opponents))(((CC))). Duration 10 seconds. Cooldown 60 seconds.

Ranger Buffs:
1. Forest Fighter: +100% Physical Damage. +100% Crit Chance. +100% Crit Hit. +50% Skill Speed. +50% Accuracy. +50% Damage to Creatures.

The stats above start at 0 from level 1 and will reach maximum at level 50.

2. Herbal Healer: Doubles the duration of HoTs and Health Potions for you and your allies. (Ultra Large AoE).

Special Class Requirements: Class Skills must operate through Reticule Soft Lock Targeting and be activated through either a bow or crossbow, dependant on which weapon is held at the time. Both Bow and Crossbow will use Reticule Soft Lock Targeting when equipped and in use by other classes. Hence the need for manual weapon swap.

Bow Weapon Roster(Instant Cast, 3 Second Cooldown unless stated otherwise)((Bow Weapon Speed 1.5. Range 60 meters.)):

1 Splinter Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x Extra Large Haemorrhage DoT, 1 x Extra Large Puncture DoT. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

2 Swift Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x Large Burst. +25% Movement Speed. 6 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

3 Sickened Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x Extra Large Burst, 1 x Extra Large Festered Wound DoT. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

4 Split Shot (Single Target Shot) 2 x Ultra Large Burst.

5 Sinful Shot (Single Target Shot) 6 x 9 small Perversion DoTs. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

6 Soaked Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x Ultra anticoagulant dot. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

7 Solid Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x Ultra Burst. Ignores 50% Resistance. 30 Second Cooldown.

8 Salvo Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x Ultra Burst. Target emits 1 x Ultra Large DoT to allies in a 10 meter radios. 10 second duration. 60 second cooldown.

9 Serrated Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x large bleed dot, 1 x large serration dot, 1 x large puncture dot. 10 second duration. 3o second cooldown.

10 Sedation Shot (CC) Single Target Mesmerise. 1 x ultra large burst. 1 x ultra large dot. 3 second duration. 30 Second cooldown.

11 Strobed Shot (CC) Single Target Disorient. 1 x ultra large burst, 1 x ultra large dot. 3 second duration. 30 Second Cooldown.

12 Silent Shot (CC) Single Target Misdirection. 1 x ultra large burst. 1 x ultra large dot. 3 second duration. 30 Second cooldown.

13 Strong Shot (CC) Single Target Knockback. 1 x ultra burst, 1 x ultra dot. 3 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

14 Straight Shot (Passes through targets in a line)((single target)). 1 x Ultra Burst per target hit. 1 x ultra large pierced dot. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown. Travels maximum range.

15 Swerved Shot (Movement Skill)((Backflip, explosive shot and positional correction)). Medium Aoe. Distance 10 meters. 1 x large burst. 1 x large shrapnel dot. 5 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

16 Sharp Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x ultra large burst. 1 x ultra large bleed dot. 1 x ultra large cut dot. 5 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

17 Skirmish Shot (CC) (Single Target Slow). 1 x ultra large burst. 1 x ultra large dot. 3 second duration. 3o second cooldown.

18 Steadied Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x large pierce dot. 1 x large personal mot. 10 second duration. 20 second cooldown.

19 Savoured Shot (Single Target Shot) 1 x large burst. +25% attack speed for you and your allies. (Ultra Large AoE). 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

20 Salutation Shot – (Single Target Shot) +100% Lifedrain from Corrupted. Instant. 1 second cooldown.

Crossbow Weapon Roster (Instant Cast, 6 second cooldown unless otherwise stated)((Crossbow Weapon Speed 3.0. Range 50 meters)):

1 Broken Bolt (Single Target Shot) 2 x extra large burst.

2 Brilliant Bolt (Single Target Shot) 2 x ultra large burst.

3 Bright Bolt (Single Target Shot)((Illuminates the area)). 1 x ultra large burst.

4 Baneful Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x Extra Large Bleed Dot. 1 x Extra Large Puncture DoT. 1 x Extra Large Wound DoT. 10 Second Duration. 30 Second cooldown.

5 Bare Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x Extra large burst. 25% ignore armour (all source).

6 Barbed Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x ultra large wound dot. 5 second duration. 20 second cooldown.

7 Bombard Bolt (Medium AoE Cone. Soft lock targeting. Knockback. CC) 1 x large burst damage. 30 second cooldown.

8 Brutal Bolt (Single Target Shot)(CC Slow) 1 x large burst damage. 30 second duration.

9 Battle Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x extra large burst. 25% resistance ignored.

10 Bad Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x Extra large perversion dot. 1 x extra large confusion dot. 1 x extra large mania dot. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown.

11 Bloom Bolt (Medium AoE Cone. Soft Lock Targeting)((CC Root)) 1 x large burst. 30 second cooldown.

12 Boost Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x large burst. Personal Crossbow Speed halved for 10 seconds. Cooldown 30 seconds.

13 Babble Bolt (Single target shot. CC disorient.) 1 x large burst. 30 second cooldown.

14 Bazoo Bolt (Medium AoE Cone. Soft lock targeting. Knockdown.) 1 x large burst damage. 30 second cooldown.

15 Bazooka Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x ultra large burst to target and the target’s allies. 10 meter radius around target. 1 x ultra large dot. 5 second duration. 20 second cooldown.

16 Bunk Bolt (Single Target Shot)((movement skill)). 1 x large burst. 1 x 10 meter kickback (Player toon bolts backwards 10 meters, does not change face).

17 Barber Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x ultra large burst. 1 x ultra large scalp dot. 1 x ultra large bleed dot. 1 x ultra large wound dot. 5 duration. 30 second duration.

18 Baggage Bolt (Medium AoE Cone. Soft Lock Targeting. CC Slow.) 1 x large burst. 30 second cooldown.

19 Bleached Bolt (Single Target Shot) 1 x large anticoagulant dot. 1 x large personal mot. 10 second duration. 2o second cooldown.

20 Boundless Bolt (Passes through targets in a line). (Single Target Shot). 1 x ultra large burst. 1 x ultra large pierced dot. 10 second duration. 30 second cooldown. Travels maximum range.

Individual buffs and debuffs will not stack. Individual buffs and debuffs can be refreshed by the collective individual owners.

I’m not sure if Dragons will have Invulnerable Status, but, if the Dragons do, I shall call upon you, Crow. All the best 😉

I've lumped the three concepts together to save Noaani all the notifications. Lol.

Have fun all,
Neurath.

CROW3

Cool. I'm going to pull into a spreadsheet so I can better parse your thoughts. Are these all your ideas on abilities or are some pulling from the wiki?

Azherae

CROW3 wrote: »

Cool. I'm going to pull into a spreadsheet so I can better parse your thoughts. Are these all your ideas on abilities or are some pulling from the wiki?

I believe that Neurath's goal is to redesign the entire system, classes, abilities, and balance. Therefore all of them are ideas on abilities. I read through it all for you, as I do with all the posts (since anything Neurath says, I check against previous design schemas from me or Compilations)

The Abilities mentioned all stand in the 'standard' column of design, and as pointed out by their creator, can't necessarily be understood outside of a design schema. I might try to codify Neurath's design schema if the ideas get enough traction, so let me know if you like what you see from skimming enough to care about doing that.

If Neurath sticks to this format, writing a parser for it is trivial, but I won't be 'doing it for fun' unless you ask @CROW3. It would take less time than a post, or I could assign it to someone else, but even then. (I have no input on these, I don't play Ranger, I don't have interest in things outside of Ashes' current design options, and I don't like the implied Combat design that these lead to).

Songcaller

Comcepts:

Shroud talk with Steven
My dnd toon.
My hunter ranger niverwinter.
Ranger in Age of Conan
Sniper in desert storm 2
Marksman in galaxies.

Will post all builds when allowed.

At work. Thanks for the feedback.
Neurath.

Songcaller

Additional concepts:

Duck Hunt - Nintendo.
Ranger BDO.

P.s. desert storm 2 is a game. I am not or was not an actual soldier. Speed typing can cause issues.

All the best,
Neurath.

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